Talk:Tears of the Sun

Removal of External Link
I've removed the External Link to http://lewcid.googlepages.com/tots.html, for a couple of reasons. Firstly the "case study" is opinion pretty poorly dressed up as an academic case study. There is no attributable author to the case study ("The University of Adelaide" doesn't count), and linking to essentially an anti-Hollywood thinly argued rant doesn't add any encyclopedic value to this wikipedia article whatsoever. Xlh 14:17, 9 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm glad you removed it. The author clearly had an agenda he/she was pushing and molded every coincidence to support his/her agenda.Niteshift36 (talk) 00:34, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

External Link and necessity of criticism
This film is pretty clearly culturally offensive and promotes ridiculous, simplistic stereotypes, and the "case study" is a pretty good (though incomplete) guide as to why and how this is. Talk of "coincidences" is naïve nonsense, and none of the reasons stated for removal of the link are valid, aside from the lack of decent attribution. For this reason alone I have not replaced the link. Tears of the Sun being set against a background of a modern African ethnic conflict, it has political implications. It opens with real newsreel footage, and ends with the famous Edmund Burke 'for evil to triumph...' quote. For this reason, I think that criticisms of the politics displayed in the movie is valid for inclusion. Reviewers have also pointed out that the plot has significant holes in it. I will try to put a decent criticism section together.

Finally, I have removed the Military History tag. ####

Centrepull (talk) 23:09, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Notable, professional discussion might be reaonable. However, F5 magazine, a weekly magazine limited to the Wichita area, is hardly notable. And what is "clearly culturally offensive" to you is a matter of opinion, chiefly yours. Niteshift36 (talk) 00:48, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The point I'm making is that the movie is notable for its cultural offensiveness. I didn't add my own opinion to the article, I added that of Jake Eukel, a serious, well-published film reviewer in the US. Doubtless Nigerian film reviewers would be rather harsher. The reviewer quoted is at least as valid as that of an unnamed reviewer from Time Out London. Centrepull (talk) 22:37, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Jake Eukel is a "serious, well-published film reviewer in the US"? Really? I googled him and found absolutely zero entries of his name. I'm not convinced anyone outside of 50 readers in Wichita could actually name him. Feel free to remove the non-notable review from Time Out London. Niteshift36 (talk) 02:03, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Fiction?
Im not sure about the comment ficitonal, that may have to be reviewed. Some more research might help. 121.218.195.136 02:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The first paragraph of the Plot section is confusing. It's unclear which parts are referring to the factual story that the film is a fictionalisation of.  If there is a factual incident that ths film is based on this should be clearly referenced/described and separated from the description of the fictionalised screenplay.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.68.71.214 (talk) 21:25, 16 June 2012 (UTC)


 * The plot is loosely based on a US led mission that comprised members of the JTF2 Hschantang (talk) 01:21, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Is there a source for that? Please add it into the article if there is. Illegitimate Barrister (talk) 12:22, 25 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I think one of the commandos wrote a book about his time in JTF2, can't remember the book or his name though. He said it was a Canadian led JTF2 secret operation, the only difference (other than the added stuff for viewing pleasure) was the Canadian JTF2 commandos were changed to US Navy Seals as there was still a tight lip on what JTF2 was doing as well as it would play better in the US and it occurred in Columbia (S.A. not Africa). An ex-member of the JTF2 commando unit wrote the original story (the man who also wrote the book) and suggested it when he met the production team of Executive Decision (1996) on a set in Nevada. Now this is where it gets tricky ... either the government tried to discredit the book for many reasons including black ops assassinations (doesn't fly well in Canada) or the author made the whole thing up. Other commandos have come out in recent years giving credit to the book but I believe it is still up for debate if it was 100% true or not. The point is that the movie was based on the possible real life story from the book so it may or may not be a true story but the original story is about that previously mentioned Cdn JTF2 op in Columbia. The book mentioned above "We Were Invincible: Testimony of an Ex-Commando" by Denis Morisset (Author) & Claude Coulombe (Author) (Morisset is the main author, the one who traveled to Nevada) however this is also speculation that some of the book was changed to blame US and Brit, etc. for certain things that Canadians would deem unacceptable (just as everyone seems to do i.e. Brits pose as Americans US pose as Canadians and Canadians pose as both lol) as Morisset was actually arrested the day before his book came out due to it threatening national security and threatening ongoing relations/operations/commando security (Ref: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ex-commando-arrested-day-before-jtf2-tell-all-hits-bookstores-1.735690); however the book still came out. I don't believe there are any facts to back up it was changed but is more of a common theory. This would make sense as the other commandos that came out to support Morisset's work said not all of it was true but the overall majority of it was. This is where some things like Canadian led vs US led operation conflicts come from as I believe the earlier mention is correct, the book says it was a US led (NATO or NORAD ... some people think NORAD is more than an anti-missile command and more of a overall joint US-Cdn alliance) operation conducted by JTF2 commandos but the other commandos say it was Canadian led. I personally don't think we will get a real answer about any of it just like most black ops/spec ops missions. I think the tv show "The Unit" had an episode also based on this story (loosely) where Sgt Maj Jonas Blane rescues some Christian aid workers trying to build a church in S.A. somewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deserted lamp (talk • contribs) 06:37, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
 * No reliable sources out there have linked the Canadian rescue to the production of this movie. The movie is a fiction, even though I appreciate the director's military agenda. Please see the new verifiable citation I put in. Thanks. Supermann (talk) 05:21, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The beginning factoid on the bluray says, "while the film is a fictional drama. It is inspired by the civil wars and ethnic clashes that have afflicted much of Africa over the past thirty years. Tears of the Sun specifically refers to the tragic struggles of emerging African democracies such as Nigeria. Since independence from British colonial rule in 1960, Nigeria has survived 8 military coups or coup attempts. The Igbo-led coup and Hausa-Fulani counter-coup of 1966 reflects the crisis depicted in the film. In response to massacres of their people, Southern Igbos formed the secessionist state of Biafra in 1967. The country embarked on a 3 year civil war that left over 1 million dead. Nigeria has been relatively stable since 1970, although frequently ruled by corrupt and repressive military leaders throughout its contemporary history." Supermann (talk) 19:06, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Subtitle
The lead makes the unsourced claim that the title Tears of the Sun was originally going to be the subtitle for Die Hard 4 and Willis claimed the title for this movie. DH4 didn't come out till 3 years later, and this doesn't sound like a very Die Hard-ish title. If no one can provide a source for this I recommend it be removed as possible bogus information (I've placed a fact tag accordingly). 68.146.81.123 (talk) 14:54, 19 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree, having found nothing in that citation "Doug Pratt's DVD: Movies, Television, Music, Art, Adult, and More!". Maybe Google is stingy with its access to the book. Supermann (talk) 05:07, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Type of a missile
What type of missiles the F/A-18s fired ? AGM-65 Mavericks ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.8.246.12 (talk) 21:26, 8 March 2010 (UTC)


