Talk:Terry Virgo

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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:25, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Notablilty tag
What do we have to do to establish notability? He is the main leader of one of the fastest growing church groups in the UK... Hyper3 (talk) 16:30, 21 August 2011 (UTC)


 * What we need is significant coverage in reliable third-party sources. If he is indeed "the main leader of one of the fastest growing church groups in the UK", then surely the British press would have written about him? HrafnTalkStalk(P) 17:29, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Oddly enough, he seems to have gotten more coverage by the American press than the British -- though there's little depth to it. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 17:34, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Also in response to the message you left on my user-talk, books by Virgo aren't really useful at all -- we need books about him. 17:36, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, it would appear from Newfrontiers that the only source for Newfrontiers being "one of the fastest growing church groups in the UK" is Newfrontiers itself. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 17:45, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * WP:PRIMARY says "primary sources that have been reliably published may be used in Wikipedia, but only with care." Would you help me do so? Hyper3 (talk) 18:39, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I want to remove the notability tag. The three scholarly sources I can find are William K Kay 'Apostolic Networks in Britain: New Ways of Being Church (Milton Keynes: Paternoster, 2007), and Andrew Walker Restoring the Kingdom: the Radical Christianity of the House Church Movement 4th Ed (Guildford: Eagle, 1998) and Hocken's entry on Virgo in New International Dictionary of Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements... Hyper3 (talk) 19:25, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

What the hell does "enjoyed a powerful personal hegemony" mean?
It's nothing but meaningless jargon! HrafnTalkStalk(P) 17:57, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

I would further point out that the source does not make this statement in an unqualified manner, but rather that he, along with Bryan Jones "enjoyed a powerful personal hegemony" "among the house churches". It is however not clear if the source is using it in the same context as House church -- which makes no mention of a UK branch of this movement. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 18:09, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

I've attempted to clarify it using (slightly) less obtuse wording from around the quote. I do however suspect that a translation into every-day English would be helpful. Would something along the lines of "enjoyed a high degree of authority and control" be acceptable? HrafnTalkStalk(P) 18:23, 21 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Tired and hungry? I was hoping we could work civilly together on this. It is my area of expertise butI would prefer to work with someone else on sorting out this mess. I understand "hegemony" perfectly well as an English word - this is an encyclopedia. It seems by adding the link that anyone who wants to know more can find out. It is a reasonably damaging thing to say, and I think needs a direct quote, or others will quibble. It describes him as personally powerful within his sphere. Introducing the idea of "house church" is not useful at this point - it is old terminology. See British New Church Movement. Hyper3 (talk)
 * Having read Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game series, I also know what "hegemony" means -- but most readers won't. and without some sort of clarification, qualification, or context, it really doesn't mean much more than 'him heap powerful'. And removing a valid tag is hardly a good way of fostering a 'civil' working relationship. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 18:40, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The tag wasn't valid without a corresponding note on the talk page. Now I understand that your objection related to vocabulary - some won't understand it. I don't agree, or we would have to quibble over much of what is in wikipedia. Indeed, there is a simple-English version for those without a well developed vocabulary. As an objection, I don't think it is wikipedia appropriate, as this is such a grey area. Your opinion or mine? Nonetheless, let's try to reach a compromise. Has it not been resolved with the link? Hyper3 (talk) 18:53, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * (i) Yes, I failed to follow the link to WP:Please clarify to read the small print -- so sue me! (ii) No, it is not just a question of vocabulary (though the word is rarely used these days -- so would not be familiar to most readers), it is the fact that talking about his "hegemony" is meaningless unless you specify what he has hegemony over, and how this hegemony is exercised. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 19:05, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The answer to "what" would appear to be these "house churches", the answer to "how" would appear to be by acting in the role of bishop or apostle. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 19:07, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Get some dinner and then answer the question: does the link resolve the problem? Hyper3 (talk) 19:19, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * As Virgo is not a state, or even an emperor ("Hegemony ... is the indirect form of imperial dominance with which the hegemon (leader state) rules sub-ordinate states, by the implied means of power, rather than direct military force.") -- no. Hegemony is used here as a metaphor, rather than in its original literal meaning (a meaning that readers will be even less familiar with than the metaphor) -- which is what is linked to. HrafnTalkStalk(P) 19:27, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Incorrect / defamatory bio information
Hi there, I've removed some information in the initial paragraph that claimed that Virgo had his 5 children by 3 different women. Simply incorrect information and there is no source for this information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tom Scrivens (talk • contribs) 14:30, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

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