Talk:Takeoff (rapper)

Protected edit request on 9 January 2018
Rapper Kirsnick Ball started making beats and developing rhythms in the seventh grade but didn't start taking music seriously until 2011. When he, alongside his uncle, Quavious Marshall, and Marshall's cousin, Kiari Kendrell Cephus, formed the rap group Migos. With Migos, he has collaborated with top artists such as R. Kelly, Gucci Mane, Busta Rhymes, Riff Raff, and more. Stanley Preschlack1 (talk) 20:36, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
 * see deletion discussion above. — xaosflux  Talk 21:36, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Please note that neither of those sources are reliable for biographical information. --Ronz (talk) 18:49, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Since last AfD
I'm not sure something has changed since Articles for deletion/Takeoff (rapper). Is being featured on a single that debuted/peaked at 65 on Hot 100 enough? The Delta episode doesn't seem encyclopedic. CC:. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 17:01, 11 April 2018 (UTC)


 * If a musician has a nationally charting single then he's notable. This reference is sufficient. Binksternet (talk) 17:46, 11 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Yes, something has changed. The previous article was more generally about Migos. This new article is focussed on Takeoff. I think that's an important factor. Sadly, there are not that much sources reporting on Takeoff apart from Migos, and I acknowledge I don't have a strong case to support keeping it, but nonetheless I think the current article is a keeper :). Amin (Talk) 05:20, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Takeoff or no Takeoff?
This page keeps constantly deleted and recreated again. Should we just keep this page right now or delete it until further notice?

And just my opinion, he’s the best rapper on Migos. Kevon kevono (talk) 04:12, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Unless you can demonstrate that he is notable outside of his participation in Migos, this article should redirect there. —Compassionate727 (T·C) 13:51, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

IThis page is constantly spelling his name wrong. It’s Kirsnick not Kirshnik. Caylaratliff (talk) 18:58, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Takeoff the goat Don quaver (talk) 15:54, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

The Last Rocket and Culture III ( and maybe his feature with Mustard on Pure Water)
Someone add something on Culture III and HIS ALBUM The Last Rocket. The features in it (most obvious Quavo and Daytona Foxx) Lilgundog (talk) 07:04, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Reports of death
A number of users are adding that Takeoff has reportedly died. Per WP:BLP we should wait until this is confirmed in reliable sources before adding it to the article. All that has been provided so far is a report that there are "rumours" that he has been shot - this is not sufficient. WJ94 (talk) 10:15, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Worth putting a Timing-related message?
Nobody knows if he's dead or not. There is a video circulating on social medias but it's clearly not enough to be considered as a source. Is it worth putting a Template:Recent death or a Template:Current person ? Zaskoki1 (talk) 10:16, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Source on death?
https://iharare.com/migos-rapper-takeoff-shot-dead-at-club-over-dice-game/ This article says he was "reportedly" shot - hence it is not a valid source? ButterCashier (talk) 10:18, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Additional source: http://onsmash.com/music/takeoff-shot-killed-in-houston-quavo-also-shot/ The sources tend to say "unconfirmed" and "rumoured", "reportedly", "allegedly".


 * As you say, that first source only says he was "reportedly" shot and references "unconfirmed reports". The second seems a bit more solid but still seems to be relying on rumours - it explicitly says "We’re not investigators nor will we make any theories of what happened" and then directly people to Tweets about the alleged incident. WJ94 (talk) 10:30, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/entertainment/celebrity/us-rapper-takeoff-28-shot-dead-in-houston-texas/news-story/a6bf2350ca04f4ed563aa0a82ece3323 - "according to local reports" ButterCashier (talk) 10:43, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Source needed before confirming deatb
We should wait until a site like TMZ or an official Migos/Migos’ label’s outlet confirms anything R BJ0 (talk) 10:48, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

death* of course R BJ0 (talk) 10:48, 1 November 2022 (UTC)


 * ✅ Done by Ollyhinge11. ButterCashier (talk) 11:04, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 November 2022
Bathsheba19 (talk) 11:00, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

