Talk:Territorial evolution of the Ottoman Empire

East and south borders of Turkish Empire
The gif map about territorial changes of the Ottoman Empire is a clever one. Nevertheless, I 've seen some flaws. Between 17.th to 19.th century, Azerbaijan Armenia, and Kuban (north east corner of Black Sea) as well as Red sea shores of Sudan, Eritrea and even parts of Somalia have been included in Ottoman realm. Well, the Ottoman rule on those countries was very brief, several years atmost. Thus I suggest that the map should be revised. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 10:09, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, at least in the northeast, this is poorly done: between 1672* and 1829 showing Circassia and Transcaucasia (except Georgia after 1783) in the Ottoman realm. -- * The 1683 map in the series, next after 1672, intended to show greatest extent i believe, is no longer used here.
 * That is, no Russo-Persian border until 1829 (or Russo-Persian Wars), nor any autonomous realm on the Caspian Sea.
 * See our maps Treaty of Gulistan (1812), Treaty of Turkmenchay (1828).
 * Earlier we say "The Khanates of the Caucasus were Turkic ruled principalities under Iranian domination."
 * Yet earlier we say "At the height of the Ottoman-Persian wars, Yerevan changed hands fourteen times between 1513 and 1737." That much contested border was roughly the modern border of Turkey with Armenia and Iran, far from the Caspian Sea. (Armenians in the Persianate)

--P64 (talk) 22:13, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Nissa→Niš
I changed the name Nisa with Niš in the treaty signed in in 1739. For the discussion, please see the talk page of the said treaty.Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 07:08, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

The maps need to be updated to show borders of the other countries at the time they existed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.100.103.160 (talk) 00:29, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Small change 1451
I've made small change to the 1451 section,I've added that Constantinople fell in 1453, I did not however change the map which is still incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.105.246.46 (talk) 17:05, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

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Difference?
As far as I can tell, the maps for 1566 and 1639, and the maps for 1798 and 1801 are completely identical (or at least showing the same borders). Why show a map of the "territorial changes" when there is no change in the maps? Why not use one map for each period, 1566-1639 and 1798-1801? Or is there some subtle change that I didn't catch? I never was much good at those "Spot the differences between these two pictures" games. AnnaGoFast (talk) 01:46, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Shockingly inaccurate maps
A LOT of the maps on this page are inaccurate, in pretty grievous ways. Some examples:

1451: Map depicts southern Greece as Ottoman controlled, areas which wouldn't be annexed for another decade. 1481: Map bizarrely depicts Ottoman northern border as coinciding exactly with the modern border between Hungary and Croatia. In fact the Ottomans didn't control anything north of Bosnia. 1520: Map wrongly depicts Cyprus and Crete as Ottoman. Makes the same mistakes along the northern border as the previous map. 1566: Map wrongly depicts the Ottomans' northern border stretching all the way to Vienna. The Ottomans besieged Vienna in 1529, but did not annex territory that far north. Wrongly depicts a huge chunk of Ukraine as Ottoman. Wrongly depicts Crete and Cyprus as Ottoman. Wrongly depicts Yemen as not being Ottoman. 1639: Same errors as previous map. Also wrongly depicts Tunis as not being Ottoman. 1672: Same errors as previous map. 1683: Same errors as previous map. Wrongly depicts Azerbaijan as Ottoman. Wrongly depicts the whole Red Sea coast of Africa as Ottoman. Wrongly depicts Yemen as Ottoman.

I could go on. But my point is that every single map has major errors. They are of shockingly low quality. So I'm tagging the whole page as of dubious factual accuracy. Chamboz (talk) 23:24, 20 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree. I suggest all maps removed due to their inaccuracy. Nochyyy (talk) 09:54, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Much later comment here but I think it's in the same vein: I've reverted an edit by which created an "All Territories Possessed by the Ottomans" section at the bottom of the page with a map that shows a hugely expanded Ottoman Empire. Not only is it inconsistent with the page's overall organization, but it is at least partly based on original research. The editor, respectfully but regrettably, has a track record so far of fishing through sources, interpreting any mention of vassalage or tribute to the Ottomans as "Ottoman possession", and using that as justification for making original maps that inflate the territory of the empire in a way not presented by standard scholarship. The fact that the section begins with the statement "This map shows areas not typically included in most Ottoman maps" is itself a red flag. The map itself doesn't provide any sources or explain how the author determined the borders shown here. The map also clearly includes territories that were not conquered by the Empire itself but by its de facto independent vassals (e.g. Muhammad Ali's conquest of the Sudan in the 19th century), and then moreover combines this territorial "possession" with much earlier and temporary occupations of territory elsewhere (e.g. brief 16th-century interventions into Morocco on behalf of local dynastic pretenders/rivals); resulting in a map that doesn't actually correspond to any historical phase of the empire. Even if some of the facts might be technically or partially correct under a specific interpretation, it's generally confusing to readers and it's not the point of an encyclopedic article, which is supposed to represent established scholarly consensus, not editors' personal research and interpretation (again, please thoroughly review the WP:OR policy and what it means). R Prazeres (talk) 01:24, 18 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Yes please absolutely. I couldn’t get past the Ottoman Empire in Northwestern Scotland in 1300. So not an Ottoman possession at the time. Conceivably they may have visited but that area was all about Viking settlements at the time, so you would think there would have been an encounter in somebody’s foraging foray. Elinruby (talk) 14:18, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

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 * Territorial changes of the Ottoman Empire 1774.jpg (discussion)
 * Territorial changes of the Ottoman Empire 1783.jpg (discussion)
 * Territorial changes of the Ottoman Empire 1792.jpg (discussion)
 * Territorial changes of the Ottoman Empire 1798.jpg (discussion)
 * Territorial changes of the Ottoman Empire 1801.jpg (discussion)
 * Territorial changes of the Ottoman Empire 1817.jpg (discussion)

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