Talk:Taj Mahal/Archive 1

Heading name please?
The purpose, design, and location of the Taj Mahal are all related because they all contribute to the feeling of serenity and awe when looking at it. The purpose was very special to the builder and he spent a lot of time thinking about it. In the design, everything was well thought out and everything is there for a reason. The Taj's location in India is pretty obvious because that is where he lived and ruled as king. The people he knew would be able to see it because it is where they lived.

Shah Jahan, who is shown on the left, built the Taj Mahal as a mausoleum for his second wife, Mumtaz Mahal, as a symbol of eternal love. He was the fifth Mughal emperor, coming to power in 1627. They were married in 1612. Mumtaz Mahal was his friend and advisor. She inspired him to do charitable deeds for the needy. When she died after giving birth to their fourteenth child in 1630, he was overcome by grief. When she was still alive, he made her four promises. They were that he was going to build the Taj as a tribute to her, remarry, be good to the kids, and visit her tomb on the anniversary of her death. Emperor Jahan decided that it would be the finest burial tomb ever built, because he loved her that much. To learn more about him, go to Shah Jahan. All of his subjects were also saddened by her death and helped him with this grand idea.

The Taj Mahal's overall design is magnificant and is the pride of Indian and Muslim architecture. It’s located on the bank of the Jamuna River in Agra, India. This was the old capital of the Mughal Empire in the sixteenth and eighteenth centuries and the center of the Mughal emperors until 1637. The Taj is one of the eight wonders of the world, which proves its beauty and magnificence. For example, Dr. A. Zahoor and Dr. Z. Haq, on a website that has information from the book, Taj Mahal, Mausoleum of Mumtaz Mahal stated, "Western historians have noted that its architectural beauty has never been surpassed. The Taj is the most beautiful monument built by the Mughals, the Muslim rulers of India." It is India’s most famous architectural work. A pilgrimage is even made here. Muslims and Indians alike visit and marvel at this masterpiece that is on their land. An unknown author of a website stated, "So exquisite is the workmanship that the Taj has been described as ‘having been designed by giants and finished by jewelers.’ "Crown Palace" is the meaning of Taj Mahal, which is a shortened version of "Exalted One of the Palace". This is what Mumtaz Mahal’s name means. This is the most well preserved tomb in the world. It is a very outstanding example of a great work of architecture.

The construction was very detailed. In about 1628, the construction began on the Taj. It took twenty-two years to complete, with around 20,000 people building it. The material for it was brought in form India and central Asia. 1000 elephants brought in the materials to the work site. After many different draftsmen submitted samples of drawings and he rejected all of them. He heard about an Iranian architect named Istad Usa who had also lost his wife early and was looking for a way to immortalize her. So, he picked him to design the Taj Mahal. It cost 32 million rupees. Expert craftsmen from Delhi, Quannauj, Lahore, Multan, Baghdad, Shiraz, and Bakhora were hired to help build this magnificent building. The Taj holds the grave of the husband and his wife. To see Agra, India on the map where it is located click here.

There are five major parts to this beautiful work of art. Unlike most Mughal Mausoleums, the actual tomb does not stand in the middle, but majestically at the north end above the river. The entire courtyard is made up of a main gateway that leads up to an elaborate garden on both sides of a pool that reflects the actual mausoleum. On both sides of it are other palatial buildings. On the left is a mosque and on the right is a guesthouse. In the middle stands the mausoleum, in front of the Jamuna River. Every part has a special design that serves a certain purpose.

Let’s begin our journey of the different parts with the main gateway, something that is a common feature of Muslim architecture and can be found in front of mosques and tombs all over the East. It is called a detached gateway because it is not connected to the actual tomb. This gateway is a huge doorway that opens to the south. Too many Muslims, it is seen as the "gate to paradise", the "transition point between the outer world of the senses and the inner world of the spirit", or even "the veil to a woman’s face". It is made of red sandstone and stands approximately 100 feet high and 150 feet wide. Composed of a central arch and towers attached to each of its corners, this portal also has 11 attached chhatris or umbrellas, with marble light structures. Inside the archway, there is a chamber with a vaulted roof. A heavy door made of eight different metals and studded with knobs stands at the bottom. Inside are numerous rooms and hallways so confusing that one might think they were purposely built that way. They are so confusing that for 300 years they went unused and to this day serve no known purpose. The gateway is richly adorned with calligraphy and floral arabesque made of gem stones set into the surface of white marble, which decorates the columns of the arches, another design that is common in Muslim art. Black marble inscriptions of excerpts from the Koran also decorate it. The main gateway is only the beginning of the wonderful world of Middle Eastern art.

