Talk:Tajik alphabet

Aligned samples
From


 * "Игор Иванов, раиси шурои амнияти миллии Русия дар Техрон бо Алии Лоричони музокиркунандаи аслии хастаии Эрон, дар бораи барномаи хастаии бахсбарангези ин кишвар дидор ва гуфтугу кардааст"
 * "ايگور ايوانف، رييس شورای امنيت ملی روسيه، در تهران با علی لاريجانی، مذاکره کننده اصلی هسته ای ايران، درباره برنامه هسته ای بحث انگيز اين کشور ديدار و گفتگو کرده است."

Although it looks like the BBC isn't using the special characters in the alphabet, "хастаии" should almost certainly be "ҳастаии". - FrancisTyers 20:27, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I wrote a crappy transliterator, you can find it here. - FrancisTyers 20:27, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Dates
In April 1928, the Decree on Romanization was adopted and published; it worked until 1940, when Cyrillic letters replaced the Latin alphabet. See, for instance, Gesu Jahangiri, “The premises for the construction of a Tajik National Identity,” pp.14–41 and M. Bazarov, “Sovetskaya religioznaya politika v Sredney Azii 1918-1930gg.,” in Etnicheskie i regionalnie konflikti v Evrazii (Moskva: Ves Mir, 1997), pp. 46–72.

Khudonazar, Anaita (2004) The Other

The transliteration of Central Asian language into a uniform and linguistically precise Latin orthography is a vexed problem. From 1917 to 1941 the Soviets changed Turkic and Tajik scripts three times: they simplified the traditional Perso-Arabic script in 1923, switched to a Latin-based alphabet in 1927-1930 and finally adopted a Cyrillic-based alphabet in 1941.

Keller, Shoshana (2001) To Moscow, Not Mecca: The Soviet Campaign Against Islam in Central Asia, 1917-1941

Opinion piece
Many optimists in the 1990s believed that the Arabic alphabet would make a comeback to Tajikistan in some ten or fifteen years. Debates were in progress focusing on the great time and resources it would take. Champions of the Arabic alphabet laid special emphasis on the fact that once Tajik scientific, historical and religious literature was wholly written in Arabic the transition to the Arabic alphabet would be vital, otherwise part of the culture would be irretrievably lost. Also, there were quite a lot of skeptics and pessimists maintaining that the Arabic alphabet was too difficult to learn. Even now there appear from time to time articles by prominent figures flatly opposing the adoption of the Arabic alphabet. For example, Bozor Sobir, a notable Tajik poet who has stayed in the USA for the past eight years, has recently written that it would be a great mistake of the Tajiks to adopt the Arabic alphabet as it is very difficult and not everyone can master it. In the early 1990s, though, such protests were disregarded, and the Arabic alphabet was being gradually introduced into schools along with Persian that was taught as a special discipline. Books by Tajik and Iranian authors using the Tajik Arabic alphabet came to be printed. All previous billboards, announcements and street name plates were removed and replaced with those written in the Arabic alphabet. Newspapers and television began to give lessons in the Persian language and Arabic writing. But, still, there was one important aspect the reformers neglected. In 1992 and in the years that followed, when opposition led by the Islamic Party of Revival was forced to emigrate from Tajikistan, the introduction of the Arabic alphabet slowed down. People didn’t risk keeping books based on the Arabic alphabet at home because of rumors that such literature would be confiscated and the owners arrested. So, books based on the Arabic alphabet were being destroyed again – just as they were after the October Revolution. The Arabic alphabet, too, began to disappear from billboards, announcements, street signs and magazines. In 1999, a parliament session, on the initiative of the deputies, removed the word “Farsi” from the name of the law on the state language. However, only time will show whether a parliament resolution can suppress an alphabet that came to us, without the permission of the reigning Shah, about one thousand, four hundred years ago.

http://www.cimera.org/files/camel/en/27e/MICA27E-Siddikzoda.pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/20060613195726/http://www.cimera.org/files/camel/en/27e/MICA27E-Siddikzoda.pdf

Sukhail Siddikzoda "TAJIK LANGUAGE: FARSI OR NOT FARSI?" Media Insight Central Asia # 27, August 2002

Images
I would welcome different images, the current ones appear to clash somewhat (at least it so appears to me). - FrancisTyers 13:58, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Infobox
I'm not sure if the infobox (Persian language really belongs here, especially in its incomplete form. - FrancisTyers · 21:40, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Looking much better now... - FrancisTyers · 13:53, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Question about the Latin alphabet
I'm a little confused about the representation of in the Latin alphabet. Assuming the name of the language is pronounced, the lead suggests this is spelled toǧikī. But the section on the Latin alphabet indicates that ç is used for and makes no mention of a letter ǧ at all. Furthermore, if the Latin alphabet is supposed to be parallel to the Turkic languages, the values of c and ç are reversed: in Turkish, c is and ç is. Are they really reversed in Tajik, or is this just a mistake in the article? User:Angr 15:47, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


