Talk:Tempera/Archive 1

Recipe Misleading
I cannot believe that an article about tempera painting would not include the word "translucent"! This word is carefully defined in an important, if older, book about tempera painting, "The Practice of Tempera Painting", by Daniel Thompson at Yale.

Recipe Misleading
It's a poor and misleading description of the recipe, see Talk:Egg tempera. --Pjacobi 23:11, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * With all due respect to Pjacobi, it is not at all misleading. Follow his/her link and you will see my reply.Artemis-Arethusa 21:04, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Terminology Clarifications
I had never heard the terms "fat over lean" apply to tempera painting, but I see that it applies as well. I changed "fat over thin" to "fat over lean" anonymously by accident. Mrs Scarborough 17:27, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I have taken the liberty to clarify the term tempera from a historical perspective, egg is but one form of temper and I felt the cotext had to be made that bit clearer as a modern view sees tempera as one thing, when it was not. user stluke23

I notice that my attempt at clarifying the term 'temper' or tempera has given way to a dubious and incorrect description. Ironically Thompson is quite clear that a 'temper' is a generic term for binder and the term 'egg tempera' is a relatively modern one. Surely it would be of benefit to clarify this point rather than have odd comments re tempera poster paints, which in fact are correct, they are a temper(a), just not an 'egg' tempera. There is no such thing as 'true egg tempera' it is either egg tempera or tempera, by clear historical definition. Also egg was not the predominant binder, this is unfounded especially as forms of painting ranged from size (distemper), gum, lime (fresco) dependent on the substrate, I would aslo contest the use of egg (yolk) in illuminations, it is a fat binder and largely not recommended, this confuses the issue of using glair, whilst being from an egg has very different characteristics to yolk.

The opening para is too full of cliches and skewed information. Who's baby is this particular page? Stluke23 (talk) 13:01, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yours, it seems. Johnbod (talk) 13:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that erudite response. I asked because the nature of this wiki lark is such that anyone can pretty much post anything and it becomes gospel, even if clearly out of whack, fine if you like to remain ignorant but some of us do not, so the question is, who takes responsibility for the content here?

Are These Painters Tempera Painters?
I removed the following text:
 * " In Canada they are high realists Ken Danby and Robert Bateman."

because I could not find any evidence that these artists were tempera painters. In fact, I rather thought Bateman was primarily an acrylic artist. If I am incorrect, the text can be replaced. Artemis-Arethusa 20:59, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

"Mixed" Technique Ahistorical
I removed the text about the mixed tempera and oil technique because it was based on historians' speculation in the mid-twentieth century, but has little or no documentation. Recent chemical analyses of medieval and Renaissance paintings at the Metropolitan Museum of Art and elsewhere suggest that most of them were either all tempera or all oil. The oil-and-tempera theory has lingered a long time, but it has not got any factual backup. (It works as a technique, and many modern "revivalists" have taken it up, but that is not proof it ever was historically used) Artemis-Arethusa 17:50, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Headlines
I just added headlines to this talk page. It didn't have any until now and the page was getting confusing to read. Artemis-Arethusa 21:52, 12 May 2007 (UTC) Wrong! Many painters have used only black and white in Egg Tempera, and then applied colours using an emulsion Tempera, which is often related to a mixed tempera-oils technique. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.148.27.161 (talk) 18:05, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Poor External Links
User 62.56.112.4 added a couple of external links, one of which I can't make work and another which leads to a very poor, very confusing, inaccurate page on a commercial (?) website (Its unlabelled examples of egg tempera are really watercolor copies of ancient Egyptian tomb paintings, which were never egg tempera anyway). I have removed them. Artemis-Arethusa 01:26, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Merger of Distemper (paint) with Tempera
I'm not completely sure, but I guess that Distemper (paint) is treating the same paint as Tempera. Can an expert please review that? Davin7 (talk) 09:45, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No they aren't the same at all - the pigments may be, but the binding medium is completely different. Johnbod (talk) 12:39, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, thank you very much. Davin7 (talk) 18:13, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

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Artist pages needed?
Rm'ed the below names to talk since there is no verification that these artists are notable or simply linkspam (WP:N, WP:V, WP:EL). A reference link (note: an artists own websites does not meet WP:RELY) or an article on these artist would help. 75.196.92.76 (talk) 18:30, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Mavis Smith Antony Williams, Linda Paul, Michelle DeMarco,Robin-Lee Hall, Fred Wessel, Michael Bergt, Rob Milliken, Koo Schadler, Phil Schirmer, Sarah Mceneaney, Peter Messer, Lalu Prasad Shaw, Jon Gernon, Alex Garcia.

Cleanup
I did a cleanup of the article that mostly consisted of removing instruction on how to use tempera paint (Wikipedia is not a manual WP:NOTHOWTO) and re-arranging the material into more logical sections. I also added a lead section to conform with WP:LEAD. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 17:50, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

untitled
Hi,

as an owner of a painter's handbook I find this article rather confusing. The egg in temepera is not normally used for binding alone but for emulsifying ... Tempera is an emulsion as I understand. The binder is linseed oil or dammar resin, like in ordinary oil paint. Might that there be the reason, why medieval paintings often get confused for oil, when they are tempera?

Tempera, as I understand it, is always a waterbased emulsion ( not always an emulsion, rather medium because emulsion means a mix of oil and water, and the yolk is the link between) with water as the painting medium (aka. thinner). As soon as the water is evaporated, that painting layer is closed and cannot be reworked any more. So technically this resembles acrylics paint more than anything else, whereas coloristically it might resemble oil paint. I don't know, really ...

Also, why oil paintings generally should yellow, and tempera should not (using the very same binders), is unclear to me. Many temperas obviously did yellow If they did yellow, ( comment: that was because of other factors, such as smoke or dust, but egg tempera yellows very little, almost none)(if they still exist to prove it). Perhaps yellowing paintings are only due to unfavourable circumstances (like in any technique).

It's just that I don't know what to think about that article. --84.133.86.31 (talk) 12:53, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * This link went nowhere useful. I have replaced it with a citation supporting the use of tempera by Pyke Koch. It appears that the original citation was introduced for this reason (in this edit). Verbcatcher (talk) 18:06, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Some issues with the article
First it starts with also called Egg tempera, but it claims other sizing other than eggs. I was to remove some of the mediums (did with water, that one was just too obviously wrong), particularly milk-casein... because generally it isn't considered as tempera but casein. I didn't, because I need to know the rational of those who included it. Yaḥyā ‎ (talk) 20:30, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Also the article doesn't address the use of egg in the process was because of its special properties such as its emulsifying power... oil was used much prior to 1500 in Europe, it was mixed in egg which allowed water as the other medium. Since they did not make a distinction between what is now called drying oil (such as linseed) and non-drying (such as olive oil)... they used it in low concentration so that the final product be dry by the touch. Those techniques are still being used today by several artists but there is no way to verify it because no one will disclose the secret of their successful paintings. And since Wikipedia requires things to be sourced, even though everyone can test this in their kitchen, this article shall remain inaccurate for the ages to come. Yaḥyā ‎ (talk) 21:16, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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