Talk:Team Fortress 2/Archive 5

Spy origins
The article says the spy is of "ambiguous origins (but with an unambiguous penchant for cigarettes)", but isn't he French? I'd rather ask here than go trying to rephrase that myself... Thoughts? Matthew Blaine (talk) 07:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The spy's accent hasn't been confirmed in reliable/official sources. Due to the very large amount of suggestions for the spy's accent (French, Italian, Spanish, English, Scottish, South African and Mexican have all been put forward on this page), we left it out per WP:OR. All other accents except the pyro can be sourced, this one can't. -- Sabre (talk) 12:47, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

On the spy update page http://www.teamfortress.com/spyupdate/english.htm there is a “portable Baccarat detector” Baccarat is most popular in France —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.101.114.165 (talk) 13:46, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

In the new meat the spy video at the end he speaks French http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTj6tauY1JU I’m not asking for this to be put in the article until this video becomes official. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theinnocentguy (talk • contribs) 13:35, 17 May 2009

He definitely sounds french in the video, although i can't remember it being explicitly stated anywhere, so I don't think it can be accepted as fact yet. 202.53.199.72 (talk) 03:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * He speaks French at the end of Meet the Spy (it's on YouTube, look it up), saying "ma petit chou fleur" which means "my little cauliflower". —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 08:47, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So do Tony Blair and The Queen. Does that make them French? Are French speaking Canadians, French or Canadian? Was I German whilst I was learning their language at school? - X201 (talk) 09:29, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll certainly admit that the video certainly conveyed a very strong French from-France-itself feeling, the accent from both spies was far more readily identifiable as French and the music in particular at the end was stereotypical France. And the Queen is German. -- Sabre (talk) 10:55, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * When he speaks french, he does not do so with a French accent. (I am French, so I would know). Plus, he says "ma petit chou-fleur", when it should be "mon petit chou-fleur" (gender mistake). Plus, the way he pronounces the "R" is no french at all :). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.205.130.156 (talk) 00:37, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That is maybe because he is... well... a Spy. Did you ever heard a Scout in French accenent? "Need a dispeneur 'ere? And if we go by that logic, the Medics German speaking parts are also wrong (Dummköpfe instead of Dummkopfs, Schweinehunde instead of Schweinhunds, but to be honest, I kind of find it funny). Does that mean the Medic is not German? Maybe a Spy? 130.83.87.32 (talk) 11:24, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That could just be because he's voiced by an American actor who can't do a very good French accent, it doesn't mean the character isn't intended to be French. Even though "ma petit chou-fleur" is grammatically incorrect, it's still French. It's like me saying "I are going to edit Wikipedia" - although incorrect, it's still English. —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 09:24, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * But as X201 pointed out, him speaking french does not make him french. I can speak english, I sometimes express myself in english (even in France), but I'm still French... Is there any "real" proof (instead of hints) Valve intended the Spy to be french? Because they've been doing a real great job on other characters. Why wouldn't they on the Spy? I'm sure there is a lot of french voice talents out here in the US. Or why not just use the French voice talents, who did TF2 french voices? Why not ask those who translated TF2 in French to verify just this little sentence? That's why I am surprised... I spent a lot of time trying to get where he'd come from, I even extracted the spy sounds from the CGF files so that I could hear them all, and could not get it. When I saw here on Wikipedia that he was supposed to be French, I was baffled. I would NEVER have thought so. But... That's just my thought. Valve did a real great job everywhere, I am surprised they would not on the spy :)
 * As an Australian, I can tell you that they didn't do a great job on every other character's voice. Is that to say the sniper is just "pretending" to be Australian as well? This is ridiculous. It's like a bunch of bureaucrats arguing over whether or not a form should be signed at the top or at the bottom when the form is self explanatory and barely relevant in itself. He is supposed to be French. The Cake is a Lie T /  C 07:10, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

The Spy speaks French (Merde), Spanish (Amigo) and Italian (Cant remember) as well as English in-game. 92.3.237.66 (talk) 18:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Someone has changed the Spy to French, but I don't see a consensus here on talk (and if the poster above is correct, such a consensus is impossible as the Spy would appear to be intentionally of ambiguous origins. Since the only reference in the Spy section doesn't mention his nationality, I've changed it back to ambiguous origins. Surely it should be ambiguous until we can astern it? 91.85.138.20 (talk) 22:02, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Perhaps we should have no information, and simply have it read "The Spy is a charectar with a penchant for cigarettes"? Prokhorovka (talk) 20:38, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * He's French. The video plays classicly French music in the background while he reminisces about Scout's Mom. Team Fortress 2 isn't overly elaborate about character development and mystery, and delving into convoluted and technical hypothesis regarding the possibility of his accent being false seems somewhat fanboy-ish. If it's really a problem, somebody should e-mail Valve and ask for a definitive answer that can be cited since "ambiguous origins" is equally speculative. The Cake is a Lie T /  C 07:59, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


 * It does imply that, but he speaks several languages and his accent is deliberately disguised. I still think just dropping all information about his nationality is the best way to go. Even if someone did e-mail Valve there would be no way of verifying their response wasn't faked by said user. I guess we could ask them to make a statement on their site, but I doubt they'll bother. Prokhorovka (talk) 17:10, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Considering the wide variety of languages he speaks in game, the fact that he perfectly replicates a Scout's voice (I don't know if that's an effect of the disguise, does it really matter?) and that he's a damn spy, I'm not sure accents should even be taken into account. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.62.178.202 (talk) 05:29, 12 July 2009 (UTC)


 * For me, it's not the language or accent he speaks in, but the accordion that plays when he picks up the photo of him and the Scout's mom. He's without a doubt intended to be French. (Momus (talk) 20:19, 3 August 2009 (UTC))

Unquestionably French. Lets remember that the characters are blatant stereotypes and the absurd number of french references (even cigarette smoking) should not be overanalyzed. Even if you don't agree with me, 'ambiguous origins' is unsubstantiated and should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.105.142 (talk) 13:42, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

While this may or may not be a reliable source of information, Team Fortress 2 Wiki clearly states that the spy originated from France- http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Spy ～Comicreader13


 * User editable wikis are not reliable sources. Rehevkor ✉  14:15, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Soldier refers to Spy as French in several of his domination lines ("Hit the showers, Frenchie"). Whether or not Soldier qualifies as a reliable source is questionable, though: he also refers to Engineer as Canadian. 88.159.200.2 (talk) 13:43, 22 December 2009 (UTC)


 * That's because he accuses the Engineer for being a draft-dodger
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_dodger. 79.254.5.31 (talk) 05:32, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

How about this as a source? Says he's French. http://www.wegame.com/games/tf2/spy-tf2/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.34.211.24 (talk) 19:34, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * No. It's also a copy/paste of . Rehevkor ✉  19:37, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

For information, the most recent update for TF2 added more implication that the spy is French, including the new revolver "L'Etranger" and the overall Algerian-themed "Saharan Spy" kit. 203.217.150.69 (talk) 03:17, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

The most recent update to the official Team Fortress website lists his country of origin as France Radical Ans ✉ 02:04, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Too many refs
I'm not sure that an article on a single video game needs 77 references. Smurfy 16:17, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I can confidently say you are wrong. An article on anything requires as many references as needed to verify its content. Its nothing out of the ordinary for an article at GA status, compare with other GA or FA articless: Halo: Combat Evolved (FA) has 107, StarCraft (FA) has 93, Doom 3 (GA) has 66. 70 odd references for an article about a game critically acclaimed within the video game media, plus one with an extended development history, is nothing abnormal. -- Sabre (talk) 16:24, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:DENY Rehevkor ✉  17:06, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

"Meet the..." videos as machinima?
They clearly don't use the same engine (or at least the same version of the engine) that the game uses, and they don't feature actual gameplay. Is it correct to label them as machinima? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.46.106.122 (talk) 23:52, 3 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Got any sources to back that up? The engine is the same unless proven otherwise, although the videos, like that of the L4D trailer, will have been subjected to post-processing. Machinima doesn't have to be representative of gameplay, merely rendered using the game engine. -- Sabre (talk) 00:00, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I thought that the point of machinima is that it uses game assets as well as engine. The models are not game models (they have complex facial animation), and the animation is not game animation. I doubt that the game engine could render them in real time. I am more inclined to demand that the claim that they ARE machinima be backed up with sources. 203.83.193.114 (talk) 07:48, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Agreed; the idea that "the engine is the same unless proven otherwise" doesn't fit with WP:V. We should only be calling the videos machinima if a given, reliable source has also called them that. --McGeddon (talk) 10:10, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Valve use a special in-game recorder to do the official trailers. 92.3.237.66 (talk) 18:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC)


 * source? 69.132.87.99 (talk) 17:07, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

This may be relevant information:
 * The videos also helped the game's technology. Valve used Meet the Heavy to test the facial animation system the studio was developing for TF2. According to Walker, the new system "allowed our characters to have a much greater range of expressions than we were able to do in Half-Life… We wanted a test case for that." Ultimately, what they got to work in the Meet the Team videos is what would display for players running the game itself at its highest settings. Walker recalled that team's pleasure about "the expression on the Heavy at the end when he's shooting and screaming." It was no fake. "It wasn't this thing that the coolest bit in [the movie] was something that would happen in the game."
 * — http://kotaku.com/5273555/valve-dreams-of-team-fortress-2-movie-divulges-meet-the-team-origins

