Talk:Tala (music)

2004

 * Improvements necessary. There are some pretty egregious mistakes on this page. For instance, sam may always exist as a first beat at the vibhag level, but it is not always relatively stressed--case in point Rupak, in which sam is khali or unstressed (and misrepresented in the table here).    — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.132.173.131 (talk) 20:17, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Todo: add information about kalai (as in 1-kalai, 2-kalai). I think it's already a little confusing with gati, jati, etc. Anyway, relevant link: http://www.sangeetham.com/bboard/quest.php3?submit=yes&qid=4956&forid=13 Ambarish 15:14, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The Carnatic section seriously needs more English definitions for the terms used. The table in "Tāla in Carnatic music" is indecipherable without more explanation. Since this is a basic topic, providing terms here, or at least links to pages where the terms are explained, is sorely needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Renick (talk • contribs) 12:06, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

The font used on this page does not displayy properly in IE on Windows XP. This being the most poular browser/OS on the planet may have signifcance. --66.245.216.246 06:53, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The reference to RTP in this text links to unrelated topics. Could someone provide the right "RTP" link please? Iani 13:42, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Done. It is Ragam Thanam Pallavi. VasuVR (talk) 05:08, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Overstress on Carnatic
There is a strong emphasis and a resulting dis-proportionate (excessive) coverage of the Carnatic rhythem structure. From the perspective of an american who extensively travels all over the states to listen to Indian classical music performances, the contemporary popular form of Indian music is definitely Hindustani and thus in my opinion the Hindustani style must be given consideration commensurate with its acceptance and worldwide popularity. Also from my study of Indian music I figure the word is Taal and not Tala. Similary Raag and not Raagam, Vibhaag and not Vibhaga. Are these suffixes an accepted style of hindi/sanskrit -> english transciption ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.22.245.35 (talk) 05:54, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, some of the stuff in the Carnatic section applies equally to Hindustani music as well, e.g. the jati system. Taal and Tāla are equivalent transliterations, because the "aa" is the same as "ā" and the "a" at the end is sometimes omitted. Since it looks like we have decided to go with the second option for some other articles (e.g. Rāga, Swara), it's a good idea to use "Tāla" for this article for the sake of consistency, but of course also mention alternative transliterations and make sure we have redirects for them. 140.177.205.221 (talk) 18:41, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

As an additional note, Tala is correct as stated in this article. It is an accepted word for musical time units and refers to the ancient notation of rhythm or pulse (beat)as Space - Time units of measure. (See Building Architecture of Sthapatya Veda by Dr. V. Ganapati Sthapati, p208) These Tala units of music are equivalent to the time units used in traditional architecture and sculpture. hence, traditional architecture designed and built per Vaastu Shastras, is referred to as "frozen music." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.1.38.92 (talk) 12:15, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Things to do
This is a very interesting article; I like math and music, so this area is quite intriguing to me. Having said that, I'd like to suggest a few possible ways to improve the article. I might do some of this, but I should be careful because I'm quite ignorant about Indian music.


 * Add references. This is the most important.  Ideally, all facts given in Wikipedia should be backed up with external sources.  Is there a good book or website that is authoritative on this topic?
 * Improve presentation of combinatorial and numerical information. For example, there is a big table that is simply preformatted in fixed-width type; it should be redone with a Wiki table.
 * Adopt standard spelling of Indian words. For example, either use double vowels or a length-mark, but don't oscillate between the two.
 * Give language origin and translation for each technical word when the word is introduced. I assume most of the words are either Sanskrit or Tamil; perhaps the devanagari or Tamil could be given as well when the word is introduced, for those who can read Indian languages.
 * Use italics only for the first time a term is introduced.
 * Don't use a hyphen when forming English plurals of Indian words. I understand the temptation to separate the Indian terms from the English plural suffix, but it makes the text harder to read.  "Talams" and "aksharams" are OK; it's not necessary to write "talam-s" every time.
 * Decide whether to use a "1" or a vertical bar to symbolize laghu, and use it consistently.


 * Fixed. It should be a vertical bar. Arulguna (talk) 05:42, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

In addition my curiosity was aroused and I would have loved to learn the answers to these questions that came to my mind:


 * How long is a maatraa in actual time? It seems likely that it's about a quarter of a second, but there's no hint in the text.  (From the length of a maatraa, of course, one could compute the approximate time taken up by all the larger rhythmic patterns.)
 * What is the actual significance of the maatraa? Is it merely a time unit that is introduced to control the speed of the talam, or is it an actual audible part of the music?  All the ways of tapping the beat that are described in this article (palm down, palm up, finger tapping) seem to happen at the beginning of the aksharam (on maatraa number 1, so to speak); does anything happen on the other maatraas "inside" an aksharam, or are these internal maatraas all in the minds of the musicians?
 * In misra- and sankeerna-jaati laghu, what fingers are used after the sixth aksharam? I ran out of fingers attempting these!
 * Is there a generic term for the class of patterns including anudhrutam, dhrutam, and laghu? The article just calls these "patterns".
 * Is there a reason that the numbers 3, 4, 5, 7, and 9 are preferred as jaati, both for laghu and for nadai? What is wrong with 6 and 8?

And one final silly note: Carnatic musicians must really like 7: there are four different talams with 7 aksharams. They are the khanda-jaati rupaka, chatusra-jaati jhampa, tisra-jaati triputa, and misra-jaati eka talams. No other number of aksharams has four talams; all the other lengths have three or fewer.

I hope you can tell I am having fun learning about this! ACW 22:48, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Could someone also elaborate on the taal structure in hindustani classical music, in addition to the carnatic taal system.


 * A picture or even better, a video is worth a thousand words. Though this article goes into great technical depth, I'd really like to see pictures to explain these ideas.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.112.200.89 (talk) 02:23, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

For more info...
the article had far more on the Carnatic tala system than Hindustani one. if anyone wants more info on the hindustani system, contact me at theantichrist81@hotmail.com - maybe i'll eventually get around to editing the article and adding all i know on the matter. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 122.162.167.67 (talk) 09:23, 15 May 2007 (UTC).

The two systems are different enough that they should be separated. Perhaps linking from the parent articles of "Hindustani Classical Music" and "Carnatic Music"149.176.250.16 (talk) 00:51, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Taal and speed
various Taal can be played at various speeds. The comment about Ektaal being the slowest is misleading. Usually, most of the vilambit khaylas in Kirana gharana are in Ektal while those in Jaipur gharana tend to be in Tintal/Trital. So even a Tintal can be slow. Many of the vilambit khayals are also in Zumra. Therefore, ektaal is not the only one which is played as slow tempo. --Kaveri 16:47, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

yes there is no relation between taal and tempo. any taal can be played in any tempo. also can some one add rhythtm sylables to Karnataka Sangetha taala? such as: tha ka dhi mi tha ka Jha Nu?

~rAGU (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 19:47, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I am new to editing wiki, and a passionate mridangam player. I would be glad to add the required Sangeetha taala, but please guide me as to how to add them. Ashwinsathya (talk) 22:04, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Terms and language
I just read this article, as a general reader first, and it took a long time. The reason is that I had to open several tabs and continually search the web or seek out other Wikipedia articles to decipher the foreign words.
 * Please do not contribute text in a foreign language to English Wikipedia. Your contributions are more than welcome at a Wikipedia in your language. Thank you. --- Otr500 (talk) 22:32, 8 December 2016 (UTC)