Talk:Table tennis/Archive 2

Notable players
Notable players section deserves separate article. Please move section to new article. Otherwise change its subsections to bold heading so that content box wont be so long.Lara bran 04:07, 21 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I have moved to seperate article Notable table tennis players. This is to make article little shorter which otherwise had too long contents list. Now somebody can nominate article to wp:pr, as german version of this article is already an FA Lara bran 09:06, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

To add it back use this version of article. This is kept for future use Lara bran 08:16, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Physics of table tennis
This section seems to be from some half knowledged person. First of all magnus effect comes under Newtonian physics. Spin in air is very less compared to spin archived on board. Spin on board does not come under magnus effect. I think this section to be deleted. Lara bran 09:13, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Deleted section. Spin on board is due to loss of spinning momentum to gain linear momentum during collision on board, by law of conservation of momentum, if at all some physics expert haunts here. Spin on board or on bat is not related to magnus effect. But spinning everyone knows and we need not explain physics. Feel free to add this section back, but only if with some reference that relates this physics with TT. Lara bran 03:42, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

To add it back use this version of article. This is kept for future use. Lara bran 08:19, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Takkyu (卓球 in Japanese)
I am certain that for Taiwan, the word for table tennis is pronounced Dou giu, meaning literally "table ball" (I'm fluent in Taiwanese as I have lived there for quite awhile). I translated from Taiwanese to English via "han yu ping yin".


 * By "Taiwanese" do you mean the Minnan dialect (originally from Fujian) or putonghua/guoyu as spoken in Taiwan? Pinyin is usually only a romaniaztion for putonghua/guoyu.LDHan 01:51, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Taiwan's official language is Standard Mandarin. And that word (卓球) is not Chinese. Taiwan should use the same ideograms used in China (乒乓球). Takkyu is actually theromanization of the Japanese ideograms (Kanji). In fact, 卓 is a Japanese adaptation for Chinese ideograms 乒乓Tosqueira

Images of Grips
A friend and I made these images because we felt that they added clarity. We had found it difficult to understand the definitions of the grips on our original reading. We referred to the pictures and commentary on about.com as models for the pictures we made. We made our own pictures because the ones on about.com are presumably liscensed to them. We had a good camera and the time, so we thought we'd improve the article with a few photos. I think the one of the various ball sizes is particularly nice. Anyway, I believe the pictures do add to the article as I found the prose-only descriptions a little difficult to picture on my original readthough. If we performed the grips incorrectly in the photos, comment back here with some specific instructions as to how to more correctly model the grips and we'll make new photos with your corrections. Please don't just revert back. Comment here with your suggestions to improve the images and we'll oblige. Joshua Crowgey 10:17, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Um it's a bit hard to comment without making pictures ourselves. The penholder is technically correct but I have NEVER seen ANYONE holding the bat like that. I for one have been playing penholder for years, but not like that. I can only imagine how the seemiller and v-grip would look, but in my view they involve spreading fingers out on one side of the bat (i.e. well on the rubber, not on the handle). I for one am not all that happy with these pictures - even though I appreciate the gesture, the effort and the crispy quality. Could you please take them down for a while until there's a consensus about how these grips look in real life? Wit 14:17, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I looked at those images on about.com again. It does look like we flubbed the penholder a bit. I'll comment the images out but leave the links in the article. That way we can upload better pictures with the same name, then un-comment them. Joshua Crowgey 22:00, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Scoring
Referring to the Scoring section, the article states that a point is awarded to the opponent for "Hitting the ball before it has bounced on one's own side of the table" I read through the TT handbook referenced [9], I didn't see this rule. Perhaps it's derived from a rule that is there (my misunderstanding), or I overlooked it. Is this correct? Does anyone know? Joshua Crowgey 07:56, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It says in the handbook that a good serve "...after passing over or around the net assembly, touches directly the receiver's court". The serve is only finished when the ball touches the receiver's side of the table. Similarly "The ball, having been served or returned, shall be struck so that it passes over or around the net assembly and touches the opponent's court, either directly or after touching the net assembly." Finally, "...the server shall first make a good service, the receiver shall then make a good return and thereafter server and receiver alternately shall each make a good return." tells us that each player has to wait his/her turn. Wit 08:32, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, interesting. So that concept that someone 'played' the bad ball by returning it is informal and in official play, that would be considered 'obstruction.' Interesting.Joshua Crowgey 09:44, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Sport or Game?
There is a minor edit war on whether table tennis is a "sport" or a "game". I think it would be better to discuss here rather than start an edit war without any discussion.

