Talk:Tetsusaiga

Tetsusaiga vs. Tessaiga
Shouldn't there be at least a mention of the debate over the proper spelling? The furigana on the episode titles (#34 for instance) clearly say てっさいが (with a small tsu), making it "Tessaiga".

''It's also "Tessaiga" in the manga, and this whole issue arose from one translator's mistake when it came to translating some of the first issues of the manga, as it wasn't always entirely clear that the 'tsu' was meant to indicate a glottal stop (it has been since made clear by Rumiko Takahashi, author of the Inuyasha manga). Seeing as the origins of the anime and manga are Japan, and the intent for the original (both spelling and pronunciation) was "Tessaiga", the article shouldn't even be named for the American mistranslation. VIZ made the mistake and they got stuck with it, that doesn't mean the mistake should be perpetuated and encouraged.'' - Reene 09:39, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Manual_of_Style_for_Japan-related_articles says "Wikipedia is an English encyclopedia. An English word or name with a Japanese origin should be used in its English form in the body of an article, even if that is pronounced or spelled differently from the properly romanized Japanese form: use Mount Fuji, Tokyo, jiu jitsu, shogi and not Fujisan, T&#333;ky&#333;, j&#363;jutsu, sh&#333;gi. Give the romanized Japanese form in the opening paragraph if it differs from the English form (see below)." I don't see any reason to do otherwise. The romanization is already used in the English-language InuYasha media. I have elaborated on how "Shippo" is different from "Shipp&#333;". THAT is how to prevent people from being confused. WhisperToMe 15:58, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * How petty. I knew I shouldn't have mentioned it. Even most American Inuyasha fans (at least ones not of the Adult Swim ilk) acknowledge the fact that it is in fact spelled properly as Tessaiga. Why do you have to keep creating problems where there are none? JoshG is right- This word has no establishment in the English language, unlike other words with Japanese origin, therefore the proper spelling should be used. I don't want to get into a frelling revert war with you. Leave well enough alone, especially when you're only changing it to prove a point. Reene (&#12522;&#12491;) 01:49, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Reene, I'm not changing it "to prove a point" ;) - I'm changing it because I feel that it is most appropriate for the English-language encyclopedia, even if it is technically incorrect. Reene, as that Etchi argument above shows, what's technically correct doesn't matter that much at all.

I tried to move Mega Man to Rockman long ago, but they made me change it. "Mega Man" is how everybody knows that guys' name. Even if some other form was technically his original name, the best way to show that character here is to say "Mega Man". That's why Ash Ketchum is there and not "Satoshi". We generally use the form that English-speakers know it as.

The purpose of Wikipedia is NOT to be any kind of advocacy. It is to reflect what English speakers say and do. And that includes the Adult Swim crowd. We can always say that "Tessaiga" is the correct usage but that the English versions use "Tetsusaiga" instead because of a translation error. In other words, correctness of romanization doesn't matter all that much in this case. WhisperToMe 02:33, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * The fundamental difference in the two examples you cited is the fact that they were intentionally Americanized and not merely translated. And as I said, it IS known as Tessaiga in English- a comparative handful of the fanbase (though admittedly some of the most vocal ones- those AS Inuyasha fans get downright vicious) doesn't change the fact that most do acknowledge it as "Tessaiga" and furthermore realize "Tetsusaiga" was an unfortunate mistranslation. Now, admittedly, it would be pretty much impossible to get actual hard numbers on this (mere web searches don't prove a thing) but that goes for both of us. That said, why is keeping it as it is a problem? It is still in the interest of correctness and respect to the actual anime/manga. Reene (&#12522;&#12491;) 12:37, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Reene, the kanji that makes up Tetsusaiga/Tessaiga can be read either way. What will determine the "proper" word is this pronunciation. However, the audio clip that JoshG provided was ambiguous. WhisperToMe 02:28, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