The second thing one would come to is the elaborate garden. It is divided in half down the middle by a pool. Both halves are made up of four sections divided by stone-paved raised pathways. Within each of these eight sections are four more divisions for a total of thirty-two sections. Sixteen flowerbeds are on each side of the pool. Since the Taj was built in the middle of the Muslim Empire, this is consistent with the Islamic religion. In Islam the holiest number is four. Most of the arrangements of the Taj are based on the number four or a multiple of it. The gardens employ the interlocking arabesque concept, which is when each element sits on its own and perfectly mixes with the main structure. It also contains self-repeating geometry and symmetry. The gardens stretch from the main gateway to the foot of the Taj. Baber was the first Mughal emperor and brought Persian gardens to India and the Persian love for flowers, fruit, birds, leaves, and symmetry, which is the type of garden this is. Unlike oriental gardens, there was no intention of this Persian garden looking ‘natural’. "The landscape artists tried to translate the perfection of heaven into terrestrial terms by following certain formulas, like the Persian gardeners did." Anywhere one stands on the garden, the mausoleum can be very clearly seen. To find more information on Persian gardens go to Persian Gardens.

Next en route to the Taj is the pool that lies within the garden. Two marble canals studded with fountains and lined with cypress trees symbolize death. They cross in the center of the garden. It runs from the main gateway to the Taj. It is right in the center and directly in front of the mausoleum. The pool reflects it in its water.

Before getting to the actual mausoleum, there are two buildings on each side. To the west is the mosque. It faces Mecca and is used for prayer. It is also made of red sandstone. The floor sparkles and looks velvety red and contains 539 prayer carpets mapped out neatly in black marble. The ceiling is painted in a hypnotic design. There are also small, polished pieces of marble that act as mirrors and reflects the mausoleum. Beautiful calligraphy, the name "Allah", and quotes from the scriptures decorate the mosque. There are four towers at its corners and three domes on top. To the east is the guesthouse. In between the guesthouse and the Taj, the mosque and the Taj are other palatial buildings.

Now one comes to the actual mausoleum, the most important part of this work of art. It stands a towering 186 feet high and changes colors during the day and in the different seasons. In the morning, it looks pink; it looks white in the evening and sparkles golden in the moonlight. This is said to show the different moods of a woman or the sky. An unknown author of a website called 'Taj Mahal-A Tribute to Beauty' said, "...it is best appreciated when the architecture and its adornments are linked to the passion that inspired it. It is a 'symbol of eternal love.' " The base is made of red sandstone. The top is a large white marble terrace that contains the famous dome with the four minarets on the sides. The inside has the monument to the queen and next to it the asymmetrical monument of the emperor. The whole structure, including the dome is made of white marble. Behind the mausoleum on the north side is the Yamuna River. The whole mausoleum stands about 200 feet tall. The four minarets prayer towers contain eight cupolas, which are light structures that sit on the roof of the minarets. They are 162.5 feet in height. These "elegantly accent the central structure, framing the space like the mounting of a jewel". The inside of the Taj contains an eight-sided central chamber that holds monuments of the queen and her husband. The actual sepulchre is below the chamber. Two stories of eight inter-connected rooms surround this chamber. They were first used for mullahs who chanted the Koran and musicians played Persian melodies. The inside of the chamber is eighty feet high, and produces an echoing effect. The mausoleum is also decorated with calligraphy. The dome presents a lofty and imposing effect. It "provides a suitable and proportionate ceiling to the interior hall." The tops decorate the main structure and help other features "break skyline gracefully".

