Talk:T. D. Jakes/Archive 1

Talk
This page definitely needs updating. While there are definitely controversials subjects relating to TD Jakes (as passionately discussed below) he has many more biographical accomplishments, credible/citable news articles (sources), literary/tv/movie accomplishments, etc for his Wiki. I will get to work :) - RJT011000

Rev. Jakes is historically relevant. However, the article reads with an obvious bias. It is evident that the writer wants to link him to the ONENESS - TRINITY controversy. That is a point, but not the real article that should be posted about him. He is in other publications including encyclopedias and the articles are much more broad based, free of personal bias. (Seenitall 14:25, 10 November 2007 (UTC)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seenitall (talk • contribs)

I don't know why the computer listed my comments as not signed. Clearly they are signed. Must be a glitch. (Seenitall 14:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC))

Controversial
A very important resource to learn the differences between what T. D. Jakes teaches with regard to True Christianity and his view of Christianity which is heretical is easily accessed at the web site below. The research has been verified and validated by "The Christian Research Institue".

http://www.equip.org/free/DJ900.htm

Isn't it amazing that the page which claims to prove the teaching of T.D. Jakes is heretical has been removed. I guess believing that Jesus died on the cross and rose again on the third day for the salvation of all man is now a heretical teaching of Christianity. Or is it just something people say when they are jealous of another fellow believer?Scarlettjkr 15:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I have reverted this edit by 71.96.195.233, as the text is copyrighted. raekwon 00:43, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Actually it isn't gone. Isn't it amazing how we can call The LDS Church (Mormonism) or Jehovah's Witnesses heretics because they denie the Trinity, yet when if come to the heretic Jakes they don't want to admit it. He denies the Trinity: He believekhkhsjhkin One god with 3 manifestations. The Bible doesn't teach that; The Historic Christian Church, which is all who have been redeem by Jesus' Blood and acept his sacrificial death as a substitude for one self, and not that you HAVE to be baptize to be save like The UPC and Jakes' believe; We believe in One God who has eternally existed in 3 Persons; not 3 gods, He is One God who eternally has and will exists in 3 Persons. Here the articles

http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1LaMNJrE/b.2625875/k.B807/DJ900.htm

http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1LaMNJrE/b.2625885/k.B82F/DJ902.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.181.201.5 (talk) 17:01, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Another interesting thing is that The LDS Church (Mormon) believe That Jesus died and rose on the third day, yet they have a very different Jesus, for them Jesus is the spiritual brother of satan; so only becuase one says I believe in Jesus he died and rose on the third doesn't really make a Christian....I mean Jehovah's Witness and The LDS believe that and are they really Christians? Both organizations denie the Trinity. You know I can't believe how could Joel Osteen say he sees no difference between him and Mitt Romney who is an active temple mormon. Interesting isn't? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.181.201.5 (talk) 20:30, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Oneness Pentecostal
"which has often been accused of Oneness Pentecostal doctrines." Considering this accusation is false, does it belong in the lead without a counter? And shouldn't it be cited? -- Steven Fisher 13:58, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Probably should be cited, but so should the assertion that the accusation is false. - raekwon 14:04, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I've done both. I also feel we need additional references if the article is going to say this accusation is made often. -- Steven Fisher 14:17, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material of any kind that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous. If such material is repeatedly inserted or there are other concerns relative to this policy, report it on the living persons biographies noticeboard. There is nowhere that says the unsupported accusations have to stay until they are proved. It says they should be removed if they are not verifiable. Scarlettjkr 15:08, 23 April 2007 (UTC) JKRH

Use of "postmodern"
I think you should consider a word besides postmodern when discusses the book on J.D. Jakes. I don't think an a preacher could ever be considered postmodern because he claims to have a totalizing worldview. However, if you mean post-modern in the historical sense (ie. after the modern period) then you should at least point this out. But even in the historical sense it's kind of dodgy. Could you be more descriptive of what the book's about rather than relying on this catch-all term? --Farbotron 17:36, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Indian/Hindu origins of African-American names?!
It is funny to see some African Amercian names that seem to be having Hindu/Indian origins. Case in point is Pastor Jakes' wife's name : Serita. Could it possibly be that this name owes it's origin to the Hindu name : Sarita (or Saritha, if it were South Indian). Another example that one can think of is that of the singer Ashanti (In Hindi/Sanskrit, Ashanti means violence, because Shanti stands for Peace. Remember the chant : Om Shanti Shanti Shanti). I'd love to see someone comment on my observations. There are other examples that I have observed in the past but am unable to immediately recall.


 * Ashanti is almost certainly named after the Ashanti people of Ghana, West Africa, and has no connection (other than homophony) to the Sanskrit word. Serita is likely an Anglophone alternate spelling of the Spanish name "Sarita", a diminutive of "Sarah".  -Ben 02:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Title of his wife
Cut:


 * Many members of his congregation refer to his wife Serita as "First Lady."

