Talk:Territorial Road (Michigan)

Transportation in Michigan History citations
I converted the Lansing State Journal citation to a clipping link on Newspapers.com, which has the added benefit of getting us the missing page number.

The other citations to articles within the PDF though are confusing me. I don't know which page numbers are being referenced: pages 1 and 2 of an article in the collection as stated on the printed pages, or pages 1 and 2 of the PDF itself. It would be beneficial to expand the footnotes to reference the authors and titles of the articles within that collection. The first article by Philip P. Mason is actually a retype of a newspaper article, so we should be citing that version, even if we include Michigan Department of Transportation and https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/RR668ADMIN_8_539527_7.pdf to provide a convenience link.  Imzadi 1979  →   19:24, 5 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your work on that, ! I appreciate it.


 * Yes, the PDF reference became kind of cludgy. At first, I used the initial printed page numbers - as it is my tendency to use the printed page numbers of books, documents, journal pages, etc. I then realized with the Lansing State Journal article that the pdf was a collection of documents. That's why I made a separate citation for that newspaper article. Thanks for taking it a step further!–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:28, 5 March 2022 (UTC)


 * I broke out the citation for the newspaper article on the physical page 11. I didn't find the article on newspapers.com–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:36, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Various alignments
At 42.2097°N, -85.9866°W in West Michigan, Territorial Road splits from the Red Arrow Highway route, and is part of the original road per a plaque and a road sign(s) in the settlement of Keeler, continuing west to Benton Harbor. As for the Red Arrow Highway route west of the split, it's not clear if it was part of the original Territorial route. I'm not finding any references designating it as such in the trunkline era, when and after it started carrying M-17, but it's quite possible that it became a northern routing, or possibly the only official routing, in the late 19th Century due to the rail lines eventually serving the towns in the corridor and the towns' new importance from that (east to west: Lawrence, Hartford, Watervliet, and Coloma). I hesitate to call it a potential north branch, because there's an actual North Branch Road in Berrien County between it and the southern routing, which may or may not be related.

There is also a North Territorial Road at the other end, in Washtenaw and Wayne Counties. I'm not sure if this is the same situation.

Chicago Road
Also, if I remember correctly – no RSs on hand right now – the Chicago Road split from the Territorial Road at Jackson then followed the modern M-60 route southwest to Niles then continued southwestward into Indiana (the name survives here). This is not to be confused with Chicago Road designations along the Old Sauk Trail Route (modern US-12/old US-112), such as in Coldwater.

Mapsax (talk) 01:30, 30 August 2022 (UTC)


 * , There is information about Chicago Road in this archived document. Does this help?–CaroleHenson (talk) 04:55, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Aaah. "The Chicago Road, also called the Chicago Turnpike, and still later, the Old Chicago Road, left Detroit on Michigan Avenue, now US-12. It passed through Ypsilanti, Ann Arbor, Chelsea, Grass Lake, Jackson, Parma, Albion, Marshall, Battle Creek, Kalamazoo, Paw Paw, Coloma, Stevensville, Bridgman, Benton Harbor, St. Joseph and New Buffalo." That's a good find. Most documents of that type are usually more vague. Now, though, since Coloma is listed, there's proof that the (Old) Chicago Road followed a different route than the original Territorial Road, the northern vs. southern routing that I mentioned above, so perhaps a distinction between the two should be mentioned.
 * The problem overall, of course, is that any number of roads in a web would've been called "the Chicago Road" because of all the ways to avoid the southern end of Lake Michigan. [Edit From the same doc: "Since 1824, the actual roads, trails and paths followed by Detroit-Chicago traffic have changed constantly."] Perhaps a dab page is in order if we can get equally reliable sources for the others? Mapsax (talk) 00:44, 31 August 2022 (UTC)