Talk:Teddy Sinclair/Archive 1

Website
I am not sure how to update the official website, as nataliakills.com now forwards to her new band site, cruelyouthxo.com. - (talk)

Separate wiki
Anyone else wanna help create a seperate wiki for her? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.197.190.5 (talk • contribs) 22:29, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Quality scale
This article is rated C-Class and is marked as a Low-priority due to the clean-up tag and others. That's all I could say and you may also want to contribute more by adding more reliable sources. If not, check the tags which were at the top of the article paragraph. --Abcassionchan 11:23, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Natalia Kills discography
hello,

this musical artist only released a couple of albums/singles (one album and three singles), and is therefore a content forking list. I hereby suggest a merge to this article; feel free to leave comments here. Thank you for your attention. Regards.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 21:34, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Merge it.--Tainter (talk) 06:31, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

The song charted at 10 in Germany, not Ireland 75.110.149.7 (talk) 13:52, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Fixer23 (talk) 04:13, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Name
What happened to her actual birth name - Natalia Noemi Keery-Fisher? Since the whole Cappuccini came with the move to America, seems like someone's PR team's going wild. - Adaobi  YELL!!done 19:32, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from SophieMKills, 19 June 2011
Instruments: Vocals, drums, guitar, saxophone

SophieMKills (talk) 09:11, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. &mdash; Abhishek Talk to me 16:51, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Birthday
Just wanted to point out if she were born in 1986 and she made her debut at age 7, then how is it possible she made her debut in 1995?

I don't want to just edit the page, but this needs to be rectified.

96.249.34.187 (talk) 17:47, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Misspelling
Just wanted to point out that the website title on the first reference is misspelled; it should be "Vertigo Shtick." Vertigoshtick (talk) 22:54, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * . -- JHunterJ (talk) 23:49, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Name again
here she answers someone who asked if her name is Natalia Cappuccini or Natalia Keery-Fisher, and says her surname is indeed Cappuccini. Is she lying about herself then? 189.72.212.190 (talk) 23:44, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Is it impossible? The citations in the article are accurate, and also cover the transition of the name claims. -- JHunterJ (talk) 00:37, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * These two sources state her birth name is Natalia Noemi Cappuccini. Lucas RdS (talk) 05:26, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Those two sources say nothing about a birth name. She appears to have a birth name (Keery-Fisher), a stage name (Kills), and a newer real name (Cappuccini). Adopting a new real name does not change one's birth name. -- JHunterJ (talk) 17:54, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Her legal name is Cappucini and has been since just after she was born
It was changed shortly after she was born. I'm looking for a rock-solid citation and will make the change as soon as I do.KennyFromSouthPark (talk) 22:13, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * References have been added re: Natalia Cappucinni. WP:FULLNAME

'''Pseudonyms, stage names and common names For people who are best known by a pseudonym, the legal name should usually appear first in the article, followed closely by the pseudonym. Follow this practice even if the article itself is titled with the pseudonym...'''KennyFromSouthPark (talk) 20:02, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 March 2015
Lady gaga wannabe :) as occupation and a  flop

74.56.221.102 (talk) 20:39, 15 March 2015 (UTC)


 * as you have not requested a change. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. --I am  k6ka  Talk to me!   See what I have done  21:00, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 March 2015
(copy-pasted article removed Red rose64 (talk) 13:58, 20 June 2015 (UTC))

Ajnitro (talk) 21:09, 15 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. --I am  k6ka  Talk to me!   See what I have done  21:11, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 March 2015
Under the controversy section it would probably be useful to note that the X Factor being referred to is thee New Zealand version.

Ps2jak2 (talk) 21:37, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- haminoon  ( talk ) 00:21, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

X Factor tirade
Some quick triggers out there so I got caught up in a few edit conflicts. I think the article is back to its original state as I am writing this. So it appears this artist has made a bit of a name for herself in the local Kiwi newspapers for abusing a contestant on X factor. This needs to be mentioned, the question I am raising is how much should be mentioned and how should it be mentioned. Currently it has its own dedicated controversy section, which I personally think is a bit much considering it is a single incident on a show that has only recently occurred. It is always tricky with recent events as emotions are generally high, but we should probably take along term view on this as it is someones biography.

Anyway here is a link to my |proposed revision. My thinking is that since it is a single controversy relating to x-factor it can fit neatly under that heading. It also means a lot of the contextual sentences in the controversies section can be removed. It is also generally considered good-practice not to have stand alone controversy section. I would have no complaints about a seperate sub-heading for "X-factor" or even "X-factor outburst" or similar.

As to trimming it I don't think we need to have Moons comments in there as this article is not about him and hers are inflammatory enough as it is. Also there were about four sentences essentially saying that the public want her sacked. One is more than enough for this, especially as Facebook and change.org (WP:primary sources) are used. I removed the youtube link as well as that is generally frowned upon as a source (the herald covers all these bases anyway).

