Talk:Taroc l'Hombre

Problems
I have several objections to this article. First, it's rather myopic. It focuses on the Austro-German version of the game rather than its Lombard parent which was more revolutionary. While the Austro-German branch is dead, Tarocc'Ombre lives on in many Piedmontese games and French Tarot, the most popular living tarot game. Second, Taroc l'Hombre did not develop from Grosstarock but supplanted it. Sure, it borrowed declarations from Grosstarock but abandoned other features. A parallel development happened in France too when Tarocc'Ombre there borrowed a single declaration from classical French tarot before consigning it to history. Ulf Martin's articles The Tarock of the Skat Inventors in The Playing-Card show the distinction between the two branches of tarot games as well as introducing critical early sources. Third, you're relying on outdated and incomplete sources. The Game of Tarot does not include a large body of living Tarocc'Ombre descended games found in Piedmont nor does it include Droggn which is a Taroc l'Hombre variant that survived until the 1980s. It is best to use A History of Card Games Played with the Tarot Pack for a more complete history of these games.--Countakeshi (talk) 10:18, 11 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your helpful comments. Do feel free to write an article on Tarocc 'Ombre which the article acknowledges was "a development of the highest importance in the history of Tarot".
 * I agree that Taroc l'Hombre looks more like a development of the Italian game Tarocc' Ombre upgunned with 78-card, French-suited pack and different scoring, rather than Grosstarock modified with bidding from Tarocc 'Ombre, and have changed the lede accordingly. The history section already says that it came from Tarocc 'Ombre.
 * I already have Martin's article and ordered Dummett & McLeod's "History" back in April, but it has yet to arrive. Meanwhile, I have located another 1795 source that clearly neither Martin nor Dummett mention.
 * I'm not sure I can agree that the Austro-German branch is dead; like its Italian family, it lives on in the numerous games that incorporate the feature of bidding introduced in Tarocc 'Ombre. That's the point Dummett makes and I agree with him. Bidding was the future of Tarot north of the Alps. Bermicourt (talk) 12:33, 11 June 2020 (UTC)