I suggest "sport" is a more precise description of table tennis than "game". It is because, according to the article "game", sport is a kind of game, and thus table tennis is both a game and a sport. As "sport" is a kind of "game", I think the use of "sport" is more exact and it has already included the concept of "game". When you say table tennis is a sport, it already implied it is also a game. Other opinion? Salt 05:13, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It's nice that it says sport in the first line. And again in the same paragraph. But no need to hammer it down eh. Why not use the friendly word game as well from time to time? Keep the article readable. I practise TT as a sport, but I still call it a game depending on the context or on my mood :) Wit 05:35, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Agree. In fact, I was not proposing suspending the use of "game" to call table tennis in the article, but I just think it is more appropriate to call it a "sport" at the first sentence of the article. Salt 08:01, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I also think that "sport" is the most appropriate word for table tennis as "game"is a part of a sport(eg:there are several games in a sport) and "sport"sports is bigger concept.Nf.rahman (talk) 16:09, 19 December 2007 (UTC)


 * For the record: it IS a sport. Even though the Olympics are also referred to as Olympic games, they are in fact sports. The mere fact that a lot of dozy kids -- who may or may not sometimes play a table tennis variant on a camping table -- like to proclaim that what they do is table tennis and that it is a game, doesn't change the fact that table tennis is a sport like just like tennis and footie and waterpolo and whathaveyou. I think we all agree on that :-) Wit (talk) 16:19, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Ping Pong
It seems a bit bizarre not even to mention the use of "ping pong" as an alternative name in English! It should be in the lead paragraph. 81.158.3.122 13:06, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The very first line says: “Ping Pong” redirects here. For other uses, see Ping Pong (disambiguation). And it gets loads of attention in the History section. The article is long enough already without mentioning stuff twice. Wit 22:44, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Looks great
Hi, this page looks great, but I feel a mention of the leisure/non competitive side of TT could be written about? Included in this could be the 'round the table' games that are often played? (number of players with a bat running around the table hitting the ball, 3 lives, last 2 players have a mini dual and then it all starts again?). —The precedingunsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

21
I always thought it was 21 is this a new thing or has it always been that way? —Preceding unsigned comment added by139.67.195.184 (talk) 04:09, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * read the article :-) Wit 17:34, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I think in the rules of the olymipics it was always 11 but most every else was played to 21. But I do not know for sure. Azamiz —Precedingunsigned comment added by Azamiz (talk • contribs) 01:05, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Popular culture
Where's the popular culture section? See the movie Balls of Fury. —Preceding unsigned comment added by76.112.118.208 (talk) 19:10, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Can You Please Consider My Site
Hello there, My name is Ben and I'm working on a table tennis videos site at the moment. Could someone please consider it to be included in the external links,this is the addressTable Tennis Videos If you think it's good enough that would be great but if not then any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your time Kind Regards Ben —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.45.83.251 (talk) 21:42, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Irrelevant things
Guys, think about it. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. And encyclopedias only have what is necessary. So why should we polute the article with a lot of unnecessary things? First of all the most common grips are shakehand and penhold. Seemiller grip is seen only in the USA and Canada and even in those countries it is very rare. "V Grip" is in development but there are no players I know that play this style. You probably can count on your fingers the "V grip players" you know. Why should we put them, if less than 1% of the player use those grips? Those grips are irrelevant. If you wanna put them, why not "Deng Yaping Grip", "Hasegawa Grip" or even "Ping pong guys from my street grip". They are minorities more relevant than "V Grip" or "Seemiller Grip". Why should we put "recreational variations"? I believe nobody puts anything like that in football, voleyball or basketball. Why? Because it's irrelevant. Tosqueira 02:01, 8 October 2007 (UTC)