The main policies to follow here are WP:Undue and WP:BLP. I will also pop a note on a few wikiprojects to get more eyes here. AIR corn (talk) 01:43, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually I won't ask any Wikiprojects to join in yet. I will see if we can reach an agreement first. AIR corn (talk) 01:48, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes I think it should be trimmed per WP:Undue and should be in a section called X Factor. When trimming, bear in mind it is her main claim to fame in one country.-- haminoon  ( talk ) 02:02, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Would naming the section "2015-present New Zealand X Factor" suffice? AIR corn (talk) 02:14, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
 * "2015 New Zealand X Factor" would be more accurate. She's just been fired. -- haminoon  ( talk ) 02:17, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Was trimmed per WP:Undue buts its all crept in again. I'll leave it for someone else to trim again. The shorter version is here. -- haminoon  ( talk ) 06:29, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I like your version better. The current version seems to say that the change.org campaign was the main reason for the sacking, which isn't really supported by the references. That seems like extraneous detail at any rate as the public outcry is well covered. change.org shouldn't probably be used as a reference at any rate as it is a WP:Primary source. Also we should not use "bullied and humiliated" in wikipedias voice. Much better to say what happened, not make judgements as to what those words implied. It is up to the reader to decide whether they were bullied and humiliated. You could potentially write that her words were described as bullying and humiliating by other judges or whoever. The previous incident during an audition could probably be mentioned, but the "mired in controversy" sentence is not necessary.
 * One of the complaints seems to be that the rest of the article is too promotional. I haven't really looked into the rest of the article, but will do so now and try and reduce the peacocky terms and claims. Maybe that will help. AIR corn (talk) 20:17, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment I would disagree quite strongly. Kills poor behavior and attitude is as of now what she is most known for. Most people, including myself, probably had never even heard of Kills or her husband before they hit the news due to their behavior and subsequent firing and condemnation. What is WP:UNDUE is all the peacocking about Kills as a model and fashion icon, aspects very few would have heard of. Kills's behavior and the subsequent reactions should definitely be mentioned in the lead, given that that is what Kills is best known for.Jeppiz (talk) 13:09, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
 * This is a common problem with music artists and even other "important" articles (New York City was one I had a lot of trouble with). The trouble is that until something like this happens articles are only really edited by fans, which is understandable, and the are sometimes not the most objective people. I will have a look through it and see what I can do. As to mentioning it in the lead, I personally wouldn't object to a very brief mention. However WP:BLP is the most important thing to consider and it is strongly against blowing a single incident in a career out of proportion. Just because you and I didn't know her does not mean that she was not known before this, otherwise this article wouldn't have existed. AIR corn (talk) 20:04, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

edit request please - this just looks silly
Record producer - ??? Fashion Designer - ?? Director - ?? Singer - just about agree with that

Was the lead written by the subject herself?

Not one source for, or even mention of, being a fashion designer, or record producer in whole page so removed until sources are added. She produced one self made youtube vide, along with literally 100s of millions of other people daily, so removed as she is not a producer!

BUT YOU CANT REMOVE THEM BECAUSE IT IS PROTECTED!

Can an editor please remove these false claims until any sources are added, which they wont be because she didnt do any of the things claimed in the first sentence!!

Oh and in the lead, apparently being photographed for being a very minor celebrity now makes her a model as well!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.237.210 (talk • contribs) 09:38, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Too much fluff
I said above in the above "X-factor tirade" section that I would look through the rest of the article. I have started that and am very unimpressed. This should essentially be an overview article describing her career. Instead it seems to give minute detail on all her performances, albums, singles and other stuff that would be much better off in the sub articles. On top of that there is a lot of irrelevant material. For example there were a few instances where this article says she worked with someone and then it goes on to list some famous people that this person worked with in what can only be described as name dropping. I am going to trim it back as much as I can to an overview style article. AIR corn (talk) 06:25, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

You have done a lot in such a short time period, and its all good matey!! Well done, 1000% better article now86.135.237.210 (talk) 09:44, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

But the info box stills needs updating, producer, model etc still all in there??86.135.237.210 (talk) 09:50, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Petition link
Here's a link to the petition if you want it https://www.change.org/p/tv3-take-natalia-kills-off-xfactor

Twigman94 (talk) 22:20, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Thanks for the link, but a petition would not add value to this article. Stickee (talk) 00:29, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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trivia
I have removed trivia and unsourced claims from the article. Please can you discuss and show why they should be included before reverting?

Example, she made her professional acting debu aged 9? Where, when, who?? No citation and just trivia. Many more examples — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.148.29.211 (talk) 12:15, 3 August 2016 (UTC)