I know the whole thing as I was present at the scene, therefore my information is credible Bathsheba19 (talk) 11:00, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:36, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

reference
I have an article from TMZ confirming his death.

https://www.tmz.com/2022/11/01/migos-takeoff-dead-dies-shot-houston-quavo-migos/ ~ Trayfel  (u • t • c) 11:04, 1 November 2022 (UTC)


 * When TMZ is good, they're good. But they're also notoriously a trash fire, so mostly they're not - David Gerard (talk) 11:08, 1 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Understandable. I'll wait for a more reliable and trustworthy news outlet. ~ Trayfel  (u • t • c) 11:23, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Protection
This is a trash fire and we should be able to restrain ourselves more. I've put extended-confirmed on this for one day, which should be enough to get some idea what's going on here. Hopefully we won't need to go fully admin-only locked in that time (since this is, until confirmed, a BLP). Please post what information we have here on the talk page - David Gerard (talk) 11:06, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for this . To my mind we still don't have a reliable source for his death, given that everything so far refers to rumours or local reports. I'm happy to be proven wrong but, since there is not deadline, I'd suggest we remove mention of his death unless/until we have a reliable source that confirms (not just confirms that there are rumours/reports of) his death. WJ94 (talk) 11:15, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I'd concur that's a good approach. The TMZ report looks like it's true, but I'm reluctant to deadlist someone purely on TMZ. As the protecting admin I'm also reluctant to do substantive edits myself :-) - David Gerard (talk) 11:17, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks - I hadn't seen that one. The TMZ piece is the first one which is claiming that the death is confirmed, which is good. I'm not super familiar with music/entertainment related reliable sources, so I just want to check the reliability of TMZ. I'm asking because it is listed at WP:RSP where it mentions that most editors consider TMZ a low-quality source and prefer more reliable sources when available - although the last relevant discussion is listed as being from 2016. Should we trust this if (for the moment) it is the only source claiming the death is reported? (To clarify, I'm more than happy to go with it, so long as there's a general consensus that TMZ is reliable.) WJ94 (talk) 11:34, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Looks like a Guardian source has been added, so I don't think we need to worry about TMZ sources at the moment. Blue Edits (talk) 11:39, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I saw that - my only concern is that the Guardian source is just reporting the TMZ story (Takeoff, a member of Migos with the rappers Quavo and Offset, has died, TMZ reports). WJ94 (talk) 11:42, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * For reference, here's the Guardian source: . WJ94 (talk) 11:43, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Also AP - David Gerard (talk) 14:32, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 November 2022
Also known at The Rocket. 2600:1700:1E90:6930:1803:D724:CBC:33A7 (talk) 13:12, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * ❌ Please offer a reliable source to support this addition. 331dot (talk) 13:38, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Lack of detail on the SA allegations
Why does the SA allegations paragraph only mention that the DA's office won't file criminal charges ? It sounds like there is information about those allegations that could be added in the paragraph, as right now it is awfuly empty. 21stCenturySloth (talk) 14:07, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

The Battle in the Bowling Alley citation is spurious
This should probably be replaced with an actual source — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.38.188.84 (talk) 14:35, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

name throughout article
I think we should be using Ball (his last name) rather than Takeoff throughout the article. Opinions?  nableezy  - 16:00, 1 November 2022 (UTC)


 * No need, he was normally known as Takeoff, and it would be confusing to readers. 99.47.64.52 (talk) 17:33, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thats fine, and things like the NYT article on his death refer to him primarily as Takeoff, but looking at articles like Tupac Shakur and The Notorious B.I.G. they usually give the stage name in the lead, and in Biggie's case the article is titled as such, but primarily use the last name throughout when referring to the person.  nableezy  - 17:41, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The guideline at WP:LASTNAME says we should use the stage name after giving the birth name. That's because "Takeoff" is much more common in the media than Ball. Binksternet (talk) 18:01, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Fair enough,  nableezy  - 18:04, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Do it look like I was left off “Bad & Boujee”?
Joe Budden didn’t leave because of takeoff’s response. Joe left because Dj Akademiks told them that they were some of their favorite rappers. Don’t create a false narrative. 2600:1702:45D0:93D0:8456:8562:9E47:558B (talk) 01:12, 2 November 2022 (UTC)


