Talk:Tan France

first openly gay and Muslim...
Ranj Singh is an openly gay TV presenter, that has been presenting on National BBC TV programs since 2012. Therefore, it is incorrect that Tan France is the first openly gay south asian on TV.

Mawaan Rizwan - no Wiki Page currently exists, but is openly gay and muslim. He has been on various TV series, including a 2015 documentary 'How Gay is Pakistan'. Therefore, Tan France is not the 'first' openly gay muslim on TV. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sidesix (talk • contribs) 03:30, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Do you have Wp:reliable sources for these? Gleeanon409 (talk) 08:32, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

I understand if you're a fan of France, however we need to be careful when making sweeping statements such as 'the only' or 'the first', and be sure not to forget the other trailblazers that came before. See following: I wouldn't go as far to say any of these were 'the first' however, they've been active on national and western TV prior to Tan France. There is a chance that there are others, but I don't have the time or knowledge to know who maybe the 'first' gay South Asian on TV nor whom maybe other out and Muslim (by upbringing or choice). Mawaan Rizwan, Haaz Sleiman, Omar Sharif Jr., Ranj Singh. Preceding unsigned comment added by Sidesix (talk • contribs)
 * , This has nothing to do with being a fan, etc. On Wikipedia we improve something rather than delete. Once we look at reliable sourcing, if our current statement is inaccurate then we improve or add context to align with reliable sources. See Bowen Yang for example how that can look. Gleeanon409 (talk) 19:01, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Hopefully this edit is acceptable. I think it's important not to mislead readers when there is available information on other out gay muslim and south asian actors with reliable sources. comment added by Sidesix (talk • contribs) —Preceding undated comment added 20:26, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I’ve looked it over and made some changes following the sources. Gleeanon409 (talk) 22:22, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

I question this desire to still use the phrase 'became the first openly gay, South Asian man on worldwide television'. Firstly, with regards to Ranj Singh, the CBeebies channel is syndicated globally. Secondly, Sushant Divgikar is an openly gay Indian man who starred in Bigg Boss one of Indias biggest TV shows that is syndicated globally. Third, back to Mawaan Rizwan, who is openly gay and Pakistani born, has appeared in multiple shows that have aired in multiple countries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sidesix (talk • contribs) 05:15, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I’ll look into Sushant Divgikar, any others? France has the timing of being seen worldwide on a hit show, that’s a bit more notable than being syndicated in multiple countries. And, after all, this is his biography, things can be stated differently on the others’ articles to emphasize why they are notable. Gleeanon409 (talk) 05:50, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

@gleeanon409 - See WP:NPOVD, I believe your current wording is misleading and ignores Wikipedia's drive for impartiality. After further research into the comment you're using with regards to being 'the first', it comes from a statement made by himself (see citation) "The thought of being one of the very first openly gay South Asian men on a major show." , therefore I've corrected the language to reflect that.

WP:Editing policy states, "on Wikipedia a lack of information is better than misleading or false information" To prove that he was indeed 'the first' it's important to back this up with solid proof and foundations, otherwise the wording you use should reflect accurate and impartial sources.

In addition, whether or not one TV show is more or less notable than another is a moot point, especially when attributing the word 'worldwide' in a statement; We don't have access to viewing figures for Netflix shows. Bigg Boss regularly pulls in South Asian viewers worldwide, work by Rizwan have been broadcast on network television in other countries such as Canada & Australia, and available 'worldwide' via Prime Video, a little further research could bring up a host of other gay South Asians and Muslims that have appeared on TV - for example Tamal Ray a contestant on 2015 GBBO which is streamed on Netflix and has a popular worldwide following.

If you are able to find evidence, rather than a personal statement, to prove that he was indeed 'the first' 'worldwide', please add credible citations to back this statement up. Furthermore, when editing notes/information - make sure you don't use wording that can be misinterpreted.

Also - I don't believe it is necessary to include the references in the notes. Hyperlinks to their wiki pages will give readers further information including citations. There are no references used in the notes in a similar example that you provided with regards to Bowen Yang.
 * The Bowen Yang references are in the body of the article had you looked. And they are certainly required per WP:BLP. Gleeanon409 (talk) 17:49, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Citations have been added and reverted to France being named as 'Third' out gay muslim on western television, since Omar Sharif Jr has appeared on US Cable TV shows & in film since coming out in 2012. Since Rizwan was raised Muslim, but came out as an atheist to his mother - I've still included for context.

work area for other gay and Muslin South Asian men on TV

 * Ranj Singh
 * Mawaan Rizwan
 * Haaz Sleiman
 * Omar Sharif Jr.

Here’s my draft: He became the first openly gay, South Asian man on worldwide television, and the second out gay Muslim man on western television after Haaz Sleiman,