Talk:Tears/Archive 1

spelling
I changed the spelling from "lachrymation" to "lacrimation" because this is by far the more common spelling. I see it was changed once before, but "lacrimation" is the spelling used by the medical community in the US.
 * Makes sense to me. Femto 15:17, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The Latin for "a tear" is correctly lacrima. The form lachryma is a spurious Greekifying which has been around a long time. Anthony Appleyard 06:18, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Purpose of crying
Are there any viable theories or commonly agreed upon purposes for the act of crying available to anyone? 70.88.218.193 15:05, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

This is a substandard article
Searches for "crying", "sobbing", "weeping" etc. all redirect here, but this article covers the topic of emotional crying in only the most brief, cursory and superficial manner, and such information as exists is limited almost entirely to matters of physiology. Very, very poor indeed. I respectfully submit that redirecting those words to this article is inappropriate if we are not willing to cover the topic properly within.

I second that70.227.43.192 05:59, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

More physiology
Just a comment arising from looking this up: I find it hard to believe that a "thin" tear layer interacts with contact lenses in the way the wording would seem to imply; "dry" eyes may lead to contact lenses adhering to the surface of the eye reducing the amount of oxygen reaching between the lens and the cornea via oxygenated fluid from the exposed parts of the eye, but the claim that "the amount of oxygen need is higher" (sic - should that have been "the amount of oxygen needed"?) would require support. Perhaps it should also say that contact lenses can reduce the amount of oxygen reaching the cornea - but the reduction will be strongly dependent on the material and thickness of the lens... (which might be drifting a little OT). The purpose of the "special eyedrops" should be made clear... Hopefully someone better qualified could sort this out. Julian I Do Stuff 15:06, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Hay fever
This article lists several causes of tears, but I didn't see any mention of watering eyes, as in a classic sign of an IgE-based allergic reaction (or, in plain English, tears running down your face during hay fever season because you left the window open when the neighbor mowed the grass). Does anyone know if these are still "technically" tears? WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:50, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Altering Caption of "Weeping Frenchman" Picture
The caption says "A Frenchman weeps as German soldiers march into the French capital, Paris, on June 14, 1940, after the Allied armies had been driven back across France", however: 1) It doesn't make sense as it's extremely doubtful there was a civilian crowd to greet German soldiers in Paris. 2) The same picture on Commons tells a different and more believable story, supported by a movie (very end) showing the same scene in context.

"French people staring and waving at the French Army remaining troops leaving metropolitan France at Toulon harbour, 1940, to reach the French colonies in Africa where will be organized as Free French Forces fighting on the Allied side, while France is taken over by the Nazis and the Petain regime collaborating with them. Screenhot taken from the 1943 United States Army propaganda film Divide and Conquer (Why We Fight #3) directed by Frank Capra and partially based on, news archives, animations, restaged scenes and captured propaganda material from both sides. As a propaganda film from "unknown" source, it is unsure if the scene was really shot on location or if it was later restaged in studios."

In light of this, I'm editing the text of the picture accordingly and captions where used. 82.231.41.7 (talk) 13:59, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Crying
Shouldn't "Crying" have its own separate article? There's more to crying than just the production of tears, but currently crying is just a disambiguation leading to Tears and Sadness, among other things. -- BlastOButter42 See  Hear  Speak  00:47, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree.--71.103.96.181 (talk) 03:51, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Good idea! :) 75.128.197.65 (talk) 09:18, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Me too agrees 124.30.235.62 (talk) 15:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Pic
Why's there no picture of somebody crying and producing tears? That would be a very useful illustration than the drab diagram we have now. 124.30.235.62 (talk) 15:29, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Not a bad idea, done. WLU (talk) 15:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Big words and readbility
I have no idea what the following is saying:


 * "The limbic system is involved in production of basic emotional drives, such as anger, fear, etc. The limbic system also has a degree of control over the autonomic system. This is more specifically the hypothalamus. It is the parasympathetic system that controls the lacrimal glands. Acetylcholine is the neurotransmitter specific to both the nicotinic and muscarinic receptors. It is when the receptors are activated that the lacrimal gland is stimulated to produce tears."

