Talk:Telecaster

re: notable players
The notable players list is starting to get pretty long, and I've noticed that many of the players listed have not used the Telecaster as their primary axe during their careers, but rather have used it merely sometimes, or with certain songs or albums. For example, Jimmy Page is listed, though he is more characteristically known for his use of the Gibson Les Paul. John Frusciante is listed, even though he has usually been seen with a Stratocaster. Should we include B. B. King in the list, since he once used a Telecaster? I don't think so, since everyone knows he's a Gibson man (ES-355).

If the list starts to get much longer, I suggest breaking the entire list off into its own separate page (perhaps entitled "Famous artists who have played the Telecaster"), with notes for each artist about which famous songs or albums that they used the Telecaster on. We could retain in the Telecaster article a more exclusive list of artists who have used the Tele as their core instrument. As a guide for who should be included on this list, I suggest we limit it to those who have had a signature Telecaster designed for them by Fender, artists who are most commonly pictured playing a Telecaster guitar, or artists who usually used the Telecaster on stage and in the studio during the peaks of their careers. There might be some exceptions to these general standards, but I believe that they would do a good job of distinguishing those who use the Telecaster as their "signature" instrument from those who happened to have used a Telecaster at certain times. If every artist who used the Telecaster at some time were put in the list, it would be longer than the rest of the article. Rohirok 17:44, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Actually, Jimmy Page might be a good one to retain in the article list. If a good portion of his more prominent studio work was done with a Tele (and according to one friend of mine, it was), then this might justify his continued inclusion. Brian May was added to the list today. Here's an example of one artist that would probably be placed in the separate, more general list, since he's mostly known for using his homemade Red Special guitar. Anyway, we'll see how the list shapes up. Rohirok 03:19, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

When was Brian May ever known as a Telecaster player? Honestly, I'd vote for cutting the whole list. It seems that 8 out of 10 changes to the page come from someone adding their favorite guitarist, whether or not he has any business being included. EVERYONE played a Telecaster at some point. It's unavoidable. Auto movil 04:52, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and changed the notable players section into signature Telecaster players, specifying that those included are musicians who used it as their main guitar throughout their careers. There is also a wiki link to the new Telecaster players page, which is just the old list of notable players. I thought the list should be retained in some form, for the sake of retaining information. Hopefully, those who want to add their favorite guitarist will now do so on the Telecaster players list, reserving space in the article for those who are really known as Tele players. Rohirok 03:54, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

re: intro
I noticed today Auto movil's reversion of my edit of the first paragraph, made due to the contentions that my edit was less simple and introduced an inaccuracy. I will admit that my clarification of the term "Spanish" guitar made the intro paragraph more complex. I do think that such clarification needs to be made in some way, as most readers will not understand what this means. Perhaps not in the intro paragraph, but somewhere.

As for the inaccuracy that I supposedly introduced, I am unaware of any such inaccuracy, and Auto movil did not point out what it was. That would be an important thing to explain if reverting.

I will again edit the first paragraph, as it contains the gratuitous and inaccurate statement that the Telecaster is "for all practical purposes, the 'first electric guitar.'" As counter-examples, I offer three: The electrified acoustic played by Charlie Christian, the solid-body electric Spanish Travis-Bigsby guitar, and the electrified Rickenbacker "Frying Pan" lap guitar. All of these are electric guitars, and all of them predate the Telecaster. Contrary to the final clause of the intro paragraph, the Telecaster is not the first electric guitar, for "practical" or any other purposes. I will delete that clause. Rohirok 07:24, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * I also deleted "wooden" from the intro paragraph, as that is redundant. The Telecaster is the first mass-produced solid-body electric Spanish guitar made of any material. Rohirok 07:30, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I still think the introduction could be better. The last sentence is closer to accurate than the clause it replaces, but seems clunky and still not quite right. I think it is presumptuous to regard the Telecaster as the "first electric guitar of the type now seen as standard," since hollow body electrics lay as much claim to the "standard" title as solidbodies, and hollow body electrics preceded the Tele by several years. The phrase "For all practical purposes" is also indistinct and unnecessary if what follows it is really accurate, which it should be. What's needed is a reinforcement of the Tele's distinctiveness and importance, without leaving the reader with a false impression of the ways in which it is a "first." I'll give it a shot. Rohirok 03:36, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * I see that the "for all practical purposes" clause has been put back into the intro, and my objections to this phrase remain. It is indistinct and wishy-washy, not at all encyclopedia-like.  It seems to be claiming one thing (the Telecaster is the first...), but then totally negates that with the "for all practical purposes" qualification.  I understand there is some controversy concerning the one-pickup Esquire vs. the two-pickup Broadcaster/Nocaster/Telecaster, and whether you can really claim that the Tele is the first mass-produced wooden solidbody electro-Spanish guitar if the one-pickup model preceded it.  That controversy needs to be sorted out for the intro paragraph to be clear and accurate.  I am of the opinion that the Esquire is simply one version of the Telecaster, and that it is thus accurate to claim that the Tele is the first mass-produced wooden solidbody electro-Spanish guitar without any further qualification or equivocation.  I say this because the Esquire is even more similar to the classic Tele than later models that bear the "Telecaster" model name (such as those with two humbuckers, a Bigsby, or neck-through-body construction).  It is also significant that the Esquire was originally intended to be a two-pickup guitar--that is, it was supposed to be precisely the guitar we now call the Telecaster, and can (in my opinion) be seen as simply a Telecaster that lacks the neck pickup.  If the Strat had begun as a two-pickup guitar, and a model came out later that preserved all the original details, except with an additional pickup, would we not be correct in saying that the line began with the two-pickup version? Rohirok 12:45, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Augh. Okay, if you can find a better way to say that the Telecaster, under its original name, 'Esquire,' was the first mass-produced, wooden, solid-body Spanish electric guitar -- and that all this adds up to its being the first electric guitar of the kind most people now think of when they think of 'electric guitars,' then by all means go to it. Auto movil 02:11, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