—216.171.189.244 (talk) 02:21, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Scout Update Date
The date of the Scout Update has to be wrong, there are only 28 days in February. - 68.8.253.223 (talk) 23:35, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Capitalizing the class names
In all of the biographies for the classes on their Meet The... pages, the names of the classes are all capitalized. This is the same in the "tip" parts of the loading screens, and mostly everywhere else where the class's names are shown. I am going to edit the page to follow this suit, but upon looking back in the history, I see that this has been done before, but was reverted. Why? 24.218.211.138 (talk) 16:10, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * MOS:CAPS: "Wikipedia's house style avoids unnecessary capitalization; most capitalization is for proper names, acronyms, and initialisms." - it's arguable whether the class names are considered "proper names" or not.
 * Watch your search-and-replace, either way: you've just edited once sentence to tautologically read "The Heavy is a stereotypical Russian character, with a huge figure and Heavy accent". --McGeddon (talk) 16:25, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that the class names should be treated as proper names. As the creator of this subject wrote, all the class names are proper on their Meet the Class pages. Class names are also capitalized on the update lists for TF2 updates. I think this would qualify for being used as proper names. 24.60.91.11 (talk) 00:27, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The class names are common words—scout, sniper, pyro, all words reasonably standard words in gaming and (to an extent) military jargon. Simply because the game chooses to give emphasis to them doesn't mean we should; as stated above, it is unnecessary capitalisation, as well as looking unprofessional for presentation. -- Sabre (talk) 01:12, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, but the point is not that it's not standard words in gaming or that it's okay for presentation - it's that these are their names. In every single piece of work where the class's names are mention, they are capitalized. In the article for TFC, it would be more proper for using lowercase, but here, with them each being separate characters with separate personalities, I think it would be more appropriate for the names to be made proper. 24.60.91.11 (talk) 01:41, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * While I'm not passionate about it, I also support capitalising them. Because while in general they are common words used in gaming, for this article they should be counted as names. 202.53.199.72 (talk) 06:16, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Once again I have added capitalization to the names of the classes. Considering that all official Valve material (including in-game, the Meet the Class vidos, and the official TF2 blog) capitalizes the names of the classes, it should only be followed on the Wikipedia page. Homepie (talk) 11:50, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Sniper next class update (spy update!)
I think it is apparent from the TF2 blog that the sniper is the next class being updated, however, it is not clearly stated that it is the one that is coming out NEXT. Cainine (talk) 00:16, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I doubt it, given that the post there was an obvious joke post (note that it was posted on April Fools' Day). I'm uncomfortable with this post alone as confirmation; could we get another one, or an interview or something else official, to corroborate that the Sniper's the next class to be updated? -Jeremy (v^_^v Cardmaker) 02:35, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Good point, I forgot what day it was. Sorry, Cainine (talk) 20:36, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Now that they've clarified, we can now say without hyperbole that the next class update will be the Sniper's. :) -Jeremy (v^_^v Cardmaker) 09:17, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * COnfirmed will be live in the next few days http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2497 Xubee (talk) 09:34, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

um cheak again  the nex update will be the spy www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2497
 * For all we know it could be both since Sniper weapons were on display (as well as the Spywatches), but the Spy's achievements being revealed kinda means he's a given (although descriptions of the achievements aren't available, likely due to how far out it is. -Jeremy (v^_^v Cardmaker) 03:08, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It is both the Sniper and Spy classes. Updates have been added already. The Cake is a Lie T /  C 06:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Pyro origins
The pyro has bean suspected to be female by a portion of the community Among other evidence there:
 * what appears to be a purse in the pyros locker
 * on the page http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2509 the sentence “Pyro's going to be inconsolable now”. For the first 2 min of the post being on the blog said "When the Pyro hears about this she'll be inconsolable."

valve have done this on many occasions such as the double bomb cart in the scout update and the cloaked spy behind the sniper on day 3. http://img196.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tf2page.jpg&via=tfrog. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.101.114.165 (talk) 13:41, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * http://kepfeltoltes.hu/view/090515/SHE_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theinnocentguy (talk • contribs)
 * "Suspected by fans" isn't of any relevance to an encyclopaedia article. When a source says the pyro's female, it can go in the article; analysing locker items and second-hand screenshots is WP:SYN. --McGeddon (talk) 17:29, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, anything Valve has said in re the Pyro's gender (or lack thereof) has been rescinded almost as soon as it has been uttered. -Jeremy (v^_^v Cardmaker) 03:10, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I believe that adding the information, after clearly labeling it as a fan speculation or a rumor(similar the the rumors in Super Mario 64 would be encyclopedic enough to add to the article. - ~VNinja~ 08:03, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * "Fan speculation or <> rumor" are never "encyclopedic enough". Rehevkor ✉  14:26, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I will note, however, if reliable sources (like IGN or Gamespot) in an article commented that fans speculated on the pyro's gender as being female, that could be included as a means to inject the fan communities' ideas. That said, I've never seen an article from such sources to infer this, so no, it still can't be added until one is found. --M ASEM (t) 14:31, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Okay, So in the main menu, it suggested I try and get 3 assists using the Pyro, with the caption under it "Why not give *her* a shot."75.139.159.103 (talk) 06:18, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

It randomly chooses between him and her, actually. Valve are just toying with you, of course he's a man. He doesn't have feminine forms and his voice actor is a man (the same one as the Spy, at that). --142.213.254.2 (talk) 18:17, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Linking to TF2wiki
Does this external link really fail WP:ELNO? We avoid "Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors", but this one's been around for a couple of years, and seems to have hundreds of editors. Does it have known stability issues? --McGeddon (talk) 22:30, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's currently having stability issues. -Jeremy (v^_^v Cardmaker) 05:44, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The site appears to be down at the moment, but I assume that "stability" means "resistance to vandalism", in this context. (If server stability was an issue for Wikipedia external links, it would be a generic "never link to a site that has occasional downtime" guideline.) --McGeddon (talk) 09:09, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * (In fact, there is actually "Links that are not reliably functional" as a separate point in WP:ELNO.) --McGeddon (talk) 15:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

It is nothing but a spam. --SkyWalker (talk) 06:49, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You're demonstrably wrong here, SkyWalker. -Jeremy <font color="4682B4">(v^_^v Cardmaker) 07:17, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * How so?. The only links that must added are the official sites other than that it is spam.--SkyWalker (talk) 10:07, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:ELYES permits links other than the official site of the subject: it allows "sites that contain neutral and accurate material that cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues, amount of detail [or] other reasons." --McGeddon (talk) 10:33, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Ultimately, the external links have to be "helpful to the reader". What we have here is a fansite and a game guide. As a TF2 player, I've found it quite useful on occasion. However, from the reader's point of view when they've not played the game, they aren't going to be able to make heads or tails out of it. I don't believe that just because someone paid to put a fansite up on a host semi-related to Wikipedia, we have to link to it, not when it isn't a useful resource for the general reader. -- Sabre (talk) 10:58, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, "someone bought a domain and put a MediaWiki site on it" would be a silly reason to link to something. But I think the site meets "sites that contain neutral and accurate material that cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues, amount of detail", and has sufficient editors and stability that it doesn't fall foul of the WP:ELNO wiki line. --McGeddon (talk) 15:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * But how much of it is actually useful to the general reader, as put in the "page in a nutshell" part of EL? What we have here is a guide written by players for players. As I said above, I find it useful as a TF2 player, but a reader who's looking for more information would be confused by the player-orientated presentation of the information on that site, and would be far better advised to be linked to official sources or journalism sources covering the game. -- Sabre (talk) 15:40, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * A lot of it seems to be straightforward presentation and statistical analysis of maps, weapons and character-class details; I'd say it fell within the "professional athlete statistics, movie or television credits, interview transcripts" example of "too much detail for the article, fine for an external link" for WP:ELYES. It's a little dry, but no more baffling than sport statistics to a non-fan.
 * If there was an official source that had information approaching this level of detail, then there'd be fewer compelling reasons to link to TF2wiki, but the linked official sites are just a blog and some promotional screenshots and videos, at the moment. --McGeddon (talk) 17:42, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

How does TF2 disambiquously refer to Transformers 2? Transfomers is one word, and it's not called Transformers 2, but called Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen. ["TF2" redirects here. For the sequel to the Transformers film, see Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen.] should be removed.
 * Lots of the Transformers community calls that series 'TF'. Revenge of the Fallen is the 2nd movie.  Thus: TF2 could easily be an acronym used for it.  DP 76764  (Talk) 20:13, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

According to the Valve's TF2 blog, the TF2 Wiki is now an official site, so I think linking to it is appropriate now. WakiMiko (talk) 16:19, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * May be a bit redundant as it's clearly linked via the already linked main website. Although it's still an open wiki and WP:ELNO should still apply, I would not personally be opposed based it's official status. Rehevkor ✉  16:30, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I hadn't noticed that it was officialised. A Valve managed (if not necessarily edited) site is a different story in my mind than a random fan wikia, so I've reverted my removal of it. -- Sabre (talk) 21:54, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

"Leaked" Meet the Spy Video
I've seen throughout the internet that there is still debate as to whether the 'Meet the Spy' video was leaked on purpose or not. I figure this is not proof in itself but might weigh in somewhat during discussions. This is the HD Meet the Spy video off of Steam. Pause the video at 0:05 seconds. On screen is a giant board of words. "Intruder Alert", "Red Spy" and "In Base" are lit up. Look to the bottom left of the board. The bottom left most board says "Red Briefcase", I believe. Move one board above that, which reads "Hungry". And then -and this is the thing I want to point out- move one board to the right. The board there says "Leaked Video".

http://store.steampowered.com/app/5260/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.66.205.208 (talk) 22:57, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, that's original research unless a reliable source discusses it. DP 76764  (Talk) 23:21, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's probably an intentional thing or a nod to Internet "norms". Like how the copyright screens read "Copyright LOLOLOL". It was also released at the same time as the Sniper Vs. Spy update, so I can't see how the video being leaked at that point would have even made any difference. <font face="Papyrus" color="black">The Cake is a Lie T /  C 02:09, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The Leaked Video panel was added in the official release, in the leaked version, it said "Lost Memory." --96.241.163.178 (talk) 14:53, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Orange Box?
From the article it seems the game can be either purchased with the Orange Box, or alone through Steam. Does this mean the circa-15 dollar Team Fortress 2 released in stores dont support steam game? Or is it just that the version sold in stores is just not mentioned (and fully supports multiplayer accounts)? Thanks with clearing this out! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ergotoxin (talk • contribs) 16:17, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Steam doesn't exist for Xbox 360 or PS3, so ignore consoles for this - we're only talking about PC/Windows. You can buy the Orange Box (HL2Ep1+2, Portal, TF2 and Peggle Extreme) in DVD form from a high street or online store. You can also buy TF2 on its own this way. Both these combinations can also be bough through Steam, and downloaded to your hard drive instead of installing from a disc. However, TF2 does not exist without Steam - if you buy it on DVD, installing it installs Steam at the same time. The only benefit of the disc is that you don't have to wait for the large download (>3GB IIRC, although if you have any other Source games installed already the download is much smaller since it only has to download the TF2-specific content). —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 16:58, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Voices?
Does anybody know who voices the main characters? As in Heavy, Scout .ect -