 * No idea, even though I had been accused of pushing a military agenda before. Supermann (talk) 05:44, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The factoid on the bluray didn't explain what the missiles were. But AGM-158 JASSM could be another possibility since it's air to ground too. Supermann (talk) 18:58, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Pronunciation Guide
"Ee-bow" is still ambiguous as a pronunciation of Ibo. However, I put this on the talk page in case that is the correct linguistic way to phrase it. I would suggest something like ee-boe or just ee-bo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.156.144.205 (talk) 06:25, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Trivia Appropriateness/Veracity
The "Trivia" section of this article seems hardly encyclopedic, and isn't cited in any way. It claims that Tom Skerritt's character inspired Lt. General Shepherd in the video game Modern Warfare II, which seems dubious to me, as does the section's claim that the protagonist of that series (Soap MacTavish) was inspired by Johnny Messner's character. The mohawk is hardly a unique hairstyle, and so this seems like a coincidental resemblance. I would recommend the removal of this section and incorporation of the information into a larger "Impact" or "Influence" section if its contents can be cited. Hkobb7 (talk) 04:00, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Answer: I've added the reference for the Modern Warfare inspiration. Please check if it is convincing enough. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sulik (talk • contribs) 16:01, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I removed the section. That source is hardly going to pass RS and even if it did, it's trivial. Trivia sections don't belong. I love movie trivia, but not on Wikipedia. Hkobb7 is correct, anything relevant (and well sourced) belongs in the production section. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:05, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Rates and designators
The cast section has USN rates and designators, but is unsourced. Is there a source for this? Illegitimate Barrister (talk) 12:23, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Define RTO in Cast section
What exactly is an RTO? It leads to a disambiguation page. 198.2.5.101 (talk) 16:44, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
 * It's gone now, but it stands for radiotelephone operator. WP Ludicer (talk) 18:12, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

On Set Advisers
Someone keeps making edits about the on-set advisers who supervised certain actors for their roles in this movie. The problem is that these edits are made in the cast section (instead of production), and do not include any supporting citations or evidence. Further, only the name is added, with no explanation of why the edit was made or why it was relevant. Whoever SFC (or D.) Stanley may be, this person does not appear in any online documentation of the movie, and should not be added as an adviser.Yojimbo1941 (talk) 17:16, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Racism and Marginalization: Use of racial designation
The use of a Racial Designator to precede the name of the film’s director marginalized the director. Who cares what race he is? A great director is a great director, period. Additionally, if a racial designation is used for one person mentioned then the racial designations of all mentioned persons must be included or the action is racist and marginalizes the affected party. 148.170.208.101 (talk) 01:07, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't know about all the allegations of racism or marginalization, but I agree that it doesn't seem like it belongs. The inclusion could be for less nefarious reasons, like wanting to create a category of films directed by African Americans etc. Let's assume the best. That said, I removed it and if restored, hopefully there will be some reason given. Niteshift36 (talk) 13:45, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Soundtrack?
Can anyone please edit soundtrack

Soundtrack? Kitsotshipa23 (talk) 20:01, 9 February 2022 (UTC)