 * In all the references I can find (that is Tajik Persian Reference Grammar), c is and ç is, you're right though, the Azeri alphabet is also reversed. Also note, if you look at the image, Tajikistan is spelt toçikston. The lead needs to be fixed, I'll do that. - FrancisTyers · 16:05, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, the Azeri alphabet was reversed from 1929-39. Since 1992, they switched them and now use c and ç with the same values as Turkish. User:Angr 16:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Aha, that may explain it. The Latin alphabet is no longer in use today, indeed hasn't been in use since the adoption of Cyrillic. Nowadays only the Cyrillic and Arabic are in use. - FrancisTyers · 16:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Really? That definitely needs to be made clearer in the article. User:Angr 16:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Done. - FrancisTyers · 16:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Transliteration of Cyrillic
Would it be worth merging Transliteration of Tajik Cyrillic into this article? Which transliteration system is being used at the bottom of the "Samples" section? Is there one transliteration system that has any sort of official approval? User:Angr 16:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I think that the Transliteration deserves its own article. For one, the table is pretty wide anyway, and also many other articles have separate Transliteration ones, e.g. Category:Romanization. I'm not aware of a single official standard, although there may be one. With regard to the transliteration in the samples section I'm using the IBM transform demo. This may or may not be appropriate, but I was trying to draw a distinction between the Cyrillic (with vowels) and the Arabic (without). Compare this with the omniglot page where the transliteration of Arabic is given with vowels.


 * I'm not entirely sure this is worth doing, but I think it provides a useful example to the note in the history section, "The Perso-Arabic alphabet in use does not provide sufficient letters for representing the vowel system of Tajik." - FrancisTyers · 16:11, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

GA Review
There are six main GA criteria, all of which I think this article passes: Congratulations! Adam Cuerden talk 15:02, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Well-written: Easy and quick read, despite all the information therein. Clear pass.
 * 2) Accurate and verifiable - I'm presuming so. Certainly it's heavily referenced, which makes it verifiable.
 * 3) Broad in coverage: Check. One thing, however: A bit more history of Tajikistan would be useful to put things in context, but doesn't seem that necessary.
 * 4) NPOV: Check
 * 5) Stable: Check
 * 6) Images (if relevant): Check. And worthy of praise for their variety and clever selection.


 * Thanks :) - Francis Tyers · 18:41, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

The ӯ vowel
The Writings Systems of the World give [o] for the value of ӯ not [ø], also they have the uvular fricatives not velar fricatives. One final difference is the value of ӣ as [i], not [ij] azalea_pomp


 * Hmm, I will check this again this weekend. I have the following publications: Tajik Persian Reference Grammar, Short Sketch of Tajik Grammar and Comrie, B. The World's Major Languages (which discusses Tajik vowel system in the section on Persian). - Francis Tyers · 09:51, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

"У̊у̊" with a ring should have been designed to represent the back majhul vowel and should replace "Ӯӯ" in the alphabet. «ду̊ст», «му̊ҳтарам» See "Ůů" here:

Browse Tajik sites in Latin orthography
I wrote a thing to do that here. I won't add a link to the main article as it is conflict of interest. - Francis Tyers · 12:49, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Politics and alphabet reform in tajikistan




































http://books.google.com/books?id=sgW_HEcULMYC&pg=PA219&dq=tajikistan+alphabet+struggle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9_6nUJOlO5KQ0QGV_4D4Cw&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=tajikistan%20alphabet%20struggle&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=qkKOpAYG7zMC&pg=PA274&dq=tajikistan+alphabet+struggle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9_6nUJOlO5KQ0QGV_4D4Cw&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=tajikistan%20alphabet%20struggle&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=BrM_Ms9OVsEC&pg=PA33&dq=central+asia+alphabet+struggle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jwCoULaNN42M0QHWtYGwDA&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=central%20asia%20alphabet%20struggle&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=weYQMv2RqCgC&pg=PA186&dq=tajikistan+alphabet+struggle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9_6nUJOlO5KQ0QGV_4D4Cw&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=tajikistan%20alphabet%20struggle&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=c5kXyj82xfQC&pg=PA76&dq=tajikistan+alphabet+struggle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9_6nUJOlO5KQ0QGV_4D4Cw&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=tajikistan%20alphabet%20struggle&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=j894miuOqc4C&pg=PA656&dq=tajikistan+alphabet+struggle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9_6nUJOlO5KQ0QGV_4D4Cw&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=tajikistan%20alphabet%20struggle&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=arF2f10EQYUC&pg=PA125&dq=tajikistan+alphabet+struggle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9_6nUJOlO5KQ0QGV_4D4Cw&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=tajikistan%20alphabet%20struggle&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=9KgjQQgMC-cC&pg=PA132&dq=central+asia+alphabet+struggle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=swGoUPyMEOTD0QHynICADg&ved=0CC8Q6AEwADgU#v=onepage&q=central%20asia%20alphabet%20struggle&f=false