All voice actors are mentioned here. Interestingly, the Pyro and the Spy have the same voice actor, as do the Heavy and the Demoman. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.89.179.189 (talk) 03:38, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Double references problem
Hi, guys! We have a problem. We have two different footnotes named "IGN": One defined in "Classes" section: The other in VG reviews box in "Reception" section: Since the article is using both, could someone rename one of it and check these references? Hołek &#1161; 18:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, I think I've done it myself. If there would be any reference mixed up, please correct. Hołek &#1161; 18:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Update main page to include classes which have recieved the update
Update main page to include classes which have recieved the update. So far it only shows that the Medic class have been completely been retooled. This should be changed according to the current status. "The Medic, Pyro, Heavy Weapons Guy, Scout, Sniper & Spy have been completely retooled by Valve". This can be verified both ingame and on www.teamfortress2.com 203.101.92.123 (talk) 12:04, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Its already all mentioned in the "Release and ongoing development" section. The bit in the reception section with "retooled" in it is solely within the context of medic criticism, it shouldn't have the other classes mentioned because it isn't relevant to the point being made. -- Sabre (talk) 12:43, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Request
I heard from the blog, the updates are planned in October, any conformation, or anyone want to add it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.112.67.200 (talk) 03:37, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Public response on game updates
Since TF2 is one of the rare game which enjoys full fledged development support, not only for bug fixes and minor update but also major additions and game modes, I feel it would do more good if the kind of response it has recieved from the gaming community is added. If it is allowed, I could try and put some thought in this. Reason for doing so is that the reviews and ratings here reflect tf2 at the time of launch and its value has only increased since its inception approximately two years ago. 202.87.62.22 (talk) 12:57, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, find a reliable source discussing how 'the value has grown' and it can be added. DP 76764  (Talk) 14:36, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

The Sniper's Origin?
Just looking at the video, I've got to say the sniper's accent is NOT australian. He almost sounds like he's from London. Any thoughts? I dont want to change the article but I really think so! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.132.98.155 (talk) 13:02, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's part of the joke according to the developers, most classes are badly accented to poke fun at the characters being based on an inaccurate stereotype. Something like that Skeith (talk) 09:57, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Hats Disagreement/Controversy Section
Should we have a section regarding controversy in-regards to TF2? The Hats, achievement maps, idling, framerate issues, stuttering, halos, and TF2-vs-FF issues all are relevant to TF2 in my personal opinion. 72.68.32.112 (talk) 13:18, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


 * 2nd this motion, it could do with a section  Captain n00dle  T/C 17:21, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Such content would require decent coverage in reliable third-party sources to do warrant addition. If you have such sources (forums, fansites and other self-published sources aren't appropriate), produce them. These sorts of things are only relevant to the article if proper sources cover it. In any case, a "controversy" section wouldn't be appropriate, it would better be put into a new paragraph in the "Release and ongoing development" section. -- Sabre (talk) 17:52, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

The following should be okay: (The statement by valve is here: ) Modifications have even been made by server operators to: There also seem to be a lot of anti-halo groups, most quite large. Including The model for the halo can also glitch, showing invisible spys if they have it equipped
 * http://www.incgamers.com/News/18390/community-uproar-over-tf2-item-removal
 * http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2009/09/04/team-fortress-2-taking-items-away-from-cheaters/
 * See also
 * Ban people with/without halos (no reference for this, I can't find one yet, but I know it has happened)
 * Remove halos
 * Change the halo to read something like 'fag'
 * "Medics refusing to heal people with halos"
 * "People celebrating the fact that they idled"
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoSUcC7SF0o can anyone else find a better reference? it is all over the forums, but I can't find a real reference!
 * Not sure that this counts... but still: http://nerfnow.com/comic/177/

Regards,  Captain n00dle  T/C 17:09, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Captain-n00dle (talk • contribs) 17:08, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Comics, forums, Steam groups, blogs and youtube posts all fail to qualify as reliable sources. Keep looking!  DP 76764  (Talk) 17:43, 8 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Does this take into account that most of these were the original sources of information? For example, public sourcemod plugins are released onto the sourcemod forum and normally no where else? There have been no news articles about the plugins or the bugs yet, and there are not likely to be any in the future, however they are completely documented in those posts. For sourcemod plugins it is simply easier to have the website in that format to comment on other's work. Its not like the posts are just someone gossiping!  Captain n00dle  T/C 18:07, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * ( p.s. I don't really know enough about referencing :-/ )
 * Well, Wikipedia prefers reliable, 3rd party sources (as explained in the policy I linked). Using primary sources is usually frowned upon, as any 'interpretation' made using them usually constitutes original research, which is definitely not allowed.  It doesn't matter if the posts are "in earnest" or just gossip; the point is that they are made by totally anonymous persons and there is no editorial oversight or fact checking involved.  If this is a big enough deal, there will eventually be reliable sources discussing it; if not, then it's probably not notable enough to mention in the article at all.  DP 76764  (Talk) 18:20, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Hurm, as another note, the whole point of citations is to make the article verifiable, these links provide that verification and add more weight than perhaps a second hand news article would? They should be classed as "Primary sources" as they document the original digital work?  Captain n00dle  T/C 18:15, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Please review the policy on reliable sources, particularly this part. DP 76764  (Talk) 18:21, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Censored in Germany?
Could anyone clarify if the game got censored in Germany? 22:23, 16 October 2009 (UTC) Cid SilverWing —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.166.178.16 (talk)
 * Yes it got, despite you need to be 18 to be allowed to play this game (PEGI rating was 16, and there is no sense in child protection if only 18 years old are allowed to play it). I was kind of pissed, when I buyed this game, because Valve never stated, that the game was consored. I complained and got my money back. If you gib someone or get gibbed instead of blood and gore you will get this http://tf2wiki.net/w/images/9/93/Party_gibs.png . This and a bad voice translation. 130.83.87.32 (talk) 11:33, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Aye; Meet the Soldier's German version is censored in a similar manner. - Jeremy  ( v^_^v Stop... at a WHAMMY!! ) 20:26, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

The game's backstory
We need to write a new section detailing the game's backstory, as revealed in recent updates. The article makes no mention of Mann Co., TF Industries, The Announcer, Saxton Hale, Zepheniah Mann, Redmond and Blutarch, or the fact that RED and BLU are actually owned by the same company and kept fighting for unknown purposes.

I think that with the Engineer Update (the last update currently known to be planned) Valve is finally going to reveal the world of TF2, the reasons why RED and BLU are fighting, and all that jazz.

We also need to mention how Valve has seeded the story since launch day (TF Industries has always been in the game) and how they have revealed it in updates and through comics. -- Love, Smurfy 18:15, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * While I do agree we do need to mention the backstory, your whole second paragraph is speculation and thus not something we can or should put in the article. —<font color="32CD32">Jeremy <font color="4682B4">(v^_^v Boribori!) 20:30, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

System requirements?
Anyone think that the system requirements bit needs updating, or at least notes? Since the numerous updates to the games I've known people whose performance has gotten worse, to the point of some not even being able to play the game.

I know Valve themselves haven't changed it as seen on the steam store page (http://store.steampowered.com/app/440/), but should it be kept official? Plus the stories of people upping their graphics to attain better framerates because processing gets transferred to the GPU and all that.

I run a Core2 Duo at 1.7GHz with 2GB DDR2 RAM and a GeForce 8400MS on multicore rendering, and still have everything set to low in order to run 15-40 FPS on average. Texture is on high because it doesn't seem to affect performance whatsoever.

And yeah I've been meaning to get an account. 206.21.96.139 (talk) 21:21, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds like something that is more relevant on Valve's forums than this talk page. I'm not sure why we mention system requirements here anyway. --Golbez (talk) 21:26, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Saxton Hale
Valve has made a great effort in making it's players aware of Saxton Hale, and he has become a major part of the "lore" of TF2, along with the Announcer. The closest reference you see to him in the actual game is the MANN CO. stamp on the Soldier's Direct Hit rocket launcher, though I would wager a major part of the community knows exactly who he is and what he represents to the game. He's made blog posts, been featured in update news, and even mailed letters to curious fans. I'm wondering if this deserves any kind of mention, or if we should keep to the game. EdenMaster (talk) 20:35, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Any independent coverage? Rehevkor ✉  20:42, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

There is also an unofficial gamemode. Mr.Mark 02:59, 30 October 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrMark1337 (talk • contribs)

Sandvich
I think that there should be a section about the cultural impacts of TF2 on the page. Does anyone agree?--Mamaluigisover9000 (talk) 01:02, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

IMDb link
I have never played this game, I do not play this game, and I never intend to play this game, but I'm wondering why it isn't okay to add a simple link to this game's IMDb page: --- Why can't we have this? dogman15 (talk) 21:00, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Hello Dogman15, the IMDB link is about the People who make the characters voice/sounds. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.115.31.208 (talk) 20:40, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Removed Vaporware
It's out. Why is it still on the Vaporware list? I took it off. Keep it off, people.--24.147.229.201 (talk) 14:18, 3 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Its in that category because its still noteworthy from the historical perspective as a prominent example of vapourware. Just because it was (eventually) released doesn't mean it never was vapourware. -- Sabre (talk) 16:53, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

It's Vaporware if it wasn't released. Keep it off. Or I have you reported for vandalism.--24.147.229.201 (talk) 20:55, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
 * That's not how you gain favor here. You discuss. I agree with Sabre, it was famous for being vaporware. Barack Obama isn't a senator anymore, but he'd still be categorized as one. :) --Golbez (talk) 21:32, 3 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Note that the parameters of the category are "articles on products (hardware, software, other) that can be considered (or were once considered) vaporware" (emphasis added), it is not meant to be a mere list of things currently considered vapourware. -- Sabre (talk) 21:49, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Clearly belongs in the category. IP warned for nearing 3RR. --M ASEM (t) 22:03, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from LordTim446, 10 October 2010
Please Edit Awards, [BLS] Seal of Approval for over all balanced Game Play. http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198013451295/home

LordTim446 (talk) 17:13, 10 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I can't seem to verify anything with that link. Can you provide another, preferably independent, source? What exactly is "[BLS]"? If it's just a group within the game it likely wouldn't be notable enough to mention in the article. Rehevkor ✉  17:41, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: As stated above, that award is not notable for inclusion in this article. Thanks, Stickee (talk)  03:24, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Rewrite of "ongoing development"
With so many updates it's become a bit unwieldy. Here is what I propose.