In conclusion, the Taj Mahal has a main purpose, which is to immortalize Shah Jahan’s wife eternally. The design and location help this purpose. The design, which is very complex and beautiful, helps to show how much he loved his wife. It is very grand. Everything had to be just right when building the Taj Mahal because Jahan wouldn’t have had it any other way. The location aids the purpose because that is where she lived, so the people who knew her were able to see this mausoleum that was built for her and never forget her.

End of Article

Hey Guys, im no history buff but from what i have learnt when i was travelling in India, and the books and stuff i have read on Central Asia and Persia i can repsond to the arguements put forth in the article.

when i visited the Taj Mahal last year the only story i heard on the architercture of the building was that a Persian Architect had desighned the building and in fact was planning on building it himself but in wood! Nevertheless Lets not forget that Shah Jahan himself was not an indian, but a Moghul - wich really means Persian by that time. The mongols rulers mixed so much with the Persians that they eventually became persians - the name Shah Jahan, and the Word Taj Mahal is persian... Taj meaning crown and Mahal meaning area or place of residence.

Nevertheless indian architecture had never looked anything like this. When you go to southern india thats where you see INDIAN architecture, most of the famous buildings in nothern India - besided the Qitab Minar in Delhi - have Persian / muslim influences.

also remember that in northern india until the time the British came, the indian spoke a variant of farsi. They spoke a Variant of farsi, and in a act to disunite the region the Brits reintroduced Hindu language after many many years of farsi Variant.

on another note, i noticed some talk about the aryan invasion thery down the page, its actually ridiculous that people could think that. remember that europe 7000 years ago was a dump, they lived in caves there while the Elemites, Semites, Central Asians and Egyptians where developing agriculture and housing. It is not logical for a less advanced group of people to migrate at take over an area of land inhabitated by far more developed people. Also remember the word Aryan did not even exsist or was even mentioned in europe (with the exception of Herodotus greeces beacon of truth and non-bias writing) until the late 1700's, the Persians and Indians called themselves aryan as long as their writing has been discovered - arnt we fools!

ANYWAY - i reccomend somebody research my point wich i have bought up; the chief architect being persian and wanting to first build it out of wood in persia. if not i will add it on myself.


 * You clearly are no history buff as this is nonsense from beginning to end. Shah Jahan was an Indian by any meaningful criterion at that date - he was born, grew up and died in India - his Timurid ancestor, Babur, invaded Northern India from Central Asia four generations and over a hundred years previously. Certainly the language of the Mughal Court was Persian - but then the British aristocracy spoke French for preference in the 18th century as it was the European language of high culture at the time: that doesn't make them French. The Taj Mahal is a monument commissioned by an Indian ruler, and designed by a mixture of Persian, Indian and Ottoman craftsmen. The chief architect was Persian, his assistant was a native of Agra. If you can find a credible source for the story that he wanted to build it out of wood then it could be included, but it seems highly unlikely to me as there are no documented examples of tombs (which were meant to last for centuries as memorials) being constructed out of such a perishable material: only palaces in Iran contain substantial amounts of wooden construction, and they look nothing like the Taj (I'm not even sure it would be physically possible to build a dome that size and shape out of wood). "Indian Architecture never looked anything like this" - Hello! - Northern India and the Deccan are covered with buildings that incorporate domes and iwans, dating back to the 11th century. They were built by Muslims - that doesn't mean they aren't Indian. Indian architecture encompasses a rich tapestry of styles. A building does not have to have a Gopuram to be "Indian". The Taj Mahal incorporates architectural influences from Central Asia and Iran, but it still looks very different from any buildings there: there are numerous elements in its design (the Chhatris) and its decoration (white marble and pietra dura work) which are very distinctively Indian. As for this rubbish about people in Northern India speaking "a variant of Farsi", and the British introducing a new "Hindu" language (how exactly)? This is a very imaginative variant on the hackneyed topic of "divide and rule" - it is also a bizarre linguistic fantasy. Where exactly did you get this idea from? The North Indian languages share a common linguistic family with Persian, the Indo-European. Hindi in particular has numerous words and constructions borrowed from Persian - that does not make it "a variant of farsi". There are numerous predecessors to modern Hindi (Brajbasha, the various Prakrits) which actually show far less Persian influence than what is spoken today. What has happened since independence is that a highly artificial form of Sanskritised Shodh Hindi, purged of Persian and Arabic terms has been produced which is largely used for official and academic publications (in Pakistan a similar process has seen written Urdu purged of Sanskrit terms). For what it's worth, the British when in power used what they called Hindustani as the official vernacular in North India, which is simply a slightly tidied up version of what is still spoken in the street in India and Pakistan today.