Keeping in mind that this is an encyclopedia for lay people, is there any way the above can be re-written so that mere mortals can understand it?--Margareta 22:26, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Um, "Various nerves and glands can be involved in triggering tears"? I readily agree that it's not the most polished bit of writing, but I think the average reader's primary problem is the the reader's unfamiliarity with the anatomy, not the infelicitous phrasing.  I don't really see a way to provide these details without making some readers' eyes glaze over.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:45, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Why don't you read the Simple English version?

DarkestMoonlight (talk) 19:56, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Crying tone
Did you ever wonder why you hear coughs or breaks when someone cries. For example, waahhhhhhhhhh ahhaaaaah ahhaaaahhhh, etc. BuickCenturyDriver 11:06, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe because people run out of breath when wailing. Or, you know, making any noise for more than a few seconds. VolatileChemical (talk) 04:57, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Sniffling
After people crying (especially children) what causes the uncontrollable sniffling? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.163.223.183 (talk) 04:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC).

Yeah that's a really good question and I'd love to see it answered. 70.108.37.10 01:35, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I am pretty sure that is caused by tears running down the inside of your nose, rather than out of your eyes and down your cheeks. As I understand it, ear/nose/throat is also connected to the tear ducts, and when you cry you get some tears inside your nose. That's what causes sniffling/runny nose. Mlbish (talk) 19:01, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If you look at the picture you will see the superior and inferior punctal ducts. You can usually see both if you look carefully at your eyelid margins in a mirror. They are small holes on the top and bottom eyelids on the side closest to the nose. Your tears train into these holes and into the nose which can cause the nose to run. A certain amount of normal tears also drain into these holes when even when you're not crying. Rfwoolf (talk) 11:59, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Human Response to Infant Crying Sounds
There's a particular statement in this article that intrigues me:

"The human brain is programmed to consider the crying of a child irritating, and thus make the person desire to aid the baby to stop the crying."

Presently, this claim is unverified, but I am wondering if anybody knows anything about this. Perhaps a source that one could use as a starting place? Just throwing that out there.

--Jakesinnott (talk) 00:20, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

what age do babies have tears
how old are babies when they start showing their tears/ducts open? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.183.68.75 (talk) 18:45, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

"in healthy mammalian ???
In tears section it is said "in healthy mammalian eynknkes etc". I think the last word here isn't proofread, which should be fixed by the one who wrote it. BentzyCo (talk) 22:09, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Digram text need correcting?
Unless item B really is as below:

B) stupid trash talk punctum —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.212.193.92 (talk) 06:04, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Yawning on purpose
I yawn on purpose to keep my eyes moist. It's usefull when I'm in dry/hot air, even moreso now that I wear contacs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.34.179.48 (talk) 00:34, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Well... so what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.7.7.138 (talk) 14:40, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Not a good citation
One the main sections of the kinds of tears, and the hormone content therein is only cited by "http://www.scienceiq.com/Facts/ScienceOfTears.cfm". Which is only cited by a physicist/creator of the website. I am not doubting the science. But someone should find a better citation. Perhaps one under the article about crying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.230.131.86 (talk) 12:45, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

In other species
If anyone has any information about tears in the animal kingdom, it'd be good to see here. Like if only people have them, or only primates, or only mammals, or something to that effect. Mammals are mentioned a few times in reference to other aspects, but there ought to be at least a sentence or two specifically about what types of animals experience tears. --Mbarbier 20:49, 6 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Five years on, this article is still too focused on humans. 66.108.223.179 (talk) 00:33, 10 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

no move. --  tariq abjotu  01:44, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Proposed move
tears to tear. We're supposed to have articles at the singular forms, not plurals. Then move the current tear to tear (disambiguation). Voortle 02:13, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with  ~