As I understand it, Tetsusaiga is the proper pronunciation but Tessaiga is the more common slurred pronunciation. I suppose it is sort of like the difference between the English "I'm going to" and "I'm gonna". Think about it; if you're in the heat of battle and in need of saying your sword's name, are you really going to take the name to enunciate it clearly? Probably not. 64.50.95.2 07:58, 28 January 2006 (UTC)


 * No. In the original Japanese version, the characters consistently call the sword "Tessaiga" in and out of battle. Hairouna 18:24, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Rumiko Takahashi has also stated her piece, saying it was "Tessaiga" all along. Lankybugger 14:11, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I had always thought it was Tetsaiga until reading this article. But if its correct name is Tessaiga and its called Tessaiga in the comic book, then that could be considered out-numbered two to one, couldn't it?

So, can anyone actually confirm that Takahashi has said something on the matter? Because to me, it looks to be a large tsu. Japanese scan I mean, a small tsu (or any other kana for that matter) is usually thinner than the other kana when written vertically like that, and shorter than the other kana when written horizontally. Can anyone else provide other Japanese scans or audio clips? I'm interested in this debate. Chibi Gohan 03:24, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Being an outsider constantly looking in to the whole Wikipedia process, it seems obvious to me that if the originating version was meant to be Tessaiga (which I can understand), instead of Tetsaiga (which someone previously mentioned, and what I've always heard it as), that I'd like to see it listed at Tessaiga. I want to know what it is supposed to be. If I search for Tetsaiga, let "Tessaiga" appear as a suggested result. At that point in time, I will investigate, and find that, in fact, it is the article that I'm looking for. Humans seem to have this ability. Arguing over how to list it is absolutely a waste of time. List it, use it, name it as it is supposed to be named. Then just add metadata to the search. Then I (and most people) will read about how a mistake was made, leading us to believe it was one spelling/pronunciation instead of another. You're all petty.

According to all my Japanese texts, and I mean ALL of them, the proper spelling is "Tetsusaiga". However, when speaking Japanese, the "u" sound is dropped, making it sound like "Tetssaiga", hence the pronunciation "Tessaiga". Spelling wise, it should be "Tetsusaiga", as the natural sound for 鉄 is "tetsu". Ryoga-2003 12:49, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

In contrast to the first comment, it is NOT spelled "Tessaiga" in the manga. I have the first fourteen volumes, I would know. They spell it "Tetsusaiga." You need to get it right. And we are not petty, we're devoted. Get YOUR words right, too. And most people do NOT pronounce it "Tessaiga." If they PRONOUNCE it, they say TETSAIGA, which is the pronunciation. The SPELLING is "Tetsusaiga." Y'all are pissing me off. Get it right, the creators, translaters, and TRUE fans all say it's spelled "Tetsusaiga." 8:15 PM, 6 May 2007

'''while the individual kanji may be read as such ("tetsu[鉄]" "sai[砕]" "ga[牙]"), when they are combined into a compound word, their phonetics are altered for linguistic convenience. This phonetic change is customary for "tsu" sounds in particular, with the "tsu" sound becoming minimal in the resultant compound. So, tetsusaiga (てつさいが ) becomes tessaiga (てっさいが). basically, if there is a small tsu, that means that that small tsu is silent, but the following consanant is drawn out. So, Tessaiga which includes the small tsu draws out the following 's'. in other words, because of the short tsu the romanization is different from an actual phonetical / direct translation.--88wolfmaster 03:46, 7 May 2007 (UTC)'''


 * anyways, there is a note describing the mistranslation, and I try my best to keep wiki consistant so what is the problem with accepting the TRUTH.--88wolfmaster 03:57, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * 88wolfmaster is precisely correct. Another example of this would be when you combine the kanji "tetsu[鉄]"　with the kanji "sa[鎖]" which is the kanji for chain. Together it is pronounced (tessa "てっさ") or iron chain. or a well known one would be like "Teppanyaki 鉄板焼き" a combonation of the first 2 kanji ("tetsu[鉄]" "pan[板])=(Teppan "てっぱん") which means iron plate -- Aoikumo 10:40, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

whatever! you wanna go to borders the bookstore and check for yourself? huh?cuz i'm pretty sure the PROFESSIONAL translators of the ACTUAL thing would know. and it's also spelled that way in like 85% of the anime subbed by fans or dubbed in titles. web scanlations dont count, unless you get a book and scan it yourself with your own scanner. 8:05 May 12, 2007


