Talk:Takeshi Kaneshiro/Archive 1

Tekken needs to be removed
There was a rumor that he was going to start in the Tekken movie but this quote from the Tekken movie page disprooves it.

Talks of actors such as Takeshi Kaneshiro and Vicki Zhao appearing in the film are untrue as confirmed by Mr Rodney Cajudo of Crystal Sky Productions

Don't forget to sign guys (use four ~ symbols or the signature button). I changed the link to School Days to School Days (film) because it pointed to an unrelated video game. We're probably going to need a disambiguation page. --ScarletSpiderDave 11:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Anything else?
Maybe you guys should set aside the race/nationality issue for now and focus on making Takeshi's article more of an article. It's pretty minimal now. I'm actually kind of shocked as to how small this article is, and how particular you editors are getting over this one issue when there's so much more to work on. I would like to try and help make this better if I could, but the page is protected because of this one issue, so nothing can be done to improve it. -- Ambero 06:20, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I've unprotected now, but it will go back on protection if any of that nonsense starts up again. enochlau (talk) 08:52, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Enoculau, your protection to this page as well as Senanku Island suggested you're obviously not neutral in this content dispute. One thing that really cocnerned me was that you reverted to the version you preferred before protecting the page. Sumple, please stop making PA attack on edit summary, it implies bad faith to the project.--Certified.Gangsta 08:30, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Edit warring
I think all editors involved in the current edit war need to stop and as such, the page is now protected. Edit warring does not get you anywhere. I suggest that we conduct a straw poll on the follow: does this guy belong in that category? Note to Bonafide.hustla: your reversion of the link to Taiwanese people is not even disputable because as a matter of policy, we change links to redirects and disambig pages to their proper destinations. enochlau (talk) 10:48, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

First I didn't change the redirect intentionally. I simply reverted to my previous version for convenient purposes. Sorry about that. --Bonafide.hustla 00:28, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Be more careful. enochlau (talk) 10:40, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Takeshi's fansite
http://www.takeshi-kaneshiro.com/

Takeshi's fansite says his father is the one who is half Han 'Chinese' and half Ryukian Japanese, and that he is actually 3/4 Han and 1/4 Japanese. Can anyone else confirm this? Also it has various movie info regarding current productions. Intranetusa (talk) 08:27, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

As of now, article sounds like fanzine. Rewrite please! 165.21.154.116 20:49, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Um, information from the movie 'Sepet' seems to have mistakenly been merged with this page!

Deleted Wiki Projects Taiwan, China, and Japan
He has nothing to do with wiki projects, he is just a mixed ethnicity East Asian actor. Intranetusa (talk) 01:42, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:CHINA?
Why is this article part of the Chinese WikiProject?-- Jerry 16:47, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It shouldn't be.Intranetusa (talk) 05:44, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No need. --221.190.253.162 (talk) 09:35, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

racial issue (China vs. Taiwan)
Kaneshiro is a mixed Japanese-Taiwanese person. Some people might agree that he can be included as a Chinese person due to his ethnic background (most Japanese and Taiwanese orginiated from China); however, this is a violation of NPOV since it is such a delicate, controversial issue on wikipedia, it is safe to leave him out of the Chinese category.--Bonafide.hustla 06:57, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Japanese people did not originate from China.


 * There is no such ethnicity as "Taiwanese". As far as I know, Takeshi Kaneshiro's heritage (non-Japanese part thereof) is Han Chinese and not Taiwanese Aborigines. Unless you can show some evidence that he is Taiwanese Aboriginal, or that "Taiwanese" is an ethnicity rather than a residency status? --Sumple (Talk) 07:08, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Anything else should be removed as not NPOV. Thanks --Bonafide.hustla 07:15, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * First off, I need to say I resent your post on my talkpage falsely accusing me as a POV editor. I'm trying to bring NPOV to POV articles. I don't think that the English language Wikipedia should know or care about these distintions, especially if they cannot be expressed in English. All the Ethnic Group list articles are meant to simply list people who (themselves or their ancestors) immigrated from a particular country.  This so-called Chinese is, or should be, those people who came from China (mainland); the existing 'list of Taiwanese Americans' article are those people who came from Taiwan.  No politics here.  No culture here.  No self-reference questions of the people involved--who knows what is in their minds.  Using the rough term Han Chinese as an excuse to classify Taiwanese as Chinese is unjust to the Taiwanese population. Just geographic facts.