 * In this particular case, I think the current Tears may be the more appropriate name because it is more of a mass noun in the vein of water referring to some volume of liquid, not individual particles, or people being something different than one person. A single tear is found in mythology or other stories as some magical indication perhaps, but the eye liquid is always found in mass or as several tears, and that is what is being referred. Skin might be a similar, whereas we have one heart. It just happens in this case that the word "tears" has the usual plural s, and doesn't look like other mass nouns. —Centrx→talk &bull; 01:34, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Centrx. Lacrimal fluid isn't countable singular. The collective noun is the same as the plural, and is fine in this case. Femto 14:26, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose - would cause unnecessary confusion with the verb to tear. Using the collective noun indicates the context better. Jooler 15:03, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

societal aspects???
I am proposing that this section heading be changed from "societal aspects" to something that is more reader friendly. I wanted to change it to "cultural", but I do not know how to do that with out messing up other aspects of the article. I would appreciate it if someone more knowledgeable would update this name.

sorry, I teach high school science and send my students to wikipedia for everything. I just saw this as something that could be improved to make the page more friendly to readers.

NigelEd (talk) 21:56, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

potential resources
Tears And Other Traits That Make Us Human; What Color Is Your Placebo Parachute "In this episode, journalist Chip Walter, author of Thumbs, Toes and Tears, takes us on a tour of the physical traits that are unique to humans, with special attention to crying, the subject of his article in the current issue of Scientific American Mind. The University of Cambridge's Gordon Smith discusses the alarming lack of any randomized, controlled trials to determine the efficacy of parachutes.  Plus we'll test your knowledge about some recent science in the news. Websites mentioned on this episode include www.sciammind.com; www.chipwalter.com; www.bmj.com." 99.181.147.68 (talk) 05:27, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

just have something to add to your comment
some people tear when they laugh real hard as well as crying and allergies and i agree crying should have its own page cause you can tear without crying when in pain like when you pull out a hair or bite your tongue

i dont know how to edit pages =\ 84.228.250.97 (talk) 18:56, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

What is the Composition of Tears?
Are tears isotonic? What is the exact composition of tears? Not gonna find it in this article, that's for sure. What I found instead is the advice that boys should cry more! :)

Guess I'll have to google that info... 67.206.185.94 (talk) 03:09, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Weasel words, NPOV, general tone and layout.
This article is problematic for several reasons, aside from those already mentioned. The article seems rife with stereotypes and seems to hold up some anecdotal misogynistic attitudes concerning expression of emotion. The sources for the information are not reliable...I mean really, Reader's Digest as a source for info in a science related article ? We can do better. The article also has a very poorly formatted table which is hard to read, given the way the text is setup within it.

I'm flagging this article for the Copy Editor's guild to review. It needs:


 * 1) Better citations
 * 2) Cleanup on tone and neutrality
 * 3) Cleanup on visual layout (i.e. tables)
 * 4) More accurate representation of medical data
 * 5) Removal of weasel wording, particulary given the medical & scientific data that is being shared.

Also, just from observation, mammals other than humans do produce tears from their eyes, so the mention of this being an anthropocentric article does have some truth. I mean accuracy, thanks. Curdigirl (talk) 22:49, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, Curdigirl (talk) 22:47, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

adjectives: Tear-shaped, tear-like translations (important in arts [Korean mother-of-pearl lacquerware, etc] and plectrums)

 * Greek: δρακρύσχημος, δακρυοειδής — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:4121:5400:9498:BD61:246C:7A00 (talk) 17:19, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

"Tears" not "Tearing"
This page seems to still contains a lot of information from before crying existed. This could be why the lead section is describing the action of "tearing" rather than the substance "tears". In light of this, I believe it would be useful to move any unduplicated information about crying into its respective article, then refactor "tears" to focus on the substance primarily with later sections describing their composition, secretion by various animals, the inciting conditions, as well as, their biological, sociological, and medicinal significance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spirarel (talk • contribs) 05:00, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Layers
Tears are made up of three layers: lipid, aqueous, and mucous. Add mention of which is on top (touching the atmosphere), and which is on bottom (touching the eye.) Jidanni (talk) 01:17, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Question
Can you cry underwater? Can it be proved scientifically if so?