On the PC Team Fortress 2 has received over 100 updates ranging from bugfixes to feature and content additions. Beginning in April, 2008 with the Pyro update and ending in July, 2010 with the Engineer update the principal focus of updates were the so called class updates. Where each class given alternate weapons with different abilities, while putting in certain drawbacks to each unlockable weapon to maintain balance. Each class update also includes various other additions such as game modes, maps and cosmetic items such as hats or badges. These items are awarded to the player in a variety of ways; some items are promotional and require the player to own a game or buy a newly released game before a certain date, many weapons can be unlocked by completing specific achievements for that particular class, weapons that do not have achievements tied to them can be found by crafting other items together or found by the random drop system. To hasten obtaining these unlockable weapons and cosmetic hats, a minority of players began using third party programs that idle the player's client on a server whilst external to the game. In response, Valve removed any items gained using these programs, and awarded those who did not use these programs with a free hat. As a part of Valve's OS X gaming initiative a port of Team Fortress 2 to OS X was released on June 10, 2010 with special Earbud item given to players playing the game on a Mac before June 14, though the giveaway period was later extended to August 16. Community involvement has been a significant part of Team Fortress 2's ongoing development. Popular community made maps are usually included with major updates and in January, 2010 Valve started allowing users to submit additional content, such as hats, weapons and Steam avatars, through a contribution site. After a couple smaller updates with community created content Valve released the "Mann-Conomy" update which added 65 items, most of them community created, the Mann Co. Store where players can purchase items with funds added to their Steam wallet, and trading. The creators of the community made weapons and other items receive a 25% royalty of each sale which due to the popularity of some item sets resulted in substantial royalty checks. Which Valve flew the creators out to their studio to present to them personally, some totaling $47,000 USD for the first two weeks the store was open. Some of the updates involve the community directly during their reveal, the Solider and Demoman update was based around a supposed war between Soldier and Demoman classes fighting over new weapons. Throughout the 7 days of the update, players were encouraged to play the Soldier and Demoman classes, as every kill of the opposite class would add to a tally and the winning class would receive a fourth item. On the day of the release it was revealed that the Soldier had killed more Demomen, and the gunboats, the secret item, was given to the Soldier. They are boots which drastically reduce damage from rocket jumping and occupy the second weapon slot.

With some better copy editing and citations of course, but basically what I'm thinking of. That would replace the sentence or two about each update and the main paragraph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skeith (talk • contribs) 03:02, 23 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I like it. As you say, the prose is a bit shakey and needs some sprucing up slightly, but its organisation is much better than the ramshackle stuff on class updates that we've got. Slight correction to the facts though, the first class update was the Goldrush Update for the medic, not the pyro one. -- Sabre (talk) 11:47, 23 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Looks good, but the Medic was the first to receive a Class update, not the Pyro. EdenMaster (talk) 13:51, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

What type of game is this
The first paragraph does not mention anywhere what type of video game this is. It should be in the first sentence. I came here to figure out what kind of game it is and I still don't know, or I would add it myself. Byates5637 (talk) 21:57, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I have restored the first sentence to how it was a few months ago. It was probably accidentally cut out during the usual "hat simulator" vandalism. Rehevkor ✉  22:01, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Updates
This. Apparently content and modifications which have more than doubled the game's content and significantly altered the way many players view the game apparently simply aren't "significant or critical to game's understanding". Brother Valencio (talk) 15:21, 15 January 2011 (UTC)


 * The details of every single update aren't important. Major changes - like item sharing and the store - are, and can be included, but we have no need to call out patch-by-patch. --M ASEM  (t) 15:36, 15 January 2011 (UTC)


 * This isn't a patch-by-patch call out. There are tonnes of little changes Valve made which have been missed out. But IMO, if Valve deemed it big enough to deserve a big promotional page on the TF2 website, it deserves a section. Australian Christmas introduced an entirely new game mode and you took it out, so I'm not entirely sure how you're deciding whether things are important or not. And given the importance with which Valve have given them, item sets at the very least deserve a mention (if I was given free reign, I would just create an entirely separate section to cover the game's 90+ items so they can be given the space and time they deserve without clogging up the updates section). Brother Valencio (talk) 15:48, 15 January 2011 (UTC)


 * What I'm saying is that from an encyclopedic standpoint, what each patch exactly did is not important - it is the net accumulation of those effects we want to report. I've edited this section to call out crafting, trading, and the store, and the three new modes (training, highlander, and medieval) (some of this stuff was missing before) And no, we are not a game guide - calling out every game item is not appropriate at all.  --M ASEM  (t) 15:59, 15 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, meh. I can see you're probably right here, although I still think the three or four items that drastically change a class' role and play style (like the Chargin' Targe) deserve a mention. Brother Valencio (talk) 16:22, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Valve Task Force Re-vitalization
Attention, all contributors to the Valve Task Force and the articles it constitutes!

I am here to announce that I will be re-vitalizing the Valve Task Force, aimed at universally improving articles constituting Valve Corporation, their employees, associates and products. This specific task force has been dormant for quite some time and with two very notable releases coming out this year, I feel like this is the appropriate time to re-stimulate the general aim of this group. For those who are not already members of the Valve Task Force, feel free to add your name to our members list and contribute to whatever articles you feel your contributions may prove beneficial for. Valve, its products and notable employees have proven to be essential to the progression of the video game industry, so I'd like to make a call of arms for this cause. D arth B otto talk•cont 22:11, 08 February 2011 (UTC)

"Dalokohs Bar" mispelled
In the section about the Heavy in characters. the name of the "Dalokohs Bar" is mispelled as "Dalakohs Bar", can someone fix this? 66.59.49.88 (talk) 14:54, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ Done. -- I need a name (talk) 18:18, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Japan Charity mention?
should the Japan charity be mentioned in the article? It raised over $400,000 from the players, and citation could come from the Team Fortress 2 Blog. If it should, where should it go in the article? Release and Ongoing Developing? Croben (talk) 16:36, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

PS) The mention will be up for 12 seconds. heh.

Linux/WINE?
Even though the Linux operating system is not supported by VALVe for client-programs (servers they do support), it's a known fact that Team Fortress 2 along with Steam can work inside of WINE and run on par with the performance of Windows/OS X systems. Perhaps adding Linux (with WINE) under Platforms should be considered. Now that it is a Free to Play title, I would say it's a good idea to promote some Linux gaming as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.16.46.36 (talk) 03:05, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Unless Linux is officially supported by Valve it has no place in the infobox. Promotion should never be a reason to include anything in the article. If, however, the ability to play in Linux is covered by reliable sources, it could be mentioned somewhere in the article. Rehevkor ✉  03:12, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Free to play
The game has now gone free (http://store.steampowered.com/app/440/). The article needs to be updated to reflect this. --77.215.75.103 (talk) 16:24, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It has. Rehevkor ✉  16:45, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

after a week after
There is a typo in the free to play section. The error is grammatical, search "after a week after" in the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.45.227.75 (talk) 14:56, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Snipers melee weapon
In the article, it states the Snipers melee weapon is a machete, when it is clearly a kukri, according to the weapon description, and the look of the weapon itself. Thoughts? Detective Sudo (talk) 11:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It seems to use both within the article, although in the FAQ above says to use kukri per the in game inventory. Although the source attached to both says machete.. Rehevkor  ✉  12:40, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The game calls it a kukri, that's what it should be called here. -- Sabre (talk) 15:44, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Promo Hats (Marketing Section)
"[...]According to Robin Walker, Valve introduced these additional hats as an indirect means for players to show status within the game or their affiliation with another game series simply by visual appearance[95] (although a chosen few hats provide stat bonuses when combined with certain equipment).[96]"

Are there actually any promo hats that provide bonuses? I haven't seen any hat available for promotional reasons that would go with an item set. 12.28.164.2 (talk) 16:58, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

nevermind. I guess the part in the brackets is refering to hats in general, not just the promo hats. Is it possible to clarify that somehow? 12.28.164.2 (talk) 17:08, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Do we really need the cosplay image?
I think it's a bit embarrassing to see. Do we really need it there?--Kingplatypus 00:16, 22 January 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kingplatypus (talk • contribs)

Hats
We need a section about hats. Wikipedian192 (talk) 03:34, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No we don't. What's in there about hats and other customization options is sufficient. --M ASEM  (t) 03:50, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Added a section for competitive
Let me know if there's anything that I could do to make it clearer for people who have never played. I've been playing TF2 for years so sometimes I can forget how confusing it is for people who don't play. Imcrs (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:49, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Official Linux support incoming.
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/10/valve-to-launch-steam-linux-beta-at-uds Intelligent Deathclaw (talk) 11:47, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

I added a bit about the Linux support, but I don't know the requirements needed to play the game on Linux. Goatcheese3 (talk) 07:05, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

-- It's now available for free through the Steam client for Linux. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.76.45.151 (talk) 22:54, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

About that hats section thing
The hats in team fortress 2 are more than customization, as they have created a community of people who dedicate hours to get the best hats to trade. — Preceding unsigned comment added by POOTISHOOVYPANCAKES (talk • contribs) 01:38, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Old thread, but still; hats aren't an integral part of the game. Sure, there's a lot of hat trading, but still; this is about the game, not it's community. Dromaeosaurus is best dinosaur (talk) 16:44, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Though it should be noted that the microtransaction aspects (which includes hat buying) of TF2 are rather notable now, with people making money off it. We do note for that one Community update that several content creators got payouts from sales from it. --M ASEM (t) 16:54, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, those such things would be notable; they are a part of the game and it's economy, after all. Putting an entire section that can be summized as "Some players have spent periods of time looking for higher-quality items (including hats, weapons and other items) to trade to other players." isn't too noteworthy. The same is also why I assume we don't have a "Fan modification" section; it'd really just be "Many fan-made maps and variations on pre-existing maps exist, as do various weapon modifications and custom HUDs.", with maybe one or two examples of maps. Dromaeosaurus is best dinosaur (talk) 18:14, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Moar userboxes.
I wanted to experiment on making userboxes, and this is what I got from it. Do tell me if you like the look of these, it's my first time making userboxes, and I threw in some explanation as well (the names for the userboxes have some references in them, for some of the classes). The names (these go after "Template:Userbox/") are "teamfort2", "sniper", "scout", "engineer", "MEDIC!", "shpee", "sandvich", "hudda", "maggots" and "nowextinct". (Sorry for the massive space between the userbox code and this text in the edit screen, t'is a unfortunate compromise to make this look good) Dromaeosaurus is best dinosaur (talk) 18:15, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Team Fortress Comics #3 is out
http://www.teamfortress.com/tf03_cold_day_in_hell/