It's traditional in many U.S. black churches to refer to the pastor's wife as "First Lady" - particularly if the congregation is large or the pastor's title is "Bishop". --Uncle Ed 17:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Education
I was wondering what his educational background is? I see nothing of it here or on his web site. Anyone know? --Nhoj 21:29, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

He has a bachelor, masters, and doctorate degree from Friends International Christian University (source www.thepottershouse.org), an unaccredited entity listed as a diploma mill (source wikipedia). Hope this helps.Cats77 (talk) 03:33, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * That does not help. Many private religious schools are not accredited. This is normal. You are going to have to come up with a valid source for your diploma mill claim or editors will remove it per policy. Bwalker5435 (talk) 06:24, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I can almost assure, knowing many oneness pentecostal preachers, that his is a biblical illiterate with no credentials other than the capability of starting and maintaining a small business. However, "political manuevering" in charismatic circles has evidently grown that small business. That of course required leaving behing the "holiness pentecostal" stigma.

Removed section
I have removed the following section, added by an unregistered user, due to being unsourced and violating the WP:NPOV policy:

Criticisms
Jakes is considered a heretic by many evangelicals because of his controversial views on the Trinity. While most Christians hold to the orthodox view of the Trinity (God as 3 persons in 1), Jakes holds to the heretical teaching of modalism (God as 1 person who acts in 3 modes).

Once again this point is unsubstantiated.Scarlettjkr 15:23, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Jakes has also been heavily criticized by many evangelicals for his controversial teachings of the prosperity gospel (the unbiblical view that God wants all Christians to be "happy, healthy, and wealthy") and for his luxurious lifestyle, custom, designer suits, luxury vehicles, and multi-million dollar mansion.

What is the source for saying that Christians are supposed to be broke, busted, and disgusted? Jesus came to bring life more abundantly. Look up what that means in Greek. Jesus wishes that above all else we would be in health. Look up what that means in Greek. Scarlettjkr 15:23, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Discussion pages are for discussion on how to improve the article, not about the merits (or demerits) of the subject of the article. Please keep that in mind. raekwon 19:26, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


 * This section needs to return (in a less-POV form) in order to balance the perspective of the article. That would be like me taking the criticism section off an article for, say, Kenneth Copeland. One way or another, bad idea. 208.27.125.252 21:10, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * For the first paragraph, if T.D. Jakes is really a modalist, it may deserve a mention in the article (but wihout labelling it as "heresy") - if it can be sourced and verified; regarding the second one, if other evangelists criticize him for his lifestyle, it's a matter of "pot calling the kettle black". - Mike Rosoft 07:17, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I will look for some sources for this, from his own writings. As to modalism heretical (i.e. non-orthodox), I think one might need to cite sources on this, it seems like it could be notable that one of America's best-known ministers would be outside the bounds of orthodoxy - that would definitely need sources. 「ѕʀʟ·✎」 05:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

You could use his own ministry website as a source. I noted that it refers to God as 3 PERSONALITIES (loathe to refer to God as 3 "persons"). You might also be able to email the ministry for clarification.

Copyvio
I see somebody has added the copyvio tag. I've read through the article in question, and I see that one paragraph of this article does indeed seem to violate the copyright of the article referred to. If nobody else gets around to it, I will rewrite that paragraph tonight. David Cannon (talk) 23:54, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:T.D. Jakes.jpg
Image:T.D. Jakes.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 20:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Other controversies
I think T.D.'s gotten some criticism in recent years for featuring secular musicians/speakers in his MegaFest conferences. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 18:15, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Blessing vs Knowledge
You know, there was this women by the well, she only knew she had five husbands, the one she was with now was not hers...Jesus ministered to her...she was an [OMG] adulterer. She was also...uh...a Samaratin. Funny how Jesus did not condemn her.

I don't know about any of you "ditractors" but TD Jakes happens to be my favorite preacher. I look beyond what I see and I know God is with him, for no man can do these things...except God be with him. This man is so anointed and the words he preaches pour out healing to those who listen.

Is God Schizophrenic? The true meaning of the trinity would have to imply this. To have three [distinct] personalities yet distinct in the One God. I'm a Father, a son, and a computer engineer yet I only have ONE name and I'm only ONE person. When you pray, who do you pray to..the father, the son or the Holy Ghost? Enough of the chatter. I've never heard Jakes preach about Oneness but you folks sure do like to throw stones at him...could it be...uh, the Phariseical Jealous spirit I sense. Oh surely not good Christians as yourself...right? In the Love of Christ.Wsasser (talk) 05:18, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

References tag
Currently there's a ref tag problem with the article. Can someone isolate and correct the problem? Rammer (talk) 16:55, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Beliefs
"He has been criticized for his views on homosexuality, which he describes as a "brokenness."[14] HIV/AIDS activists have publicly voiced opposition to his teachings, which they say stigmatize homosexuality.[14]"

I recommend that the above quote be stricken from the article because the article cited does not criticize Jakes but only talks about the arrest of his son for an instance of alleged lewd conduct. His views on homosexuality were not criticized in the cited article. They were just mentioned. The person who wants this quote added to the article should either post the appropriate article that supports his/her allegations or graciously remove the unsubstantiated allegation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.28.164.2 (talk) 19:12, 6 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I looked at the source article and it's about his son. Your right, his views were not the primary subject of the article. Content about living people should be cited to the strongest possible source, especially if it's controversial. It should also be on topic! I removed the paragraph. Basileias (talk) 01:55, 7 July 2010 (UTC)