Jerezembel (talk) 21:31, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Iran, turkey, and russian alphabet competition
http://books.google.com/books?id=qkKOpAYG7zMC&pg=PA274&dq=Tajikistan+iran+alphabet+struggle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5T65UPGvIpS60AH20YCICw&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Tajikistan%20iran%20alphabet%20struggle&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=VuYDPDHttQkC&pg=PA172&dq=Tajikistan+iran+alphabet+struggle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5T65UPGvIpS60AH20YCICw&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Tajikistan%20iran%20alphabet%20struggle&f=false

Page 137

http://books.google.com/books?id=chlpAAAAMAAJ&q=Tajikistan+iran+alphabet+struggle&dq=Tajikistan+iran+alphabet+struggle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zUC5UODnDIrK0AGJ5IC4DQ&ved=0CC8Q6AEwADgU

Page 47

http://books.google.com/books?ei=5T65UPGvIpS60AH20YCICw&id=xakTAQAAIAAJ&dq=Tajikistan+iran+alphabet+struggle&q=+alphabet+struggle#search_anchor

Page 8

http://books.google.com/books?ei=5T65UPGvIpS60AH20YCICw&id=cE8dAQAAMAAJ&dq=Tajikistan+iran+alphabet+struggle&q=+alphabet+struggle#search_anchor

Page 22

http://books.google.com/books?ei=QD-5UOakAeLl0gHBpYHQDQ&id=yo7wAAAAMAAJ&dq=Tajikistan+iran+alphabet+struggle&q=+alphabet+struggle#search_anchor

Page 10

http://books.google.com/books?ei=QD-5UOakAeLl0gHBpYHQDQ&id=QswKAQAAMAAJ&dq=Tajikistan+iran+alphabet+struggle&q=++alphabet+struggle#search_anchor

Page 416

http://books.google.com/books?ei=QD-5UOakAeLl0gHBpYHQDQ&id=PUotAQAAMAAJ&dq=Tajikistan+iran+alphabet+struggle&q=+iran+alphabet+replaced#search_anchor

Page 785

http://books.google.com/books?ei=QD-5UOakAeLl0gHBpYHQDQ&id=ZLhZAAAAYAAJ&dq=Tajikistan+iran+alphabet+struggle&q=+alphabets+non+literary#search_anchor

History of alphabet reform and language regulation in tajikistan:

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/tajikistan-05-dictionaries-and-encyclopedias

Rajmaan (talk) 05:53, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Braille
If anyone can confirm Tajik Braille, please notify us on that talk page. — kwami (talk) 03:54, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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 * Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.cimera.org/files/camel/en/27e/MICA27E-Siddikzoda.pdf

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Why ӣ?
Could something more be said about ӣ? The article on the letter itself says that it's used to represent /i/ at the end of a word. This article implies (but doesn't state directly) that it's used to represent stressed /i/. Which is true, or is /i/ always stressed at the end of a word, and only there? Either way, why was it deemed necessary? Other vowels don't have special letters for the end of a word or when stressed, so why does /i/ need a separate letter?


 * I have been reading up on these things lately because I'm somewhat interested in learning Persian, but I haven't done so yet and might never do, so this is more or less guesswork and deduction. Anyway …


 * As far as I understand it, stress falls more or less regularly on the final syllable of most words. Therefore, in words ending in /i/ (of which there are a lot!), the /i/ will normally be stressed. In the orthography used in Tajikistan, /i/ is regularly expressed by 'и'. However, the likewise very, very frequent ezafe, an unstressed /i/-sound, is written as a letter 'и' attached to the end of the word. As a consequence, words (understood here loosely as uninterrupted groups of letters between spaces or punctuation) can end in both stressed and unstressed /i/, both very frequent. Under these circumstances, it seems rather useful to have some light-weight orthographic convention to differentiate. Hence the 'ӣ' for stressed /i/, leaving plain 'и' for unstressed ezafe /i/. This seems to be a rather clever solution: For the writer, adding a little macron here and there is a very small burden, especially as it requires absolutely no analysis of the underlying grammatical construction ('add macron, if stressed; don't, if not'). And the reader benefits because it is immediately clear how to pronounce the word, without any need of context look-ahead or grammatical analysis.


 * Such a convention isn't required for any other vowel because the ezafe is always /i/ and no other vowel. 31.16.104.116 (talk) 11:58, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

A hyphen should be added when writing the ezafe, '-и', and "Ӣӣ" should be eliminated from the alphabet. «забон-и тоҷики» (A hyphen should also be added before the enclitics '-у' and '-ро'.)

ʙ as lowercase of Latin-script B
The letter ʙ that was given in the table before is not CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER VE (U+0432, в); it is LATIN LETTER SMALL CAPITAL B (U+0299). It appears that the latter is (sometimes?) used in Tajik Latin alphabet in place of b. See the photograph of a newspaper written in the Tajik Latin alphabet on the right (also shown in the article), where ʙoraji mukofotonidan ʙaroji appears near the top left. — Eru·tuon 22:21, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

In that case it should be listed along with regular b. I will add it to the table along with regular lowercase b. Thanks for letting me know! OmegaGmaster (talk) 23:02, 28 June 2018 (UTC)