Might want to update the "Plot" section. 68.225.228.213 (talk) 06:17, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 January 2014
in the description of the plot, red's abbreviated name is spelled wrong, "e" stands for excavation

Firewarrior2112 (talk) 21:31, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Jackmcbarn (talk) 23:56, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Ms. Pauling's name is spelled "ms. paul" in the last paragraph of the storyline — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.239.72.232 (talk) 22:00, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Xbox 360 version?
I have checked on the Xbox LIVE game database and Team Fortress 2 is not available to download and play on the Xbox 360. Did Valve or Microsoft disband the game? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Toughcookie1234 (talk • contribs) 18:53, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * It's available under "The Orange Box" as it was never a standalone product there. --M ASEM (t) 18:56, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

I edited the word "an" to "and" in your sentence, Tough. I'm a huge grammar-obsessed freak and it bugs me to see things like this. Hope you do not mind. Your friend, Billy (talk) 19:21, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

This article isn't worthy of Good Article status
I hate to say it, but there it is: I don't think this article is worthy of GA status, at least not any more. The main reason is the writing: it really needs a thorough copy edit. It's unnecessarily wordy and some sections are very long and dense. The prose also contains some errors; for example, the free-to-play section used to say revenue had "increased 12 times", when the source says "increased by a factor of 12", two very different statements. I've already done some copy editing here and there, and broken the classes section into subsections, and I'd like to hear if other editors agree or disagree. Popcornduff (talk) 23:28, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
 * WP:SOFIXIT applies. Undoubtedly, many edits have been performed since its promotion to GA, and occasionally a bad edit slips through. Then you come along and fix thing up. And as long as no one protests, you are doing a good job. The silence just makes the job seem thankless.  23:38, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 January 2015
In '3.6 Supported peripheral hardware' please replace "Occulus Rift" with "Oculus Rift". This typo is seriously making my eyes burn.

83.142.58.162 (talk) 17:50, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ - X201 (talk) 18:11, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

M Rated
How is the game M Rated. The violence is not ultra-gory and why is this M rated. This game could have been T rated for language, drug use and suggestive humor LucaElliot2 (talk) 17:46, 25 June 2014 (UTC) LucaElliot2
 * The game WAS in fact rated by the ESRB as "M". It may have been a rating given to the entire orange box, but then again maybe not.  Anyways, this is a question more suited towards the ESRB. Rockintyler8 (talk) 18:36, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
 * There are some pretty gory violence moments and, at the very least, a lot of blood, which often leads to games like CoD that are otherwise unexceptional in violence intensity being rated M. Tezero (talk) 15:38, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Well — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.254.77.227 (talk) 14:17, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Trading
In the trading section, it says that the weapons do not change gameplay, while it should say that the cosmetics do not affect gameplay, because most of the weapons differ in function or stats from the default. I'd do it myself, but I've not been autoconfirmed yet. Lennbot (talk) 10:20, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi, so are you suggesting to change "These weapons are usually cosmetic and do not impact gameplay." to "The cosmetics of the weapons do not impact gameplay."? Stickee (talk) 05:22, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
 * More along the lines of "These weapons change the playstyle of the classes, but the cosmetic items, such as hats, badges and other items of clothing do not affect gameplay." Lennboticus (talk) 10:31, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay, done. Stickee (talk) 22:20, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

54 players?!?!
There's no citation for the 54 player claim, and I've talked with someone who is a valve game expert from /r/TF2. There are no 54 player servers, nor is there a way to do this.--Rockintyler8 (talk) 02:21, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

I can confirm this. Source's multi-player capability is only limited to 24 players but the rarest servers handle 30 players so claiming TF2 having 54 players is noting but nonsense (exception of 90 player servers on DarkRP in Garry's Mod because of having a substantially modified engine). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Penguin330 (talk • contribs) 05:58, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 May 2015
Vac 2 was the chosen Anti-Cheat for Team Fortress 2.

In July 2010, several players who successfully used information leaked from Valve to increase their chances of finding a rare Team Fortress 2 weapon/tool called the Golden Wrench found themselves banned by VAC.

In June 2011, an unknown false positive detection caused a handful of Team Fortress 2 owners to become banned.

Following the events of false bans Vac 2 is no longer supporting Team Fortress 2. Team Fortress 2 instead is given a script to ban anyone who downloads certain links from known "cheating websites", because of trolling and proxy this method was also abandoned. As stated by Gabe Newell.

Intension of abuse_report_queue is not to report cheaters or bugs. The purpose of abuse report queue or pressing F7 by default is to get collect data to see if people would give data of certain types. all of the requests go to data mining and are never read by a person and all sends are saved for future study. As stated by Valve they are not for banning cheaters or helping resolve bugs. To do so one must go into the forums or send for help threw vac forums.

68.7.205.180 (talk) 01:08, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: There are multiple issues with your request:
 * It's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.
 * Please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --I am  k6ka  Talk to me!   See what I have done  02:09, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Split Plot into new page
The "Plot" section is becoming an increasingly problematic eyesore on this article, and I feel that it has no place here anymore as it entirely deals with the comic series rather than the game itself. Almost none of the comics' plot is exposed in the game, and no additional context from the comic is required to understand the concept of the game - it is, more or less, an on-the-side thing that only provides an optional backstory. The comic series is still ongoing, meaning that the Plot section is still incomplete, and is just going to indefinitely expand in length and become increasingly irrelevant to the article if we continue adding onto it every time a new volume is released. Even if it were strictly about the video game, it's still an overly drawn-out retelling of the entire story that really has no place in a plot synopsis. It just seems very out-of-place for an article with Good Article standing.

With all of this said, I propose splitting the Plot section to a new article such as Team Fortress 2 (comic).  Protoss  Pylon  19:09, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, it is better to cut it down, as there's little sourcing directly about the TF2 comic (outside as a promotional tool), instead of splitting it. A TF2 Wikia is better to have those details. --M ASEM (t) 19:10, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It shouldn't even be presented a "Plot" section if absolutely none of this happens during the game. It looks like "Marketing" already covers this appropriately, with a heavy paragraph summarising the comic plotline, its context as expanding a "cross-media property" and plenty of secondary sources - I'd say just delete the "Plot" section. --McGeddon (talk) 19:36, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I think it should be split because new content is influenced by the comics in some situations. - Emil Sayahi (talk) 01:56, 10 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Also we need to put up some more story-lines. Heavy and Scout went to Australia and met Saxton Hale in big-rock, Meanwhile Soldier(And his russian girl friend),Spy,Demoman went to newzealand, which have been sunked before years ago, to meet Sniper's parents. Soldier and other mates successfully met sniper's parents but sniper's mother, escape from newzealand buy rocket which his husband made, and sniper's father also escape from newzealand using submarine which Soldier used.

At that very moment, the betrayed Red Medic and other TF-classic team rushes into newzealand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 175.252.149.195 (talk) 16:12, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
 * So lets say it was split. Does that mean the new article only contains a plot section?. I stand with McGeddon's suggestion to delete the section.-- Chamith  (talk)  21:37, 19 November 2014 (UTC)


 * The bulk of the story is really not necessary. I think a brief summation - establishing the idea of Red vs Blu, the hiring of mercenaries, etc. is fine, but we do not need the level of detail here. --M ASEM (t) 22:16, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
 * But if we split it into its own article we could include all that extra info and then only have the basics here. Anarchyte (talk) 08:00, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
 * We are not to have pages on plot-alone. TF2 wiki does a fine job of covering the fiction of the game. We are writing this from the point of view of a reader that likely never has played TF2 nor likely will. --M ASEM (t) 13:34, 19 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I've deleted the plot section. I agree completely with McGeddon's comment. --The1337gamer (talk) 23:00, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Spotted something
"In early June 2015, the "Gun Mettle" update was released"

This is not right. The update came out on the 2nd of July, not June. The source cited for this fact says so as well. 217.123.33.101 (talk) 03:05, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Fixed, thanks for notifying. --The1337gamer (talk) 10:10, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, sorry for that mistake, . <font face="Papyrus"><font color="#2D8C1F" face="Papyrus">Ana <font color="#29851C">r <font color="#35BA22">chyte  10:22, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Merasmus and the Bombinonicon have no listed voice actors
I wanted to bring that up since in the NPC section, all the characters besides these 2 have a voice actor alongside their names. Tanner Ghosen (talk) 14:24, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
 * It says at the end of the sentence that they are voiced by Nolan North along with the Mann Brothers. --The1337gamer (talk) 14:26, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Why was this semi-protected?
Why was this semi-protected? There doesn't seem to be a lot - if any vandalism attempts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.168.39.153 (talk) 15:14, 2 December 2015‎ (UTC)
 * There aren't a lot vandalism attempts BECAUSE it's semi-protected. The protection is the result of long term repeated vandalism that occurred before protection was applied... -- ferret (talk) 15:18, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 December 2015
Competitive play Team Fortress 2 is played competitively, through multiple leagues. The North American league ESEA supports a paid Team Fortress 2 league, with $10,080 in prizes for the top teams in 2012.[39] In addition, Team Fortress 2 is played in multiple free-to-play leagues including UGC (United Gaming Clans), ETF2L in Europe.[40][41] and AsiaFortress in Asia[42]. Team Fortress 2 is played competitively commonly in one of three gamemodes: Highlander (one of each class, 9 players per team), 6v6 (2 Scouts, 2 Soldiers, 1 Demoman, and 1 Medic with other classes used in certain situations), or 4v4 (1 Scout, 1 Soldier, 1 Demoman, and 1 Medic, with other classes used often). While formalized competitive gameplay is very different from normal Team Fortress 2, it offers an environment with a much higher level of teamwork than in public servers (also known as "pubs"). Most teams use a VOIP program to communicate, and use a combination of strategy, communication, and aiming ability to win against other teams. Many competitive leagues also feature an item banlist (also known as a "whitelist"), in order to speed up gameplay and remove untested or undesirable strategies from matches.[citation needed] Valve has revealed they plan to implement a matchmaking system based on these two modes, similar to that of Counter-Strike: Global Offensive.[43] About the item banlist: http://www.ugcleague.com/files_tf2h.cfm   and a Highlander whitelist: http://www.ugcleague.com/files/configs/HL_whitelist/item_whitelist_ugc_HL.txt

I don't know how you'd go about referencing them but they do exist. The main purpose of whitelists in games is to ban unfair or new untested weapons, as well as certain taunts (such as the High-Five Taunt) which can impact gameplay.