And I'm not even going to get involved in the debate over the Aryan Invasion Theory, where aggressive ideological positions have long rendered dispassionate academic judgment impossible.Sikandarji 22:43, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Because Shah Jahan was born in india does not mean that he was indian, remember that he was a mughal; mughal kings back then and anybody calling themselves mughal was really a strong mixture of persian and a bit of mongol wich eventually died out. By that time the real indians where still in norther india, but their rulers who were MUGHALS were not indian, they were basically ruled by foreighners for a while. When i went to india last year the indians themseleves on the information plaques, aswell as the tour guides did not call shah jahan a mughal, rather they called him a persian; this is what is saw in india myslelf.

second of all the taj mahal was indeed desighned, lets say internationally, it incorporated indian, persian and turkish desighns. through out history great buildings have had mixtures of influence the greatest being persepolis which strongly incoporated different desighns from across the persian kingdom. The Taj Mahal in the respect was the same, and in my eye it has a very strong persian influence in it, on reason being that the chief architect was persian - i mean the mughal rulers being muslim, had no prior experience in building muslim style buildings so shah jahan got the persians who in my eyes really founded the ground work of islamic architecture, as they did in other islaminc arts, like pottery, ceramics and carpets.

i have only heard the story about the wood replics, the tour guides at the taj mahal say it, its also written in texts wich you can buy at the sight itself. maybe you can go and research it yourself, sounds to my quite true. The persian architect had plans to build something very similiar back in persia but mostly with wood. he never acheived this, obviously.

last of all, i was not refferring to the fact that the persians and the indians held indo european ties in regards to language. Farsi of today has many arabic words in it, aswell as some european too. Sounds much, much more different than hindi aswell. My point was because of the mughal (persian) rule in northern and western india, the people there on becoming muslim adopted the farsi language of then as their own, all this changed after the british came, and there is signigicant evidence right here on the net wich shows that the brits did indeed force the northern indians to speak there original hindu again. If you ever visit those areas you will notice that the older generations do in fact know some farsi - i wonder why????

matt - v


 * If you have any real 'evidence' that the British 'forced' people in North India to 'speak there original Hindu' (sic) then I'd really like to see it - and cranky websites do not constitute 'signigicant' (sic) evidence. Muslim elites in North India spoke Persian alongside Urdu as a sign of education and high culture - it was never widespread, and they never 'adopted the farsi language of then' (sic) for everyday use. I have been to India six times, most recently for three months over the winter, and the only persons I have met there who know Persian are academics who learnt it for scholarly reasons. The idea that the Mughals were still 'foreigners' after 150 years of residence in India is narrow-minded Hindutva bullshit. And in case you hadn't noticed, they'd already been constructing monuments on a grand scale since the middle of the 16th century, over a hundred years before the Taj was commissioned. The architecture of the Taj does indeed show strong Persian influence, but having been to Iran I can assure you that it still looks very different from 17th century mausolea there. I suggest you read some books (which might help to improve your atrocious spelling), rather than relying on websites and 'information plaques' to substantiate your bizarre views. Sikandarji 08:22, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I can see that that you are on cranky indian. You have some extreme issues on the subject indian nationalism and identity.

Mate, you are correct to say that scholars spoke Fars; but dont forget the older generation. Those who went to school, and had a basic education. They spoke farsi too, which comes to my point that for a period the northern indians officially, and on local citizens scale spoke farsi. The English Changed this, they enforced Hindu to be taught once more in Nothern Indian schools and pressured officials to adopt hindu in their diplomatic work. The english are probably one of the most sneeaky nations on this planet, how come this revelation suprises and insults you, what benefit do i get from advocating this truth.