 * FTR I've already copied the Special Grips (which is special info that I like a lot) chapter to the Table tennis styles article. That article goes more in-depth and - to be honest - I agree that it fits better there than here. Also, I can't be arsed about what happens with the "recreational variations" bit. There must be thousands of variants all over the world and IMV they are all pretty irrelevant indeed. I could come up with a new one in five minutes. Wit 14:32, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Table tennis sites
I am going to remove all the links in this section as none of them seem to meet WP:EL. --NeilN 15:54, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Tosqueira, do you feel all of the sites you've put back meet WP:EL? --NeilN 16:58, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I've again cut the number of external links down to two per WP:EL. If you disagree, let's discuss.  Thanks. --NeilN 17:31, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

BOGUS SOURCE
It is among the most popular sports in the world in terms of player numbers

This quotes some random fansite webpage as a source. It is NOT a primary source, and thus should be removed. In addition superlative comparisons are trivial and worthless -- it's just the equivalent of my penis is bigger than your penis and therefore better. In addition, "popular" is a subjective term and hard to quantify. Adding "most" in front of it does nothing but further express bias. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.129.162 (talk) 20:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Why are the Chinese so good?
Amazingly, the article fails to address the prominent question of why the sport is so popular in China? China has been a closed country for much of the 20th century, so how did a Victorian after-dinner amusement lead to the Nixon/Kissinger opening of the country? I suppose the British Empire had a strong presence in Asia, and so one might guess that this was the route by which the game was introduced. But why did it become so popular? Why wasn't it perceived as "bourgeios"? Did Mao promote it? Why not soccer? Something to do with the weather? In non-communist Asia, one might guess an influence of gaming parlours and betting, but surely these would have been illegal in China? Were there community or youth programs created early on (i.e. well before the ping-pong diplomacy opening)? What's the story? linas (talk) 23:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Can you find any reliable sources about it? BTW: Don't forget to be impartial. Tosqueira (talk) 04:17, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

It's partly due to the fact that it requires very little space compared to other competitive sports. Being the most populas nation in the world, land is at a premium, especially on the coast where the majority of the population are located. Ping pong's economical space requirement made it simple to implement. Qgyu (talk) 04:08, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

shakehand strategically and technically superior?
>Today, though, there are many Asian players using the shakehand grip, as it can be viewed as strategically and technically superior.

This is an objective statement with no definitive real world support considering the top two ranked male players in the world are penholders. Qgyu (talk) 04:05, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Latest edit spree by Wilber
Where do people stand on the rewording as performed by Wilber Liang? Push vs. Slice, Lob vs. High Ball? If we decide to go with yet another change of these terms (sheesh) then these sections need a bit of cleanup. FWIW, I appreciate the work put into it.... but we need consensus, like with the racket/paddle/bat debate earlier. Wit (talk) 15:20, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Table Tennis vs. Ping Pong
Can anyone expand on the below sentence from the article or delete it if it is wrong?

People often think that table tennis and ping pong are the same game, infact they are two different games. Nightkey (talk) 15:51, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Significance in China
I am surprised to see no discussion of the sport's significance in China, nor even the Chinese characters for the sport. I looked up this article with that in mind - when and how was the sport introduced to China, when and how and why did it become so extremely popular? LordAmeth (talk) 10:50, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

→I just did the same thing!! The first mention seems to be in the Competition section where it mentions the Chinese as dominating it, but I think there should be more of a mention given it's their national sport. I think at least a paragraph or two in the History section explaining how it came to be so significant in China (if someone knows) would be appropriate. 81.100.234.166 (talk) 09:22, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism on the Page
Someone seems to like to change the country of origin from England to "United State" and upper class Victorians to upper class "Germans." I don't know the extent of the damage, as I only skimmed the pre-vandalized page a few hours ago. tharsaile (talk) 02:20, 28 August 2008 (UTC) Does anyone know why it has been the target of recent vandalism? --195.137.21.197 (talk) 16:51, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Error on the Page
Stamp is from DDR, not GDR as captioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by24.10.111.97 (talk) 22:51, 28 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Deutsche Demokratische Republik and German Democratic Republic are the same though. It's just the English equivalent. Personally I'd use DDR, but apparently the "international" (read:US) community has chosen GDR as the official abbreviation here. Wit (talk) 23:31, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

PROBLEM!!!
Length has been spelt 'lenght' on the picture about table dimensions. Also, wiff waff is a used nickname —Preceding unsignedcomment added by Tom-c-ronan (talk • contribs) 16:25, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject
If you are interested in it, please voice your support here. - Nick C(t·c) 20:54, 11 September 2008 (UTC)