89.168.39.153 (talk) 14:51, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: We'd need a reliable source to cover the usage of the whitelists in competitive leagues. The existence of whitelists themselves doesn't really solve the citation needed template. -- ferret (talk) 15:21, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 December 2015
Sorry, but you left the new (well not exactly new) Pass time gummed thing.

DIAMONDYOLO (talk) 12:59, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. -- ferret (talk) 14:25, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Steamgames.com good, gametrailers.com bad, due to having a flash video that's missing. I would normally try to find the new URL for that video but Gametrailers is shutting down it's video content anyways... -- ferret (talk) 13:03, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

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Competitive scene edits
As seen in this revert. This edit is relying on a Wiki for most of its sourcing. Wikis are user generated and not acceptable as reliable sources. The other sources in use are primary sources and have to be used carefully. They do not support their statements (For example you can't link the game's store page to support that players have decreased "in recent times") -- ferret (talk) 16:42, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Game Mode Shortening
I have removed some of the game modes that are rarely played, or not listed in the Casual game mode selection screen. If you think this was a bad edit, feel free to revert it back

--Bedsidelamp (talk) 17:02, 7 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I don't think removing all the information on two modes fixes the overly detailed problem. Each mode needs to be condensed and summarised better. --The1337gamer (talk) 18:12, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 April 2017
I have been playing Team Fortress 2 Since 2007 and Team fortress Classic since 2001. There are a few factual errors i would like to correct. Thank you. Stoopid monkey (talk) 21:08, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Murph 9000 (talk) 21:30, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Competitive mode addition
There should be a section regarding the new officially supported competitive mode that came along with the Pyro Vs Heavy update in the post-release section, as well as a link to the official Team Fortress Wiki in the external links section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nathanjo (talk • contribs) 13:37, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Acroynm
The acronym TF2 isn't important for understanding the subject, and I think we should omit it from the article. I support Lordtobi's removal of the acronym. I mentioned Dota 2 in my edit summary as an example of a case where an abbreviation is important - Dota 2 is almost always referred to by the acronym Dota 2. This article isn't like that. As for the PlayStation articles, see WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Popcornduff (talk) 04:36, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I am incredibly confused; you’re telling me that “Dota 2” is an acronym for “Dota 2.” That makes zero sense. How high are you right now?


 * Anyway, it’s important to know what the commonly used and official abbreviation of Team Fortress 2 is. It’s almost as important as the title of the game itself.


 * As for the PlayStation articles, my argument was valid. I can name countless articles that mention the abbreviation in the first sentence: PlayStation, PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, PlayStation 4, Nintendo 3DS, Transformice, frames per second, World of Warcraft, Cyanide & Happiness, Heroes of the Storm… Do you want me to go on? <font face="Papyrus"><font color="#0020C2">― <font color="#0000A0">PapíDimmi  <font color="#571B7E">( <font color="#4AA02C">talk | <font color="#4AA02C">contribs <font color="#571B7E">)  04:42, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The game is very often referred to as "TF2". Official site, Offical Wiki, Esports Edition, GameSpot. The list goes on. No harm in keeping it there. Dota2 is an abbreviation of Defence of the Ancients 2. <font face="Papyrus"><font color="#3ab628">Anarchyte  ( work  &#124;  talk )  04:43, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Popcornduff said, and I quote, “Dota 2 is almost always referred to by the acronym Dota 2.” That makes no sense, as Dota 2 is the full title of the game, not an acronym. <font face="Papyrus"><font color="#0020C2">― <font color="#0000A0">PapíDimmi  <font color="#571B7E">( <font color="#4AA02C">talk | <font color="#4AA02C">contribs <font color="#571B7E">)  04:47, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * But the title DOTA2 was originally an acronym standing for "Defence of the Ancients". You know that. Popcornduff (talk) 04:56, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Since TF2 can mean a lot of things, we should not assume that in the first place that TF2 is an abbreviation that is the most common under primary and secondary (note though, not tertiary) sources. Sure, I also use TF2 lke this, but we would rather check correctly first, then argue. Looking into the case, we do find a lot of sources prominently using TF2—of that 90% by PC Gamer or Kotaku—but that is not a good reason for inclusion yet. Once the abbreviation is properly sourced, we need to see if it is viable of inclusion in terms of necessity to the article: "Team Fortress 2" is 15 characters, four syllables long, that is not quite a length the everyday reader would be tought an abbreviation of (we don't employ an abbreviation for Saudi Arabia either). Compare it on a subject on its own level—Titanfall 2—and you will see the alike: no abbreviation necessary. On the contrary, pages like Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, which is 32 characters, 8 syllables, incorporates an abbreviation to shorten just these (also, the abbreviation is not ambigous, where TF2 is; bad country comparison: United Arab Emirates). Now that we have the unnecessity of the abbreviation, I would also like to address that everything mentioned in the lede should be crucial to the understanding of the article, that is developer and publisher, release period, genre, name, etc. An abbreviation is almost never crucial, unless it is prominently used throughout the article to save oneself to write it out (lazyness), which is the case for the CS:GO and UAE articles, but not for the Team Fortress 2 and Saudi Arabia articles (note here that this "format" should not be changed by format retain policies, just to prove a point). In conclusion, "TF2" fails two of three criteria for inclusion, "length/complexity" and "article usage" [and only passes "popularity"], wherefore it should not be included in the article as not being crucial to it, while also being ambigous to [at least] Titanfall 2. Be that just my opinion or WP:COMMONSENSE is your descission, but the above is my stance on the issue, and if you feel like there is an issue with that you may refute my claims with a more logical rationale. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 09:10, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I provided 11 different sources, yet you still revert my revision? The abbreviation is official and extremely common, so why do you think that it shouldn’t be mentioned in the article? <font face="Papyrus"><font color="#0020C2">― <font color="#0000A0">PapíDimmi  <font color="#571B7E">( <font color="#4AA02C">talk | <font color="#4AA02C">contribs <font color="#571B7E">)  09:20, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Is it important? It doesn't aid understanding of the subject. It's just fluff. Popcornduff (talk) 09:25, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Why I reverted your edit? WP:STATUSQUO, that's why. I even linked it beforehand, but seemingly you did not read it. Why I think it shouldn't be mentioned in the article? I don't know about you, but I can see a lengthy explanation I posted ten minutes ago just above. Your sourcing proves my point that it matches one criteria, but does not disprove that it does not match the other. Your above response has actually replied to nothing I talked about. If you wish for inclusion, take in common sense and try to find a more logical rationale than my above, instead of mass-hammering sources into the article where far from necessary, edit warring your way around the discussion. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 09:26, 7 May 2017 (UTC)


 * It is important because it is a wildly used abbreviation used by every website on Earth. It is even used by Valve themselves.


 * “Team Fortress 2” needs to be abbreviated because humans are lazy, and we abbreviate everything. Typing or saying “Team Fortress 2” every time you need to mention the game is extremely tedious.


 * Okay, so judging from your wall of text (please learn to use paragraphs), you don’t think it’s necessary to mention anywhere in the Team Fortress 2 article what the common, official abbreviation for the game’s title is, because you feel as though “Team Fortress 2” isn’t long enough. Is there some sort of obscure policy on Wikipedia that says “Important information about abbreviations need not be mentioned if the words don’t consist of fifty syllables.” I’ve already provided several sources for the abbreviation “TF2,” including the official Team Fortress 2 website of Valve Corporation themselves.


 * Just because “TF2” isn’t used in the article (although it is used in a large portion of the citations), it is still a vital part of the article, as “TF2” is, like I’ve said several times, an extremely common abbreviation, which is also an official one. Not mentioning the abbreviation is like not mentioning the title of the game itself. <font face="Papyrus"><font color="#0020C2">― <font color="#0000A0">PapíDimmi  <font color="#571B7E">( <font color="#4AA02C">talk | <font color="#4AA02C">contribs <font color="#571B7E">)  09:34, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * As stated above, my "wall of text" reflects my opinion based upon logicality and common sense, I don't think that there is a strict guideline to this, but as being a disputed topic, the current discussion would not result in any consensus (2 vs. 2) and WP:STATUSQUO—the original version without abbrevation—would be left in place. In order to resolve this, I would like to invite a few more experienced editors to join in on the discussion: . Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 09:50, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I am unfortunately not very experienced with nonsensical, unsourced opinions like this. <font face="Papyrus"><font color="#0020C2">― <font color="#0000A0">PapíDimmi  <font color="#571B7E">( <font color="#4AA02C">talk | <font color="#4AA02C">contribs <font color="#571B7E">)  09:52, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I've got no strong opinion on this matter, I just listed a few sources that used TF2 as an abbreviation. I don't mind whether it's left in or out, so going by only head-counting it'd be a 1 v 2. I agree that until this discussion is closed, it should be omitted from the article. <font face="Papyrus"><font color="#3ab628">Anarchyte ( work  &#124;  talk )  10:04, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * It is not your job to judge other's opinions, watch your civility. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 09:53, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Am I not allowed to have an opinion of my own? <font face="Papyrus"><font color="#0020C2">― <font color="#0000A0">PapíDimmi  <font color="#571B7E">( <font color="#4AA02C">talk | <font color="#4AA02C">contribs <font color="#571B7E">)  09:55, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * There is indeed a difference between having an opinion and judging others'. This discussion isn't going anywhere like this. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 09:57, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I am just having an opinion about your opinion.