re: wooden
There was at least one mass-produced electric Spanish guitar made of Bakelite. I believe this was the error I flagged before. Am adding a qualification.


 * Thanks for clarifying, Auto movil. I tracked down three possible exceptions to my claim that the Tele is the first mass-produced solidbody electric guitar made of any material.  One is Rickenbakker's bakelite Electro Spanish model that you mentioned.  This is not a true solidbody, however, as it did have cavities in the body.  The other Rickenbacker is the stand-mounted Vibrola Spanish electric with a heavy electrified vibrato device that made the stand necessary.  This one appears solid, though it too probably had a cavity to house the vibrato mechanism.  I also wonder if it was really mass-produced, or just an oddity that happened to be offered briefly by a major manufacturer.  I've got little information on this one other than a small picture and a caption.  A third possible exception is a solidbody electric Spanish guitar marketed by Slingerland drum company.  I don't have enough info on this one to say whether it qualifies as "mass-produced."  I am relying for these references on The Electric Guitar: An Illustrated History, edited by Paul Trynka.

thanks!
your work made me research harder and get into nuts and bolts of solid-body guitar design in the 1930s.

let's duel on the talk page, if you like.

Telecaster = Esquire?
Are the telecaster and the esquire the same guitar? Fender thinks not. According to their 2004 catalogue, it is a different guitar, albeit of the same family, that has almost always been offered in some respect alongside the Tele. I think that this needs clarifying somehow... Brother Dysk 13:01, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)

Telecaster, Broadcaster and Esquire
The original name for the Telecaster was the Broadcaster, not the Esquire. An Esquire is a variation on the Telecaster style, having only a single pickup (the bridge position, "lead" pickup) whereas the Telecaster has two pickups. In addition to the bridge pickup, it has one in the neck position, the "rhythm" pickup.


 * I know this. However, the Esquire predates the Broadcaster/Telecaster, and this makes me ponder the accuracy of the parent article stating that the Telecaster was the first mass-produced solid-body spanish steel guitar. Brother Dysk 02:43, Mar 20, 2005 (UTC)

Re: Esquire, Broadcaster, Etc.
However one sorts the early names of the guitar, 'Telecaster' is the name that the series came to hold. Therefore, the Telecaster (under whatever early name) is the first mass-produced, wooden solid-body etc.

It's also not true that the Esquire and Broadcaster were different guitars. They were the same guitar except the Esquire had one fewer pickup. Likewise, if Ford wanted to call a 5-speed Mustang a 'Mustang,' and call a 4-speed Mustang a 'Platypus,' they would be the same car, only with different gearboxes. Auto movil 03:45, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * I disagree - the Esquire was what the guitar was called with one pickup. Tele/Broadcaster was what it was called with two. Fender today (and throughout much of their history) have sold Esquires, called Esquires, that are the same as Telecasters, but with just one pickup. They do, however, still call them Esquires. Brother Dysk 12:11, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)


 * The single pickup Esquire was the first production electric Spanish from Fender, and preceded the dual pickup Broadcaster/Telecaster. Leo had originally intended for the guitar to have two pickups, but his marketing guys convinced him that a single-pickup model would have wider appeal, and it was marketed as the Esquire.  There were, however, a few dual pickup Esquires produced at the same time as the single pickup ones, and sold directly to local musicians.  These are not to be confused with the Esquires upgraded with a neck pickup after purchase, such as the one Springsteen uses. Rohirok 04:04, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)