 * So what do you want? Timothytyy (talk) 01:16, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Shift allegations of SA to "Legal Issues" section
As of April 2, 2021, it was reported that the Los Angeles District Attorney's office would not be filing criminal charges against Takeoff due to insufficient evidence. The civil suit court proceedings are still in progress. Adding the allegations to the lead makes him look like he was charged, when that is not the case. gtgamer79   (talk)  02:40, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The lead specifies that he was named in a civil case, not a criminal complaint. So no, that does not make it look like he was charged.  nableezy  - 03:34, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 November 2022
What does his final Instagram story having a Playboi Carti song in it have to do with his death? Saucenoappetizer (talk) 03:42, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * doesnt, removed.  nableezy  - 04:36, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 November 2022 (2)
Remove extra "of" in first paragraph Cpcmoment (talk) 08:11, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Blue Edits (talk) 08:59, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * . gtgamer79   (talk)  01:16, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Name
His name is spelled Kirsnick not Kirshnik Mzleilanib82 (talk) 10:10, 2 November 2022 (UTC)


 * I wanted to bring this up as well. Multiple reputable sources such as the Associated Press and the New York Times refer to him with the name of "Kirsnick Khari Ball" when announcing his death. This name was also supposedly used by his manager when announcing his death as reported by the New York Post. Also reported this way by the BBC. SVS Shadow (talk) 16:28, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Binksternet Why AllMusic should be considered as a better reference and principal source for its name rather than his own label Quality Control Music, or BMI? Or even news agencies like Associated Press or New York Times? Lilgreg97one (talk) 22:35, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * BMI lists his name in their database but there is no human author making a comment about why his name is spelled that way in the songwriting credits. AllMusic at least has an author. Takeoff's name was reported as Kirshnik by quite a few publications in 2014, 2015—fairly early in his career. For instance, XXL wrote his name as Kirshnik in 2015, and both XXL and The Fader said the same thing in 2014. AllMusic spelled his name Kirshnik in 2015. The man could have spelled his name creatively as Kirsnick just for his writing credits, or everybody spelling it Kirshnik could have gotten his name wrong from the start. We don't know. Nobody out there is interpreting the two spellings and telling us which one has more authority. Until they do, I'm going with WP:SECONDARY sources that have human authors. Binksternet (talk) 23:18, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Death Timeline CST or CDT?
Everyone messes this up but it’s important. Houston still observed CDT on November 1. 2605:A601:AAEA:8100:4B7:1EBA:BDCE:7D7F (talk) 16:50, 2 November 2022 (UTC)


 * gtgamer79  (talk)  01:20, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * gtgamer79  (talk)  01:20, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 November 2022
Change "October 2nd" in reactions to death to November 2nd, as it is the incorrect date. 2600:4040:2D6C:FE00:F594:8AE7:CED0:1695 (talk) 17:32, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done Cannolis (talk) 18:19, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * . gtgamer79   (talk)  01:16, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Remove the Lawsuits
Please remove the lawsuits and anything that tries to paint this man in a negative light. That is not his legacy nor should his friends, family and loved ones have to reminded of a past that does not define him. Any legal issues are private and there were no charges so the section is irrelevant to he was and will be as he lives on in the hearts and minds of many. Have some decency to remove it please. 47.186.200.112 (talk) 18:20, 2 November 2022 (UTC)


 * ❌ - Wikipedia maintains a neutral point of view, which is a non-negotiable policy. The article must list all facts, the good and the bad, even if some people do not like it. --Harobouri T • C (he/him) 21:38, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * ans=yes The Los Angeles District Attorney's office would not be filing criminal charges against Takeoff due to insufficient evidence, therefore it is unsittable to be in the lead.  gtgamer79   (talk)  01:11, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * apologies for the error, I meant *unsuitable  gtgamer79   (talk)  01:11, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, I'd like to point out that this section and this other section published by this IP user is referring to the seperate sections within the article and not the lead section. Thanks, Harbouri : Let's talk! (This is a legitimate alternative account for Harobouri.) 15:39, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Remove the Legal Issues
There were no charges brought against and this section is there only to tarnish his name and legacy. 47.186.200.112 (talk) 18:37, 2 November 2022 (UTC)