 * Anyway, this discussion isn’t going anywhere until these so-called “experienced editors” join the conversation, apparently. <font face="Papyrus"><font color="#0020C2">― <font color="#0000A0">PapíDimmi  <font color="#571B7E">( <font color="#4AA02C">talk | <font color="#4AA02C">contribs <font color="#571B7E">)  09:58, 7 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Adding TF2 is unnecessary. What does it add to the understanding of the subject? Per WP:TONE, we don't write TF2 in the article body, but use the full and formal Team Fortress 2. By mentioning TF2 in the lead without any context or explanation is vague. Wikipedia is written for a large audience, not for gamers: how would the average reader gather that TF2 is the acronym used by people familiar with the game? Here's a WP:OTHERSTUFF argument: why doesn't The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (arguably one of video gaming's best) mention LoZ: OoT in the lead? Because it's not encyclopedic. Same for other A, GA and featured articles. soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 10:57, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Im generally against its inclusion as well. The reader can make this connection themselves, without brutally obvious pointers like this. Sergecross73   msg me  12:10, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Also agreed. While TF2 is the official abbreviation, it just seems amateur to use it in the article in place of Team Fortress 2. The only legitimate time Wikipedia should use abbreviations in common usage is for organizations and sports leagues, not video games. ~ Dissident93  ( talk ) 17:07, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

The abbreviation is prominently (in titles) used in reliable sources: GameSpot, PC Gamer, RPS, VG247, Destructoid, GRev, etc. It is, of course, nowhere near WP:COMMONNAME or such, but omitting it would be omitting a relevant piece of information that is seen in reliable sources. — HELL KNOWZ  ▎TALK 12:47, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * This is something I also agree with: while I would agree that "TF2" fails a common name test, it is used frequently enough in external sources that we should at least acknowledge its presence so that readers, wanting to research the game more, know to look or understand what TF2 is. I do agree with want to avoid unnecessary abbreviations in the lede sentence which may only be used by a game's playerbase, but this is a case where there is definitely use in sources that would be helpful to identify. --M ASEM (t) 14:28, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Say that an average reader would want to look up TF2 specifically, they would type that in, right? They'd be shown that disambiguation page, which explains the different TF2's out there, including Team Fortress 2. What are the benefits of introducing an acronym that isn't used in the article? PS4 is the "official" acronym, used in its logos and communication. How would the general reader gather that is used "frequently"? soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 17:32, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is supposed to document all important information about a subject, and “TF2” is an important, extremely common, and official abbreviation, used by plenty of reliable sources. I can add a hundred sources which use this abbreviation, and the abbreviation still should not be included? Wikipedia is supposed to teach readers about the game, and its abbreviation is an important thing to know. The article currently doesn’t mention the abbreviation whatsoever, so how will readers know what “TF2” stands for or how to abbreviate “Team Fortress 2”?


 * By the way, following this “logic,” the abbreviations should be completely removed from the articles PlayStation, PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, PlayStation 4, Nintendo 3DS, Transformice, frames per second, World of Warcraft, Cyanide & Happiness, Heroes of the Storm, Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, etc., right? <font face="Papyrus"><font color="#0020C2">― <font color="#0000A0">PapíDimmi  <font color="#571B7E">( <font color="#4AA02C">talk | <font color="#4AA02C">contribs <font color="#571B7E">)  22:51, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * If the person got to this page by searching "Team fortress 2", they may not necessarily know about the acronym. And while most good sources will introduce the term before using the acronym, at least in my own experience in working with google, having the acronym can help reveal hits that may not have been gotten by the full term. --M ASEM (t) 23:30, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Clearly, TF2 is a widely used abbreviation, even by reliable sources. Recommend Team Fortress 2 (TF2), in line with MOS:ACRO and MOS:BOLDSYN. In line with MOS, and without the unnecessary verboseness of (abbreviated as...) and "also known as". 5 characters won't hurt us. Note, this has also been the result at the three PlayStation articles as well. -- ferret (talk) 19:10, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, judging from these guidelines, it seems to me like this is the right option. It is moronic not to include the abbreviation in the article, so I have included it now, per the guidelines which you mentioned. Change it it I made a federal mistake or something.


 * Anyway, my apologies for edit warring earlier. I’m surprised I haven’t been permanently blocked on Wikipedia by now, because I kind of think that I should. <font face="Papyrus"><font color="#0020C2">― <font color="#0000A0">PapíDimmi  <font color="#571B7E">( <font color="#4AA02C">talk | <font color="#4AA02C">contribs <font color="#571B7E">)  02:50, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2018
(SPELLING CHANGE) In the fourth paragraph of the game modes section under gameplay, change consist to consists, and there to their. SyncHeart (talk) 14:40, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done -- ferret (talk) 14:43, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Edit Request
In the first paragraph of the Gameplay section, please add something describing that the normal player limit of servers is 24. There is text describing a limit of 16, and a limit of 32, so why does the paragraph not list the default limit? If you need a source, look at most of the servers online right now. 2607:FCC8:C2C4:5B00:B51A:4510:37C2:F62B (talk) 23:20, 1 May 2018 (UTC) Random bloke in America

Semi-protected edit request on 14 November 2018
Change Heavy's origin from Europe to Russia (USSR). IceboundCat6 (talk) 00:09, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DannyS712 (talk) 00:39, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 December 2018
Change "were" to "where" Zuckinson (talk) 04:11, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Fixed. I think I found it and I made this fix, but next time please be more specific about where the error is. Thanks! RudolfRed (talk) 04:21, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Regarding need for citations
I see the section for game modes is listed as needing more citations and some sentences are tagged as citation needed. I am unfamiliar with the protocol for citing game mechanics. These are just things in the game one can see by playing, and the game does not have a detailed website that explains the mechanics. As someone who plays, I can vouch for the accuracy of the information (at least, the sentences I skimmed with the citation needed tag were accurate). As far as I know, there aren't any kind of writings to cite for these game mechanics. Do they really need to be cited? I would suggest in good faith that we remove the template for needed citations in the Game Modes section. Also, I would request an edit in the competitive play section to clarify that competitive leagues (like ESEA) are third parties not related to the game's developers (in contrast to the developer's dedicated matchmaking). BishopsHouseofHorrors (talk) 01:06, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 December 2018
In the part of the page where it describes the Pyro, it says they are a mentally unstable pyromaniac. They likely aren't, because if you read their mask, it says optical mask, implying that it changes what they see. This is called Pyroland in game. 2600:6C46:7C00:1BB2:7CA5:7591:FC35:3341 (talk) 01:31, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. -- ferret (talk) 01:33, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Pyrovision_Goggles, and the item's description. Also, as previously noted, "optical mask". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.41.102.117 (talk • contribs)
 * Wikis are not reliable sources, see WP:USERG. -- ferret (talk) 01:05, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

It is an official Wiki for the game, and the game even links the wiki in the Mann Co. store. Optical mask. I will not try to get this added to the page after this last attempt. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6c46:7c00:3c2b:6c2d:47b7:a41f:95b7 (talk • contribs)

Edit Request
I request having a link to the official Team Fortress wiki at the top of the page telling users to click it for more in-depth details about Mechanics, Maps, etc https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Main_Page The Kickster (talk) 20:44, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
 * We do not promote external wikis like this. --M asem (t) 22:41, 13 August 2019 (UTC)


 * However this is the official Valve-supported wiki. Should we make an exception in this case? YuriNikolai (talk) 23:00, 13 August 2019 (UTC)


 * It's still a user-made wiki, even if Valve is hosting it. At best, we could discuss including it as an External link (but the current official page links to it, so I don't see an immediate need). It certainly cannot be placed as suggested. --M asem (t) 23:04, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 September 2019
The "Video games containing loot boxes" category should be applied to this page, seeing how Team Fortress 2 is arguably the first Western video game to implement the mechanic. 64.43.19.203 (talk) 23:08, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done. --Chilors (talk) 10:31, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Game modes section needing citations
I added a few references to the game modes section, and I removed the two Citation needed templates. Is there anything else the secion needs, or can we agree to remove the maintenance template? --Chilors (talk) 17:05, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done. It's been over two years and a lot of references have been added since then. Nobody said anything against the removal of the template so I assume it's okay to do it. --Chilors (talk) 12:40, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Follow the Guidelines regarding opinions and criticisms.
Rockn-Roll (talk) 19:44, 5 October 2019 (UTC) Follow the guidelines and avoid opinions and criticisms...Wikipedia is here to provide information not discussion. Discussions, opinions, and criticisms of a game can be made on the publisher's and developer's websites as well as many other venues.

Semi-protected edit request on 11 December 2019
Hey, was just thinking of updating the competitive section and adding a little bit too it. Thanks. Technicalcynical (talk) 15:30, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
 * , you can request edits on this talk page on the form "please change X to Y", at least until you become an autoconfirmed user. – Thjarkur (talk) 16:40, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 March 2020
Under "Development" and "Final Design", the first sentence in the third paragraph is repetitive. The inspiration of the artstyle was already mentioned in the first sentence of the first paragraph with the same source. The placement of this fact in the third paragraph is also irrelevant to the sentences that follow, and is borderline a non sequitur. AlexTheBestCat (talk) 14:49, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
 * , ✅. Regards, IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 15:36, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 May 2020
The part on this wiki calling it a first person shooter is wrong. It is the first war themed hat simulator. http://www.teamfortress.com/history.php here is the evidence. MrEmployeeYT (talk) 00:26, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Clearly not serious. -- ferret (talk) 00:36, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 July 2020
2A00:23C6:1A81:B501:5B3:EBF1:8F67:B1F3 (talk) 15:41, 7 July 2020 (UTC) why no edit
 * This article is protected because there has been repeated vandalism on the article by many different users for a long period of time. If you would like to request that an edit be made, please feel free to make it here on the talk page in the form "Change X to Y", citing reliable published sources, and another editor will assist. Alternately, you can create a Wikipedia account and you will be able to edit this article yourself once your account is at least four days old and has made at least 10 constructive edits to other Wikipedia articles first. &#8209;&#8209; El Hef  ( Meep? ) 15:49, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

The Bot Crisis
I feel like the 2019-2020 bot crisis in TF2 should be mentioned somewhere in this article, likely under Post-release. As nearly two years have gone by it's been the most defining problem for TF2's recent development and community lately, so it has major significance, and also major notability, as it has several articles about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nekomancerjade (talk • contribs) 00:46, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
 * If you'd like to provide some links to the several articles about it, from reliable sources like those listed at WP:VG/S, please do so. -- ferret (talk) 00:50, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Here are three! [] []  []  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nekomancerjade (talk • contribs) 01:10, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 January 2021
Under Core game modes section, change "The cart will increase as more BLU players attempt to push it." to "The cart's speed will increase as more BLU players attempt to push it." Widgethocker (talk) 01:41, 13 January 2021 (UTC)


 * ✅ Ionmars10 (talk) 02:20, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:23, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Team Fortress 2 for Xbox 360 Playtesting (cp well) (2279211019).jpg