 * LOL wow, calm down, calm down. lol it's so funny to see you get all flustered, but there's no need for that, please relax. Besides Why are you so determined to prove your point? Instead of just yelling at everyone, why don't you take your own advice, try showing evidence or scanning some of your manga (if it's the original japanese ones of course) as examples of why you think it as such. like these two episode title & this episode title close-up that may be more convincing then just yelling at people. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.210.125.131 (talk) 09:27, 13 May 2007 (UTC).
 * well, that settles that. Those screenshots 204.125.131 posted, definately show "てっさいが" which means it is "Tessaiga"...at least in the anime version. Does anyone have a image of the manga version of it? And 67.64.114.30, "PROFESSIONAL" translators can and do make mistakes all the time. In any anime or manga you watch or read, there will always be mistakes, mistranslations, ect...and I have to agree with 204.210.125.131, you should really follow your own advice and scan some of your own images if there's proof, because yelling out your own opinions unhelpfully doesn't really count either lol. =P Aoikumo 20:52, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Yet, we cannot say that VIZ actually made any mistakes unless we find a written, sourced, reliably checked documentation explicitly stating that VIZ made a mistake. See RS. If this documentation exists, cite it within the article. WhisperToMe 03:59, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Fine, but i'm rephrasing the note for the non-believers.--88wolfmaster 04:24, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Just remember that the reason why we cannot state that VIZ made a mistake is due to the No original research idea. WhisperToMe 06:36, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Manual_of_Style_for_Japan-related_articles: "8. Names should be romanized according to common usage (see below), which includes unconventional romanizations by licensees (e.g., Devil Hunter Yohko and Tenjho Tenge)." Shouldn't it be "Tetsusaiga" then? Even if it's wrong, that's how it's pronounced and written in the English InuYasha. --Zantetsken (talk) 03:06, 4 April 2008 (UTC) WhisperToMe (talk) 04:19, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 1. We do not know if "Tetsusaiga" is deliberate or a mistake because we have no Reliable sources saying that it was a mistake
 * 2. We ought to use "Tetsusaiga" due to that convention. All published English language versions refer to the sword as Tetsusaiga.

You are misusing Wikipedia rules. If there is no reliable source describing it as a mistake, that means we can't have an article which says "this is a mistake". It doesn't mean we can't *treat* it as a mistake.

You're also misusing the manual of style. It nowhere says we must go by "published English versions"; common usage isn't the same thing as published usage. Moreover, common sense should tell you that an example where the licensee made a *mistake*, rather than an intentionally unconventional translation, shouldn't be used regardless. We are not supposed to follow the rule blindly. Ken Arromdee (talk) 07:34, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Arromdee: That is still OR. WhisperToMe (talk) 23:29, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've never seen a clearer example of the rules working as they were intended in my entire time in the wikipedia. Until you come up with an authoritative source that says its a mistake, any edit based on that assumption is OR, and needs to be reverted.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 17:09, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, and much of the debate up here was in 2004, when the OR policy was not in place. WhisperToMe (talk) 23:29, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Neither NOR nor RS require that we may not edit based on research saying it's a mistake. It just means we can't say "this is a mistake".  We make decisions based on original research all the time; for instance, we might make a decision about what to put in an article based on getting a lot of Google hits, even though drawing a conclusion based on Google hits is original research.
 * And even then, while we can't say "this is a mistake", we can say things like "this is not how it reads in Japanese, and Viz doesn't claim to have changed it intentionally". 208.100.228.233 (talk) 03:51, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Meaning of Name
What does Tetsusaiga/Tessaiga mean? What's the literal translation of the kanji? crazyeddie 20:41, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * According to this page, the sword's name means "iron-crushing fang". It's a literal translation of the kanji, which does not always work, due to sometimes obscure readings. It sounds plausible enough, though. Josh 01:35, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)

I've put that in the article. Hopefully if that's not correct, somebody will come along and change it. crazyeddie 06:10, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Any ideas about Tenseiga? crazyeddie 06:12, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * See my comments on Talk:Tenseiga. Josh 09:20, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)

Kusanagi
Anyone have the feeling that the Tessaiga is related to the Kusanagi?  For example, the kusanagi has the power to control wind, ie windscar... and fire, ie backlash wave. Shouldn't this be included in the entry?