Another question: if one were to transfer tears from their own eye into that of someone else via an eyedropper or similar tool, what would happen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1234gracev (talk • contribs) 01:38, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Just really bad
Bad article. Tear does NOT originate in the lacrimal gland! In humans, the aqueous portion (i.e. lacrimal fluid) originates there. The oil layer originates in the meibomian glands which are in the eyelids. The mucus layer is arguably part of the tear layer, but I do not know (I suspect not) if mucous is produced, flows, and is shed/lost in a fixed ratio relative to the lacrimal fluid. While it's not unusual for an article which *should* talk about a material common to all (>) land vertebrates (not sure about invertebrates and aquatic animals) instead mostly discusses what is known about humans. But I bet a lot of material about non-human eye films is available. The amount of material still(!) (as of May 20, 2022) present discussing crying is in dire need of removal. The material here about how tear composition changes as hormones are released into the circulatory system needs some perspective added: is the change significant? If so why? etc. Oh, another question I have: is tear fluid really clear? Many materials which are "clear" are so because they are thin (Beers' Law) rather than because they don't absorb much light (per centimeter) in the visible spectrum. How thick are the 3 layers of tear? While I'd be surprised if any of them had strong absorption in the visible, would say 1 cm of the lipid or the mucous material look "clear"? IDK but someone should.207.155.85.22 (talk) 16:47, 20 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Most medical definitions of tears only mention the lacrimal glands, so this may be the accepted definition. Possibly because tears produced in a Dry Eye patient may not have a lipid layer, but are still considered tears. If you want to edit the article to make it more scientifically accurate and less anthropomorphic, please do. This article needs a lot of work and more peer-reviewed citations. The void century (talk) 00:36, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Helpful
This whole article about Human Tears and all the discussion were pretty helpful and benefitial information to human world. We hope that you continue the good work and keep writing and providing more on such useful scientific subjects. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.2.220.212  (talk) 14:37, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Salinity
I am looking for the salinity of tears. This information would be helpful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.232.110.82  (talk) 19:27, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Question on association with emotion
The article doesn't explain why strong emotions, e.g. sadness, happiness, should trigger crying. It seems that people from all cultures feel the urge to cry, but its not at all obvious why an emotion like sadness etc. should cause people's eyes to water rather than, say, causing the people to sweat or to shiver. Are there any readers out there who could at least offer the basic knowledge about this? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.125.60.123  (talk) 11:22, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I am trying to find out the same thing if anyone could tell me i would be grateful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.108.6.236  (talk) 03:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

so....
How many grams of nacl is there in 1000ml tears? How can this article FAIL to address this vital question? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.90.79.178  (talk) 14:49, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Less anthropocentric, better structure
Hi all, I made some improvements to reduce the anthropocentric bias, removed some unsupported/unaccepted data, and restructured the article to be more cohesive. The article still needs greater coverage of non-human physiology, and up to date citations from peer-reviewed journals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The void century  (talk • contribs) 05:26, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

physiology
I removed the claim that the lacrimal glands constrict. I could find no support for this. All the sources I consulted indicate that tears are the result of increased secretion, not a muscular constriction Osmodiar 15:56, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Osmodiar  (talk • contribs) 15:56, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The shedding of tears evolved because tears provided fluid, electrolytes and protein to an offspring deprived of its feeder by predation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Milache (talk • contribs) 16:31, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * We need a reliable source for that if it's added to the article. It also doesn't make much sense. Offspring don't feed off of tears. Sundayclose (talk) 14:54, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Crying
When you cry, if your tear falls first from your left eye, this is a sign that they are angry tears. If it falls first from the right, this is a sign of happy tears. 185.68.107.2 (talk) 12:23, 9 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Wow that's amazing i didn't know 41.114.246.131 (talk) 16:07, 20 March 2024 (UTC)