Anyways, i have nothing more to say on the Taj Mahals influences, you yourself pointed out that it had strong persian influence ( mainly because shah jahan was persian) and i agree with the fact that it has a distinct indian style, as some aspects of the the taj mahal are unique and mirrored to later mughal projects in india.

still you cannot accept that the mughals were mostly persian, as they started off Mongolian, their culture was weak and they absorbed persian culture and soceity. They Married persian girls, continiously. In fact Shah Jahans wife who he built the Taj Mahal for was a persian Princess, now imagine their son, yet again marries another Persian Princess, as you can see the Persian genes literally take over, from being half-half, to 3/4 - 1/4 and so on; by the end all trace of mongol was eradicated.

but i have not found much evedince on the net regarding the wood desighn of the taj mahal. The story i heard sounded very plausible, that the chief architect - Muhammad Isa Khan - had originally planned something very similiar to the Taj Mahal but to be built mostly of wood. This was the recurring story i heard in india, and in the tourist information pamphlets at the actual site.


 * As you might have guessed from my inverted commas (they are intended to communicate sarcasm) there is no such language as 'Hindu'. There is the Khariboli dialect of Delhi, from which both classical Hindi and Urdu are derived, via the 'Hindvi' or 'Rekhta' which poets such as Mir used to describe the vernacular language in which they wrote, there is Braj, used by religious poets such as Tulsi Das. All these literary languages co-existed with Persian in North India in the 18th century. Persian was, however, confined to a tiny educated elite, much as French was in 18th century Britain. 'A basic education' did not included being taught Persian, as you appear to think, and in any case, do you have any idea just how low literacy levels were in India? Only a small fraction of the population went to school, only an even smaller proportion of those learned Persian, and they learnt it as a foreign language. There has NEVER been a period when ordinary North Indians spoke Persian. Your ignorance of Indian linguistics is staggering, but your ignorance of British linguistic policy even greater. Until 1830 the East India Company used Persian for official correspondence, as the Mughals had done before them. Thereafter they switched to English, but with a lower bureaucracy working in the vernacular, which meant Urdu, or Hindustani as the British often called it, written in the arabic script. The widespread introduction of Devanagari in schools and for official purposes in North India only happened after Independence. I have no brief for the British, whose linguistic policy did have some curious effects in India, but in the opposite manner to that which you suggest, as they continued to use the arabic script long after the decline of Muslim political power, because they considered it to be prestigious. Perhaps you don't actually realise that Persian and Urdu are separate languages? Nothing would surprise me as you seem to have some truly bizarre ideas.Sikandarji 08:52, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Bad Form: "The Taj" for the Taj Mahal
I'm going to correct all instances of "the Taj" being used to mean the Taj Mahal in this article. In no dictionary which I consulted is "Taj" or "the Taj" listed as an entry meaning the Taj Mahal.

http://www.onelook.com/?w=Taj

http://www.onelook.com/?w=the+Taj

A Google search using *"the Taj" -Mahal* also doesn't seem to support the notion that "the Taj" is a very common phrase used to refer to the Taj Mahal:

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=%22the+Taj%22&num=100&as_eq=Mahal&as_qdr=all

As well, no other encyclopedia that I consulted refers to the Taj Mahal as "the Taj." This is simply bad form, and is at best slang.

This article repeatedly uses "the Taj" to refer to the Taj Mahal. That would be akin to repeatedly referring to a U.S. president as "the Prez" in an encyclopedia article.

I'm also going to delete the passage "The Taj (as it is often called)" in this article. Even if true (which I do not believe is the case, at least on a relative basis), I don't see how it's necessary for an encyclopedia entry to point this out, any more than noting that presidents are often called "the Prez." There's endless amounts of slang for all manner of things, and unless something is popularly known by its slang terms (such as with sexual terminology), or including a slang term helps to elucidate the subject at hand, then pointing out such slang seems superfluous for an encyclopedia article.

As I mentioned above, I do not even believe that "the Taj" is a common term for the Taj Mahal, at least relative to the use of the term "Taj Mahal" itself. Contrast this with, say, the use of "blow job" for fellatio--the former term is better-known than the latter. A number of dictionaries list "blow job," but none I consulted list "Taj" or "the Taj" as meaning the Taj Mahal. 209.208.77.92 16:21, 8 May 2006 (UTC)