In the third movie, Kagome's grandfather mistakes Inuyasha's father's sword Souunga for Kusanagi although he calls it Murakumo no Tsurugi.

sword upgrades
I made a number of edits just now. Besides what I noted in my summary, the desciption of the Hosenki incident seemed subtly false. I agree it seems like Hosenki hadn't decided whether or not to let his head break until after Inuyasha stopped trying to cut it. But I believe he says the test started with the sword attacks, and that his diamond shard response would have killed Inuyasha if the hanyou had sought only power (or words to that effect.) Finally a fracture appears where Inuyasha tried to cut him.

So far I haven't changed this other part, but I'd like clarification: ''When he attempted to cut the barrier orb, he could not cut it due to a barrier around the orb. However, when he felt compassion for Shiori and protected her from the orb's power, he was able to obtain the orb's power without ever having cut it.'' This seems misleading if we go by the anime. Did the manga portray it differently? In the show, a ghost of the demon grandfather who once had the power appears and Inuyasha cuts the ghost with the sword. In a sense, he does gain the power by cutting a demon that created powerful barriers as per his original instructions, just not quite the way he expected. Dan 23:58, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Article Itself
The article in its entirety is confusing. The editors constantly switch from Japanese to English and back like it is interchangeable to an outside viewer. The whole article is poorly written and should be redone. I've taken very little Japanese and reading this article is like walking through a mine field of obfuscation.


 * You have a point, but it's not totally confusing. I feel that it's just that the whole debate Tessaiga vs. Tetsusaiga begins to feel like wading in treacle. I suggest we use common sense and stop fighting over the finer points everyone has. If it's mostly Tessaiga everywhere and even Takahashi has acknowledged it, then that should be it. I mean sometimes we should learn to give up an argument when it just obscures the point even more than it already is. I hope nobody gets me wrong. I respect everyone's contribution. --Doppelgangland 12:45, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Adamant Barage
Is there any information on why this attack shoots diamond shards during InuYasha's era but not in the modern day? I don't remember them figuring out why in the series so I came here for that out of curiosity (maybe it was mentioned in the manga or something?). Wa 09:22, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Father's intent of the swords
As much as I appreciate the writers of this article putting together a theory about Tenseiga and Tessaiga, maybe there should be in another subsection (Theories and Speculations, maybe) as to not confuse readers what has happened, and what can be deduced. --Thebes195.226.241.156 17:25, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I disagree. See WP:NOT. --Imaginationac (Talk | Edits) 22:04, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Kaze no kizu vs Windscar...
OK, I may just be compulsive here, but there's a lot of Kaze no Kizu links out there, which redirect to this article. I've changed many of those to point directly to the Kaze no Kizu section of the article. Since a lot of editors seem to prefer the Japanese terms, I assume that this constitutes consensus. To use the English expression would involve a lot of work fixing those links for one thing, so I would like to see some justifications for such a change.--Boffob 03:23, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Justification for changing "Kaze to Kizu" to "Wind Scar"? The main justifcation would be that the number of people who watch Inuyasha dubbed and look at this article outnumber the weaboo girls who watch it subbed roughly 100 to 1. It really needs to be fixed, along with other attack names and pontless Japanese terms like "yokai". - The Norse 00:49, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Just because you think the Japanese terms are pointless doesn't mean they should be changed. Yokai does not mean demon. Miko isn't the same as priestess. And so on. I would also point out there are more that just weaboo girls and people who watched Inuyasha on AS reading this article. The Japanese names are the original. I think they should stay with the English in parentheses.--Slotedpig 04:00, 24 August 2007 (UTC)