 * ❌ - Wikipedia maintains a neutral point of view, which requires all the facts, good and bad, to be mentioned. Wikipedia does not attempt to tarnish the reputation of the subjects, as that would violate the libel policy, and everything mentioned must be verifiable, which is why legal issues is included within the article. --Harobouri T • C (he/him) 21:42, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Done - The Los Angeles District Attorney's office would not be filing criminal charges against Takeoff due to insufficient evidence, therefore it is unsittable to be in the lead. gtgamer79   (talk)  01:09, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * apologies for the error, I meant *unsuitable gtgamer79   (talk)  01:12, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 November 2022
Kirsnick Ball 2600:1700:C170:6750:79E3:1242:8D96:C290 (talk) 04:21, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

His name is spelled Kirsnick not Kirshnik. It is referenced on is music on the music streaming platform Apple Music and many others. 2600:1700:C170:6750:79E3:1242:8D96:C290 (talk) 04:23, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * ❌. Seven years, ago, Hot New Hip-hop gave his name as Kirshnik Ball. AllMusic says Kirshnik Khari Ball. Other sources show the same spelling. These WP:SECONDARY sources will not disappear simply because his name is listed as Kirsnick Khari Ball in writing credits. The contradiction should be discussed in the article—Wikipedia should not try to decide which spelling is correct. Binksternet (talk) 04:47, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Accidental deaths?
I want to put this page in the accidental deaths category because he was killed by a stray bullet. The article is already in one category about accidents.MagicatthemovieS (talk)MagicatthemovieS
 * MagicatthemovieS, it appears that the corner's report is stating the cause of death is "homicide" which seems to suggest it was not a stray bullet that killed him. Do you have citations to support your theory? See https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/03/entertainment/takeoff-autopsy-offset & https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/01/arts/music/takeoff-migos-dead.html. Jurisdicta (talk) 03:05, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Incorrect Information
In the sentence: "Blogger DJ Akademiks held a three-hour stream in honor of Takeoff, in which he analyzed videos from the moment of the murder of Kershnik, and also called for fighting the ideology of violence in hip-hop, including stop imitating rappers YNW Melly and Tay-K, who were convicted of murder."

Kirshnik is misspelled and incorrectly states that YNW Melly has been convicted of murder, he is currently awaiting trial. 38.101.63.226 (talk) 19:14, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Takeoff was killed at approximately 2:31AM CST. The 911 call was placed at exactly 2:34AM CST. So the article is incorrect where it says he passed at exactly 2:40AM. Also, the article is incorrect in saying Takeoff post footage of him riding around Houston with J Prince Jr. the night of his death. That was Quavo that post footage of himself riding around. Takeoff wasn’t even in the same car as Quavo. So he wasn’t in the footage. The only social media story that Takeoff post that night was to his IG stories. It was a pic of him standing outside the bowling alley, lighting a blunt. And Playboi Carti song, “Stop Breathing”, was playing in the background. NatalieB1979 (talk) 02:20, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Date of death
Takeoff died on October 31st Halloween evening. X7apa7x (talk) 11:42, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 November 2022
Please change Kirshnik to Kirsnick
 * no, that’s just incorrect. lettherebedarklight〔晚安 おやすみ〕ping me when replying 07:48, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * also read the threads above. lettherebedarklight〔晚安 おやすみ〕ping me when replying 07:49, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Name
U have other name and that’s wrong. His name is Kirsnick and other name should be Kirshnik because that’s what the internet calls him. Also tickets were not sold. They were free to Georgia residents. Mzleilani82 (talk) 15:12, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Email to Wikimedia Foundation regarding name
Hello, the Wikimedia Foundation's Communications department received this email regarding the issue of this individual's name. Perhaps it would be worth mentioning both versions? Obviously, we leave it to community to determine what to do, but wanted to pass along this email given nature and sensitivity:
 * "Hi. I own Biz 3 and rep Migos and the rapper Takeoff who’s name is misspelled on Wikipedia and keeps spreading as this spelling when people check the spelling and use Wikipedia as their source. With his death recently it’s spread even more. I’ve hit many publications like the NY times, Rolling stone, variety, Billboard and they have changed the spelling. There is no “h” in his name.  The family would really like the proper spelling to be there"

