Talk:Testimony

Untitled
Should we include the religious definition of "testimony" here? Bccomm 11:58, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Philosophy
The philosical definition is just any stuff your told. See Testimony, philosophical problems of. --JK the unwise 18:52, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The real etymology
has nothing to do with testes. It comes from testis "witness" with a deep PIE root in *tris "three", embodying the notion of a "third" party, an impartial witness It seems a shame to spoil the fun, though. --Wetman 00:39, 15 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, go ahead if you can include a source. Tom Haws 14:47, May 16, 2005 (UTC)

law
Isn't this law section ridiculously US-centric?

You're right. Feel free to add any examples you have from elsewhere. Or you could just whine about the work someone else did. Either way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.196.140.214 (talk) 02:08, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Testify
Etymology is cited as follows:-

(pl. testes), 1704, from L. testis "testicle," usually regarded as a special application of testis "witness" (see testament), presumably because it "bears witness" to virility (cf. Gk. parastates, lit. "one that stands by;" and Fr. slang témoins, lit. "witnesses"). But Buck thinks Gk. parastatai "testicles" has been wrongly associated with the legal sense of parastates "supporter, defender" and suggests instead parastatai in the sense of twin "supporting pillars, props of a mast," etc. Walde, meanwhile, suggests a connection between testis and testa "pot, shell, etc."

Presumably, this was because only men could bear witness in ancient Rome. Nowadays no such restriction exists and it would be inaccurate to use this word when a woman bears witness. Therefore when a woman gives evidence, the word to use should be "BREASTIFY". (Unsigned comment added 6th August 2005 by 203.186.238.232)


 * On a similar note someone added:


 * 'The word "Testimony" comes from an ancient Roman tradition in which men would verify promises by putting a hand on their testicles.'


 * As its the users only ever edit, and is unsourced I removed it for now, if it happens to be true then I think someone will have to show a reputable source or most people will probably assume its a joke. Sfnhltb 14:02, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Testify and testimony derive from Latin testis, meaning "witness". The etymology of the second meaning of "testis", i.e. "testicle", is uncertain, according to the OED2. Lewis and Short also have two distinct lemmas for testis. Any connection between the two senses is speculative, and there doesn't seem to be a consensus among scholars as to whether the two senses are or aren't related. --MarkSweep (call me collect) 05:34, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Malick78 08:56, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * See here for a good explanation of the urban myth


 * Section is back - it was backed up by a google search, an irrelevant list of Bible vulgarities, some random person's blog, and some random person's one-line reply on Wikianswers. I removed these references. --99.245.206.188 (talk) 06:58, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Testimonio
I just want to call attention to the discussion on testimonio regarding [[Rigoberta Menchu]]´s autobiography. Also discussed on [[Journalism scandals]] page.

Testimony's Hebraic origin
I have to disagree with all the naysayers on this. The word originally came from ancient Judea, and it was a rite in which a hand was placed on an elder's testes. I recently read this in Will Durant's Story of Civilization, The Age of Faith. If this is wrong then someone refute it, but this act was literally performed in ancient Judea.

In the Bible Abraham has someone put his hand under Abraham’s thigh to swear an oath on the children he had been promised by God. Some have thought that the person was to put the hand on Abraham’s circumcision, the symbol of the covenant.

Tyhou (talk) 01:26, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Etymology
Testicle, diminutive of testis, a witness. (Latin) Witness of manhood. Source: An etymological dictionary of the English language By Walter William Skeat, page 633. Link USchick (talk) 13:30, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Jazz
I came here to see what the meaning of testify as it relates to Jazz and the song Jazzman. Could someone add something on it (the meaning)?--Auric (talk) 18:39, 17 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Hello Auric,
 * I looked up the lyrics to the song "Jazzman" on Spotify. I listened to a performance by Carole King. The lyrics are, "When the jazzman's testifyin'[,] a faithless man believes." In my layman's opinion as a native American English speaker, to "testify" as Carole King intended means "to perform something or to express something with all one's effort and strength, to the best of their ability, and without conveying anything untrue". Usually, performers like musicians, clergy, or public speakers in general are said to be testifying when they are performing or expressing something that is intended to leave an impression on a listener/audience. What is expressed is usually expressed in a clear and loud manner because they want listeners to especially understand what they are saying. Especially in religious contexts, the performer may be at a point of ecstasy because they are expressing something that is important and with great emotion because it is something that is true. The speaker will most likely use a louder tone.
 * Listeners, for their part, may reply to the speaker/performer with the expression, "Testify!" and may do so in a tone that equals or is just below the speaker's volume. This expression is equivalent of the American expressions "Exactly right!" or "You can say that again!" or "Darn tootin'!" The listeners agree with the speaker and want the speaker to keep communicating.
 * A charismatic or evangelical church service may be most illustrative of what the expression "to testify" means. Listeners and speakers especially get emotional in these types of services. The term probably refers to when a speaker at such service utters something that is intended to impress the audience. The speaker communicates in a loud tone because he/she wants the listeners to be convinced that what is being communicated is genuine and true. The listeners, if they are convinced, may shout in reply, "Testify!" In the United States, during the First and Second Great Awakenings and even today, religious services have often been carried out in this charismatic way, although it is growingly rare from what I have seen in the anecdotal evidence on which I rely.
 * Carole King thus expresses that the jazzman is performing well and performing music in a way that engages the audience like a preacher who has said something that resonates with the audience. King even parallels the jazzman's performance of music with an atheist's sudden belief in something so convincing regarding something religious. That is what the meaning of "to testify" is. 2603:7080:BC39:3C84:B40B:81E4:515:69F6 (talk) 19:25, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 07:52, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Splitting religious and legal testimony
I think these should be split per WP:CONSPLIT, and Christian testimony should be set up as a separate article - we don't usually discuss the biblical tradition or uses of a word in our law articles, its meaning in NT is at times broader then the legal usage (as in Matt. 10:18 - not WP:OR, the analysis and cited verse are from the New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology) Seraphim System  ( talk ) 03:46, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Fully concur. --Coolcaesar (talk) 00:13, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

This article is a total mess
Here is my brainstorming on how to clean it up.

First, the legal and religious definitions should be split, as suggested above.

Second, the legal definition is a mess. I am going to revise the legal definition to clearly explain first what testimony should be (normally based on percipient knowledge) before diving into the lay/expert witness dichotomy.

The discussions of what is acceptable expert witness testimony and of objections are way too long because we already have separate articles on those. So I will shorten those up. Coolcaesar (talk) 16:08, 21 April 2023 (UTC)