I wanted to check in on this. The image described above has been deleted,, but I'd still like to restore a fair-use compliant copy of the deleted image. I have a copy of the image saved, but I'm not sure how to make the case that it's fair use, even after resizing. The original file was licensed freely from Flickr; it was deleted because it focused on a non-free screen image. How do I explain that when uploading a replacement? I don't mind going to the trouble of doing this, I just don't want to do it if the replacement will be deemed unnecessary or otherwise noncompliant and also get deleted. Tisnec (talk) 01:32, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Bot problem
The article mentions April as a moment when bots began to spike, but febuary (I wish I could spell) is where the bots started to become an actual problem, I think we should add something about that

Not to mention there was actually another bot invasion back in 2018, perhaps we should talk about it some way, it could be seen as a precursor to the modern bot crisis, as the Cathook bots do use the same open source program the current bots use

Can you please sign your talk pages? 22wrench (talk) 06:56, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Meet the team?
May I suggest that we add summaries of every "meet the team" video to the marketing section (a sentence or two is all we need), for example Scout:

Scout's meet the team video involves a video of him running through enemy territory, seemingly trying to collect an objective, before he walks into the video explains himself to the camera. The video then shows him fighting the Heavy Weapons Guy, before defeating him and eating his sandwich. Crystalpalace6810 (talk) 16:40, 23 May 2022 (UTC)


 * No, we really don't need to dedicate so much text to promotional videos. -- ferret (talk) 18:18, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Such information is really only interesting to one particular audience (i.e. those who play the game). Wikipedia aims for as wide an audience as possible. See Fancruft for more. ArcticSeeress (talk) 11:11, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * That being said, I have provided an external link to view the playlist on YouTube. ArcticSeeress (talk) 11:21, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Undue Weight
WP:UNDUEWEIGHT has absolutely nothing to do with any of this. Player character and non-player character bios under "gameplay", core trading mechanics as an aspect of economy rather than the other way around, "marketing" overwhelmingly focusing on tie-ins, many of which are entirely stand-alone or otherwise don't have very much to do with the actual advertising, and "development"->"post-release" not actually covering development after release are all inadmissible formatting issues. Year of release and setting info are both core aspects of a work of fiction, the second-to-lead paragraph rework helps better summarize the development in a more organized and comprehensive manner (engine first, artistic stylings second) that also flows better into the third paragraph. Other than that its just a bunch of minor readability improvements. Please review your edits better and make sure you are properly linking to the correct [WP:] before submitting.Orchastrattor (talk) 03:22, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Relevancy of bot crisis and #SaveTF2
Could the text about #SaveTF2 and the bot crisis be moved to a new section (or a more relevant one)? It doesn't seem that relevant to "what Team Fortress 2 is". Including an official update that overhauled how players interact with the game makes sense for an explanation of how the game is played. Randomly throwing on that there has been malicious third parties that sometimes appear in matches to hinder players, does not. It feels tacked-on by a frustrated fan or said malicious third-parties to gain notoriety, rather than an official documentation of events relevant to the game.

Plus, if it was moved to a new section, details about the #SaveTF2 movement could be elaborated on as it was reported on by multiple sources and has a fair amount of history to it. And if needed, other topics such as the Crate Depression, or TF2's pioneering of the extremely controversial lootbox system, or the poor MMR of the official Competitive Mode, or the constant server DDoSing... could also be included, where believed to be relevant. AHShadow05 (talk) 15:43, 11 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Also, bots didn't start showing up in 2020. It was a problem 2.3ish years before then.
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz4yS1YDnx4
 * Heck, in 2013 bots were still a thing in the form of mimicking the actions of one human player across several accounts. It dates back WAAAY earlier.
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtNrhccUJbo AHShadow05 (talk) 15:50, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Do we really need to note the exact hashtag in the lead? ~ <b style="color: #660000;">Dissident93</b> (<b style="color: #D18719;">talk</b>) 06:54, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Renaming "2019 Crate bug" to "Crate Depression of 2019"
I suggest that the title of 2019 Crate bug should be changed to Crate Depression of 2019", as the game's developers called it Crate Depression in their Update on The Crate Depression of 2019. Luketeam5 (talk) 13:40, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Golden Frying pan
There should be some mini-section about this. Also, more info for how people meme about the bot crisis. This item literally can cost you more than 1000$. Teuf0rt (talk) 17:45, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * If there are reliable sources about this, sure. Wikis are not reliable, for that matter. IceWelder  &#91; &#9993; &#93; 17:53, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * There is already an official wiki for Team Fortress 2. 22wrench (talk) 06:55, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
 * This doesn't need a section. Maybe a section about the trading economy, and a sentence about the pan. But a whole section? No.Skynnyrr (talk) 05:18, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Public Writing C1
— Assignment last updated by NicoMun (talk) 14:23, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Outdated competitive league status for ESEA
ESEA dropped TF2 long ago. The new major league is RGL for 6v6 and UGC for highlander 173.89.220.248 (talk) 19:14, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 December 2022
When listing off the classes, each with their voice actor next to their name, Gary Schwartz's name is labelled as "Gary Schwartz" when it's listed next to Demoman and as "Schwartz" when it's listed a second time as he voices Heavy, however Dennis Bateman's name is labelled as "Dennis Bateman" when it's listed next to Pyro and then labelled as "Dennis Bateman" again when it's listed next to Spy, which is an inconsistency with Schwartz's name when it's repeated. I suggest either listing Schwartz's name listed next to Heavy as "Gary Schwartz" or listing Bateman's name listed next to Spy as "Bateman" in order to have consistency between the two occurences when a voice actor is repeated amongst the classes. Dingerfish (talk) 08:55, 8 December 2022 (UTC)


 * ✅ I've changed it to Gary Schwartz ARandomName123 (talk) 16:17, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 January 2023
Requesting to change the header for the "2019 Crate Bug" to "Crate Depression of 2019" as within the official website the event is referred to as the Crate Depression of 2019. FusionSub (talk) 10:27, 31 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: the usage of "Crate Depression" is already described, and the current heading gives a clearer idea of what the section is about in the table of contents. small jars 18:59, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2023
More information should be in the last sentence of the "Bot accounts and #inveTF2" subchapter. Valve quietly edited their blog post from "an update-sized update" to "a holiday-sized update". This should be added to the article to provide more information.

Here is my source: https://www.thegamer.com/team-fortress-2-update-quietly-changed-holiday-sized-community-content/

Thanks. AugustusKhan (talk) 22:37, 17 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the grammar error, I meant "#SaveTF2". AugustusKhan (talk) 22:38, 17 February 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ ? it appears your suggested change has been implemented by another user, if this is not true please clarify and reopen request. GiovanniSidwell (talk) 17:29, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

A Possible Mini Article (or even just a section) on Expiration Date
Hi there, I am curious if more could be stated about Expiration Date considering its length and importance to the community. I find that it affects the consistency of the article to state more about the Meet the Team episodes than the short film. Thanks! Drdr150 (talk) 16:36, 14 February 2023 (UTC)


 * I think the reason that there is more documentation about the meet the team videos is because there are simply more of them. FusionSub (talk) 10:35, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I regret this request. I do agree with your claim that there are more sentences about Meet the Team because there are more of them. Drdr150 (talk) 14:49, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Infobox PS3 servers discontinued
@Masem, in the description of this edit you say that discontinuation dates are not included in infoboxes “period”. Where is this written? Asperthrow (talk) 23:43, 7 June 2023 (UTC)


 * The talk pages of Infobox video games will show that a "discontinued" date field or a "status" field for indicating products no longer available have been continuously declined. Two reverts from experienced project members should have been enough for you not to insert this a third time. -- ferret (talk) 22:26, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Not everyone is interested enough to click on usernames. Why does this mean no information can be added to the template in any page it is used? Asperthrow (talk) 07:34, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Because the WP:VG project consensus is not to do so. You've been contested by three editors now, explaining that this is atypical and not the way the infobox is used. -- ferret (talk) 11:05, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 August 2023
the summer update was in july 12 not july 13 as written in the wikipedia page currently, so please change it to correctly say july 12 as the date the summer update was releasedRywrhdfuwy34jhewryr (talk) 17:49, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Next time, please provide a reliable source to support your change ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 19:43, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 January 2024
Change: On February 9, 2023, a blog post was mad on the official Team Fortress 2 website, saying that a new "update-sized" update was coming to the game. To: On February 9, 2023, a blog post was made on the official Team Fortress 2 website, saying that a new "update-sized" update was coming to the game. Reason: Missing 'e' on the word made. Munitions (talk) 03:08, 10 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Akamaikai (talk) 03:19, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Akamaikai (talk) 03:19, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

An update to the bot section is required
As of January 12, 2024, the bot problem has had a massive resurgence, thus the issue was only effectively ended for a period (through most of 2022 and into 2023). The resurgence kicked back up in December, when player count for the game doubled overnight, and has been hampering game play yet again. Having played the game casually for over a decade at this point, this is by far the worst bot wave the game has had. You can see the player numbers here: https://steamcharts.com/app/440 AnInterestingName (talk) 14:46, 12 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Steamcharts is not a reliable source, and player count would be inferring. We need reliable secondary coverage about the issue to change anything. -- ferret (talk) 14:52, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * https://steamdb.info/app/440/charts/#6y
 * SteamDB assists in correlating this. Yes, going off player count is weird, however at the same time it’s all we have that isn’t trying to track down and count down every bot. Besides, this game never sees such a massive leap in player count. 138.47.165.176 (talk) 17:43, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I almost mentioned Steamdb before, but decided not to... Steamdb is also viewed as unreliable for Wikipedia use. All either shows, regardless, is a spike in users. It doesn't say "These are bots", or "The bot problem is back", or anything. We can't use this figure for anything here. -- ferret (talk) 18:44, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Medic origin error
I thought medic was from rottenburg, not stuttgart? JVR2023 (talk) 16:44, 18 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Rottenburg is a Man Vs Machine location. Medic is stated in the official wiki to be from Stuttgart, Germany. GouDoug (talk) 04:53, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The Medic's info page says its Stuttgart (https://www.teamfortress.com/classes.php?class=medic). The two cities update page says its Rottenburg (https://www.teamfortress.com/twocities/rottenburg/). This could be a continuity error or maybe Medic was born in one city and grew up in the other? 2601:646:9D82:3F50:A017:9282:8009:2C89 (talk) 20:57, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 April 2024
Add the fact that buds are no longer unanimous with trading, rarely being used today. Keys are now the most defined and used currency. 99.124.226.254 (talk) 03:38, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  (talk | contribs) 03:45, 8 April 2024 (UTC)