 * You seem to have a mistaken understanding of the word "ethnicity". Please consult a dictionary. --Sumple (Talk) 07:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Are you trying to make personal attack? I wouldn't be editing here if I'm illiterate. Base on human history, all Asians and natives Americans are from the same ethnicity. Ethnics is very vague. Plus we're not even talking about ethnicity here, we're talking about nationality.--Bonafide.hustla 07:38, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I do not believe that you are illiterate. I just think that you have a mistaken understanding of certain words, such as "Chinese", "ethnicity", "race", "nationality", "geography", "Taiwanese". Seriously, have you even looked at the Han Chinese page? Just start with the ethnicity page. And the Mongoloid page while you are at it. --Sumple (Talk) 07:43, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Well apparently the categories may refer to nationality instead of ethnic backgrounds. Plus if you really are that concern about ethnicity than I guess a lot of American celebrities are missing the British ethnicity.--Bonafide.hustla 07:47, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * They can refer to nationality as well as ethnic backgrounds. Look, British vs American is a totally different issue to Chinese vs Taiwanese. If you look at the political status of Taiwan page you will see that a significant portion of people in Taiwan regard "Taiwanese" as a subset of "Chinese". (How many Americans would think that "American" is a subset of "British"?) It's not up to you or I to say which way people should identify themselves.
 * Given that Takeshi Kaneshiro is Han Chinese, and, indeed, Taiwanese, his ethnicity is well described by being "Chinese". However, if you can show a source that says he thinks he's not, I will accept the deletion.
 * Omitting the "Chinese" category is not NPOV - it's POV because it is omitting a significant point of view. --Sumple (Talk) 09:27, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

At the end of the day, I think it boils down to whether the category uses the word "Chinese" in the ethnic sense or the nationality sense. It says "Mixed part-Chinese, part-Japanese people", and since mixing ethnicities as opposed to mixing nationalities makes more sense, I'd say that he falls under this category. However, it's not a hard and fast rule. Note Category:Chinese Australians, where it makes no sense to talk of "Australian" as an ethnicity. enochlau (talk) 10:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * By the way, please note I have put Category:Chinese Japanese people up for discussion about what it should be called, because Chinese Japanese is an ambiguous term. Since you all seem to have thought about this issue at least somewhat, your input would be appreciated. Thanks! cab 17:23, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Whoops, I didn't see it, but I would have supported it. enochlau (talk) 10:52, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

The Republic of China (Taiwan) government itself has a census that says 97% of people in Taiwan are Han Chinese. intranetusa 13:13, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

By the way Bonafide, look into the terms 1. race 2. ethnicity 3. nationality and 4. heritage Those are completely different. Takeshi Kaneshiro is 1. race: Mongoloid 2. ethnicity: Han-Chinese/Ryukian-Japanese 3. nationality: Taiwanese 4. heritage: Taiwanese, Chinese, and Japanese Intranetusa 08:45, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

ryukans are mostly chinese descendants anyway, and are discriminated against in central japan. this means kaneshiro is probably 100% chinese. he used the japanese thing as a gimick because he is ashamed of being chinese and or thinks that being japanese is cool.


 * You're totally wrong. Ryukians are mixed, and have had a strong Japanese influence since they conquered it about 600-800 years ago. Japanese influence in the Ryukians would eventually surpass Chinese influence in the 18th century. No, he is not ashamed of being either Han-'Chinese' or Japanese. Kaneshiro makes most of his movies in Hong Kong, and has recorded music albums in Mandrian, Ming Na, and Cantonese, so your statement about him being ashamed of being Han is totally wrong. Don't be a nationalistic retard. Intranetusa (talk) 01:41, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Agree. We don't need to guess his roots. Okinawa is Japan now and his parents are Japanese and Taiwaense. These are fact. His blood is Japanese and Taiwanese. We need to write an article at present POV with citations or references. This is not a histric article. --221.190.253.162 (talk) 09:23, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Please do not put unverified information in the bio. His mother's exact ethnicity beyond Taiwanese is unknown and the An An article only states that Kaneshiro is 1/4 Okinawan, not that his father is mixed Japanese-Chinese. He is a Japanese citizen, not Taiwanese.Read4comprehension (talk) 06:30, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

If all concessions are made the simple fact is that he is ethnically half Han Chinese, and his name is not linguistically considered Taiwanese by any means. Colipon+(T) 17:17, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Jyutping
Why on earth is there jyutping readings for all China-related actor and singer articles? This person has nothing to do with the province of Guangdong or the SAR of Hong Kong, and does not speak Cantonese. There was a similar issue with the Jay Chou article too (refer to Talk:Jay Chou). Do not add jyutping readings to infoboxes if the person is not related to a Cantonese-speaking area. --  李博杰   | —Talk contribs email 11:41, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Space Between Surname and Given Name
"Since personal names are commonly written in Chinese characters in both Chinese and Japanese naming conventions, with surnames before given names, this gives Kaneshiro the freedom whether to distinguish himself as a Japanese or not when working in Chinese-speaking countries by preserving or removing the space between his surname and given name."