 * While we're at it, let's change all the nouns in the article to their original Japanese words too. They're not swords, they're katanas! Fang? What's that? Kiba is the original term! You know, I think I'm going to go over to the Naruto articles and change all the technique names to their original romanji names, and do the same for every other anime article on Wikipedia! You're so right! The Japanese names are the originals and us gaijin shouldn't be changing the names of things from over there to words with negligibly different meanings over here! It's not right! ^_________^


 * I think you misunderstood that second part though, I'm referring to the fact that many, many more people browsing Wikipedia have seen the English-language version of Inuyasha and not the original. It just makes more sense to have the English names prominent and the originals in paranthesis. - The Norse 04:32, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

If you want to go and switch the Japanese attacks to english and then fix ALL the links/redirects be my guest. As long as you keep the original in paranethesis. But I would argue on other terms (because a lot of them have many english names). Question though what would you propose to do about Meidou Zangetsuha?--88wolfmaster 04:45, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Meigetsuwha? I think I had that for lunch. My guess would be to either leave the currently Japanese-only names the same or switch them to a rough translation like the Naruto pages do. - The Norse 05:11, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
 * personally i'd prefer if they were kept the same, seeing is how thats the only way i know them.--88wolfmaster 05:28, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Under History
i can't believe no one has seen this, so maybe i'm wrong. but at the very beginning of the "History" section, it says "(though this requirement is only seen once)". i saw an episode the other day and they made it obvious that he saw the girl safe (and acknowledged it in a nonverbal aside to the viewer) before the tessaiga changed back to normal. i can't say every time he uses it because i haven't seen the cartoon in a while, which is why i said something here instead of erasing that part in the actual article. but if anyone else out there agrees, i think "(though this requirement is only seen once)" should be erased. maybe changed to something along the lines of, this requirement isn't always made obvious. or like when his brother wields it with the use of a human hand it seems like maybe he was able to transform it just because he's so powerful. so maybe it could say something like, this requirement isn't always made obvious and may not be necessary with sufficient power or mastery. what do you think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thinkdunson (talk • contribs) 10:01, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * As I recall, the sword will only transform in the hands of a hanyou protecting a human female. There aren't many exceptions to this. Kagome (and later Sango) are usually present at Inuyasha's battles. This technically puts them in danger during every battle. If they aren't physically close to Inuyasha, but still somewhere in the vicinity (so the enemy could potentially hurt them if he dies), then the blade will still transform. Besides, look at the few battles where neither girl is present. There's always a village girl somewhere. Sometimes even being held captive.


 * As for Sesshomaru, Naraku embedded a Shikon jewel shard in that human arm. It has been shown that, before his arm regenerated, he could attach the arms of other beings to the stump without any help. The arm was meant to fool the Tessaiga into thinking Sesshomaru was a half-demon and the shard overrode the protection requirement.--Oreichalcos (talk) 01:04, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Name change proposal - Tessaiga to Tetsusaiga

 * Note, do the far reaching nature of this discussion, this topic has been moved to: Talk:InuYasha. AnmaFinotera (talk) 06:28, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Tessaiga → Tetsusaiga — All known published official English versions use "Tetsusaiga" + No known reliable source states that the name "Tetsusaiga" was made in error —WhisperToMe (talk) 05:54, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.



Discussion

 * Any additional comments:

I request to move Tessaiga to Tetsusaiga because: WhisperToMe (talk) 05:50, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * All known versions of InuYasha published in the English language by VIZ Media in the U.S., Canada, and the UK use "Tetsusaiga" - therefore the name is best known in the English-speaking world.
 * There is known no reliable source that states that the change from Tessaiga to Tetsusaiga was an error on VIZ's part. See RS - In order to make that assertion one must have a reliable source that explicitly states this. If we do not have a reliable source that states this, we cannot make that statement.