Talk:Technocracy Study Course

Untitled
I have recreated this page because there are multiple articles that refer to the book... and also this presentation is sourced with neutral outside information from a couple of key sources ... this one http://www.eoearth.org/article/Biophysical_economics and this one http://ecen.com/eee9/ecoterme.htm and also this http://telstar.ote.cmu.edu/environ/m3/s3/05account.shtml which was not in the information previously. The first two links specifically mention the notability of the ideas contained in the T.S.C. and give some historical information regarding the notable people involved.

Note: I previously voted to delete this page in an A.f.d. - I now think that the article is important because of the impact the book has made, and think it qualifies as notable very easily http://archive1.macs.ualberta.ca/FindingAids/Technocracy/Technocracy3.html .. here is another very nice link for information presentation here also that is now in the article http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2003AM/finalprogram/abstract_61689.htm

Also before, the article was not sourced as to the actual book... and that link to the book is now available as a download from the official group which is still around and is included in this version. skip sievert (talk) 17:52, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Not notable
Self-published study course with anonymous authorship which has been deleted once already, see Articles for deletion/Technocracy Study Course. Couldn't find any published reviews, see. Non-notable as it doesn't meet WP: Notability (books). Article is more about the Technical Alliance than anything else, and we already have an article on that. Johnfos (talk) 00:29, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Notable
Reliable, secondary sources,? Yes. As said I voted for the deletion the first time around though I knew it was notable. This time it is sourced extremely well. You did not read the links. Mostly authored by M. King Hubbert the book's author is so historically significant that any of his written works may be considered notable, that is pointed out here and in the article. Its in the library of Congress. There are multiple links discussing it such as this http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/2023/SWP-1353-09057784.pdf?sequence=1

''I drew up a kind of a small study course of the basics of what we were talking about, for use in these small groups that were assembling around. That was published in a small booklet without authorship. It was called "Technocracy Study Course."'' end quote. M. King Hubbert http://www.oilcrisis.com/hubbert/aip/aip_iv.htm I have asked previously that you not drive by tag things edited by myself. The organization is notable. The actual articles related all relate back to the information in this book... so it makes sense to document the book. Do a search on Wikipedia for associated articles http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2003AM/finalprogram/abstract_61689.htm... do a google search on the book itself. skip sievert (talk) 01:19, 22 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Notable - Howards Scott, M. King Hubbert and perhaps others wrote this textbook for teaching the principles of a depression-era cultish group - The technocracy movement. It is notable because it predates Hubbert (1956) "Nuclear Energy and the Fossil Fuels" by 22 years, and contains the fundamentals of peak theory.  It's also notable because it presents an alternative to modern day economics - Energy economics or Technocratic economics.  As such, it is one of the Heterodox economic theories which reject neoclassical economics.  Finally, it's notable because it captures a large body of fundamental engineering knowledge in one book.
 * The article itself needs to focus on the book itself rather than its authors or its movement. Many of the references are not according to a proper style.  Having read the book, I would like to take a stab at cleaning up this article.  But before I invest the time, let's get past the notability issue. kgrr  talk 12:01, 25 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I would agree with the above. It is notable because of the ideas originated from the group about energy economics and sustainability within a resource base, and the personalities involved from history. It may have been referred to as cultish in some media... but that may not be accurate. Many things written about the group involved are inaccurate. They considered themselves an educational research science group... but it is true that they had a colorful leader that did not allow much leeway in how the info was presented. There was a general mainstream interest at the time in the ideas... and there was an actual mass movement that sprang up regarding the ideas connected. There was a large effort by elements of the media... (Hearst Corp.) and the New York times to smear the information also... and that is interesting aspect. skip sievert (talk) 17:47, 25 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Notability requirements:
 * The book has been the subject [1] of multiple, non-trivial[2] published works whose sources are independent of the book itself,[3] with at least some of these works serving a general audience. This includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, other books, television documentaries and reviews. Some of these works should contain sufficient critical commentary to allow the article to grow past a simple plot summary. Yes - It is referred to by a handful of papers in Google Scholar
 * The book has won a major literary award. No - I could not find one
 * The book has been considered by reliable sources to have made a significant contribution to a notable motion picture, or other art form, or event or political or religious movement. Yes - Heterodox economic theories and Hubbert Peak Theory.  Both of these are significant contributions to our society whether we choose to believe it or not.
 * The book is the subject of instruction at multiple grade schools, high schools, universities or post-graduate programs in any particular country. No?  It may be.
 * The book's author is so historically significant that any of his or her written works may be considered notable. No? - in the strictest sense no author is claimed for the book. But certainly M. King Hubbert is a notable author.  You have to be asleep at the wheel to not recognize that his work is/will be historically significant.   kgrr  talk 23:10, 25 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The Technocracy movement was not successful but the notion of technocracy was ahead of its time. Technocrats have been a powerful influence on political decision-making during the last 50 years. Perhaps never more so than when Hubbert presented his testimony on energy resources to Congress in 1974. http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2003AM/finalprogram/abstract_61689.htm 'Session No. 66 M. King Hubbert at 100: The Enduring Contributions of Twentieth-Century Geology’s Renaissance Man
 * Washington State Convention and Trade Center: 602/603/604 8:00 AM-12:00 PM, Monday, November 3, 2003 Geological Society of America Abstracts with
 * Programs, Vol. 35, No. 6, September 2003, p. 195` end quoted info. I think it is safe to say that Hubbert was the main author. He said so in interviews... and also the group he co-founded also says so, to the present time and in its history. skip sievert (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Needed improvements
After the AfD war is over with, I think the article could use the following sections:

energy relating to economics, the price system and its flaws, the "solution"
 * Overview/Synopsis - describe what the book is about...


 * Chapter outline - give a brief summary of each chapter.
 * 1) MATTER
 * 2) UNITS OF MEASUREMENT
 * 3) ENERGY
 * 4) THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS
 * 5) ENGINES
 * 6) THE HUMAN ENGINE
 * 7) THE FLOW OF ENERGY ON THE EARTH
 * 8) DYNAMIC EQUILIBRIUM AMONG ENERGY-CONSUMING DEVICES
 * 9) ENERGY IN HUMAN HISTORY
 * 10) EARLY STAGES IN THE USE OF EXTRANEOUS ENERGY
 * 11) MODERN INDUSTRIAL GROWTH
 * 12) INDUSTRIAL GROWTH CURVES
 * 13) MINERAL RESOURCES
 * 14) MORE ABOUT GROWTH CURVES
 * 15) THE PRICE SYSTEM
 * 16) RULES OF THE GAME OF THE PRICE SYSTEM
 * 17) THE FLOW OF MONEY
 * 18) WHY THE PURCHASING POWER IS NOT MAINTAINED
 * APPENDIX: POPULATION GROWTH IN THE U. S. A.


 * 1) OPERATING CHARACTERISTICS UNDER THE PRICE SYSTEM
 * 2) THE NATURE OF THE HUMAN ANIMAL
 * 3) TECHNOCRACY: THE DESIGN
 * 4) INDUSTRIAL DESIGN AND OPERATING CHARACTERISTICS
 * APPENDIX


 * History
 * Background - who are the contributors and major authors?
 * Technical Alliance Project
 * Publication history - what versions are out there?
 * Foreign language editions - in what languages? English, Spanish?  French?

kgrr talk 12:03, 22 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I think that approach would be good. In each section of the chapters in the book itself, there are interesting footnote/citations that would also be good to mention. Probably stressing the connection to Man-hours and distribution published by Hubbert in 1940 would make sense also, since the Study Course formed the beginning of his work on growth curves Hubbert curve, as to the publishing of that type of material connected with him. skip sievert (talk) 17:22, 22 October 2009 (UTC)