Does this make any sense? There are no spaces between characters in Chinese names. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.100.130.143 (talk) 02:14, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Nope. Traditionally, there were no space at all, in ANY type of writing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.89.73.109 (talk) 05:08, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Ethnicity and American/British
Ethnicity can be--and often is--based solely on culture, not genetics or ancestry. So whether this guy is Chinese or Taiwanese depends on whether you believe Taiwan has a distinct culture from the PRC. As for Americans and Britons, those two are two separate cultures and ethnicities, though they are definitely related to each other.  Chiss Boy  11:23, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The Taiwanese culture is a subset of Chinese culture -- Chinese as a race and culture, not necessarily the nationality. Taiwanese are Han Chinese -- most of them are not even mixed with any other race. (i.e., contemporary Americans who are usually mixtures of different White ethnicities.) Taiwanese speak, read and write Chinese languages (Mandarin and Fujian/"Taiwanese").  Taiwanese celebrate Chinese festivals.  Taiwanese follow Chinese customs.  Taiwanese worship Chinese gods and deities.  Taiwanese teach early Chinese history as their own.  Taiwanese teach Chinese culture, traditions and behavioral codes including Confucianism.  Taiwanese are Chinese as much as Cantonese are Chinese and Fujians are Chinese.  ktchong 16 April 2007
 * In fact, in many ways Taiwanese are MORE Chinese than mainlanders, who have lost much of their Chinese root and heritage during the Cultural Revolution when old Chinese traditions came under attack, while Chinese traditions have survived intact in Taiwan. Taiwanese have retained all traditional Chinese customs and heritage, while mainlanders are, well, communists who have rebelled against, forsaken and lost much of their Chinese root during the crazy 1960s.  ktchong 16 April 2007
 * If there is a term "Taiwanese", then we just use it. That's all. No need to emphasize Chinese ancestry unless he himself have shown anything, like family tree or his roots, etc. This article is not about history and ethnitity. He was born in Taiwan, has Japanese and Taiwanese parernts, and holds Japanese citizentship. No more than and no less than that. We should write an article with exact references. No need to guess. --221.190.253.162 (talk)
 * Not true. Studies show that 85-88% of the Taiwanese pre-KMT are mixed with aboriginal blood. It can be explained by the fact that only men in China were allowed to migrate to Taiwan. 75.149.192.189 (talk) 13:24, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Nationality and/or citizenship in infobox.
Per WP:INFOBOXNTLY: nationality/citizenship "should be avoided when the country to which the subject belongs can be inferred from the country of birth." Per : nationality: "Should only be used if nationality cannot be inferred from the birthplace." If he is a Taiwanese national, then, per the guidance above, I think we should not list his nationality since he was born in Taiwan. Since he is a Japanese citizen, it would be appropriate to list that for citizenship. Or if he is considered a Japanese national, then I think it would be fine to list him just as a Japanese national But I don't agree, based on my current I understanding of his situation with respect to nationality/citizenship, that both nationality and citizenship should both be listed with Taiwan as the only value for nationality. 108.56.139.120 (talk) 17:15, 3 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Per : Nationality may be used instead of |citizenship= (below) or vice versa in cases where any confusion could result. Should only be used with |citizenship= when they differ. In this case, Takashi is a very special case where he is pretty much Taiwanese, but holds Japanese citizenship. His situation is confusing to most editors and readers, therefore, nationality must be used in order for readers to reflect this fact because they differ as per the guideline. Secondly, the infobox template further stated under |citizenship "Country of legal citizenship, if different from nationality. Rarely needed.", the citizenship section here is "RARELY USED", if anything, the most accurate presentation format should be "Taiwan, Japan" as nationality, which is what I initially proposed. Finally, Takeshi's career and identity pretty much revolves around Taiwan or Chinese language films. He speaks fluent Mandarin and Cantonese, and his acting credits are mostly Chinese/Taiwanese films in addition to mandopop albums. Simply listing Japan as his citizenship sends a biased message as well of his career achievement thus far. However, if you want to show both Japan and Taiwan as nationality and delete citizenship, that would be something I'm willing to accept.


 * Per WP:INFOBOXNTLY: your argument here pretty much collapsed on itself. The guideline stated, "When needed, for example, due to change of nationality after birth, dual "citizenship", or other unusual scenarios, use |nationality= unless |citizenship= is more appropriate due to uncommon legal reasons." In this case, Takeshi's case is clearly warranting citing Taiwan because when he was born, he was Taiwanese, and later on likely changed to Japanese Citizenship. This meets the guideline completely to list Nationality. Furthermore, the guideline emphasized, "use |nationality= unless |citizenship= is more appropriate due to uncommon legal reasons. The guideline clearly tells us to use Nationality (Taiwan, Japan), instead of Citizenship, so by listing citizenship you're doing what the guideline recommending against. Listing both is something that's more neutral than unilaterally listing Japan or Taiwan. As you know, Wikipedia is built upon the principle of neutrality.Jjj84206 (talk) 17:41, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

>Takeshi is a very special case where he is pretty much Taiwanese, but holds Japanese citizenship.

>In this case, Takeshi's case is clearly warranting citing Taiwan because when he was born, he was Taiwanese, and later on likely changed to Japanese Citizenship.

No original research Kaneshiro is Half Japanese (father) and Half Taiwanese (mother).

"However, Kaneshiro, born in Taiwan to a Japanese father and Taiwanese mother, holds only citizenship from Japan."

【2:50~】Kaneshiro said I'm Japanese.

--2001:268:C0D0:B9B8:D116:74F6:16B4:B39A (talk) 09:10, 9 August 2021 (UTC)