They also provided some citations: Thank you! --Gregory Varnum (Wikimedia Foundation) &#91;he/him&#93; (talk) 15:34, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Done, thanks.  nableezy  - 15:50, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The problem is that the email person is not proven to be authoritative. Are they looking at the man's birth certificate? Our sources still show conflicting spellings. Rolling Stone omits his middle name and spells the first name Kirsnik with no 'c'. The New York Times gives Kirsnick Khari Ball with the 'c'. AllMusic says "Kirshnik Khari Ball" is the birth name, with alternate spelling given as Kirsnick Ball. So we don't have a consensus.
 * https://www.allmusic.com/artist/takeoff-mn0003587099/biography
 * I think we must give two spellings at least, with no particular version established as correct. Binksternet (talk) 16:27, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I think the best sources we have are the NYTimes and Rolling Stone, not allmusic.com.  nableezy  - 16:34, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * But NYT and RS don't agree: one has Kirsnick and the other has Kirsnik. Binksternet (talk) 18:14, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * For what it is worth, checking the website for Harris County Institute of Forensic Sciences (government agency that did the autopsy) shows that the spelling being used on death certificate is Kirsnick. You can verify by searching for case ML22-4580. Gregory Varnum (Wikimedia Foundation) &#91;he/him&#93; (talk) 17:37, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I personally would take that as authoritative. ?  nableezy  - 17:46, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Per WP:DOB, we cannot use government records for a living person, or recently deceased. Also, the name written down at death does not always match the birth name. An example of that is Nipsey Hussle, whose first name is spelled Airmiess on his birth certificate, but from his school days onward, all records spell his name Ermias. Because of the limitations set by WP:DOB, we were not allowed to cite the California birth certificate until a year had passed after his death. Binksternet (talk) 18:04, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I personally would take that as authoritative. ?  nableezy  - 17:46, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Per WP:DOB, we cannot use government records for a living person, or recently deceased. Also, the name written down at death does not always match the birth name. An example of that is Nipsey Hussle, whose first name is spelled Airmiess on his birth certificate, but from his school days onward, all records spell his name Ermias. Because of the limitations set by WP:DOB, we were not allowed to cite the California birth certificate until a year had passed after his death. Binksternet (talk) 18:04, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 November 2022
174.247.253.151 (talk) 21:43, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

"A Commemoration was held for Offset..."

You mean Takeoff.
 * ✅ Cannolis (talk) 22:08, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 November 2022
His name is just Kirsnick Khari Ball That’s his name and it’s on his birth certificate and death certificate Please change and don’t change into kirshnik because that’s NOT how you spell his name It’s Kirsnick Khari Ball

Izzi.bellz (talk) 00:08, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. MadGuy7023 (talk) 00:11, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 November 2022 (2)
Takeoff real name is just Kirsnick Khari Ball His name is NOT Kirshnik Its even on the m Booklet of his funeral

Izzi.bellz (talk) 23:19, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:21, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Takeoff real name
His real name isn’t Kirshnik Takeoffs real name is Kirsnick Khari Ball It’s been on his songs and I can sent prove from his booklet of his funeral His mom named him Kirsnick That’s how you spell it, Kirsnick Khari Ball Izzi.bellz (talk) 23:22, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * That is in the first line of the article, so I don't understand your question. 331dot (talk) 00:09, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Age
Lil cam is 22 not 16 2605:A601:AA1C:6600:DDE0:EE8E:636A:6E56 (talk) 11:16, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Stop changing takeoff's name
.. Leave takeoff's real name 2600:6C54:507F:50A3:5453:8AFB:822D:D059 (talk) 14:31, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:53, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Takeoff performing in July 2021.png