Talk:Texas Southern University

Fair use rationale for Image:Accredited seal blue 100.gif
Image:Accredited seal blue 100.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Bat infestation
Is the bat infestation worth mentioning here? --Ezeu 20:09, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Multiple ommissions in this article
This article reads more like a PR notice than an objective article:

1. I question some of the information about the age of their college of pharmacy.

2. There is virtually no mention of their history of financial scandals.

3. There is also no mention of their graduation rate of only 20%, and the fact that their law school has one of the highest bar exam failure rates in the country.

http://www.blackcollegesearch.com/texas-colleges/texas-southern-university.htm -- Actually only 15% graduation rate.

http://www.ble.state.tx.us/Stats/stats_0708.htm -- Links to TSU's bar passage rate for July 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.64.42.246 (talk) 16:35, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Cowboyathlete 22:43, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Simply cite your sources and your claims can be duly justified in the article as you write it. I am a student at this school, so simply stating this information will serve no purpose to the general population other than as slander against the university. You can also bring up all the other financial scandals at other well-known schools such as the University of Texas, etc. Just GOOGLE Don't try to bring down this fine university. Thank you. Nguerrero03 01:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * WHere is mention made of the 1967 Riots? Those riots were quite significant in the history of the school and the city. How can they be left out? Wikipedia is weak. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.220.193.142 (talk) 21:59, 29 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The Barbara Jordan-Mickey Leland School of Public Affairs snippet appears (9/20/2012) at the end of its section, instead of at the top alongside the School of Business, School of Law, etc. I suggest organizing the various colleges in the university alphabetically.  I will also add the information missing from the school above about the Urban Planning and Environmental Policy graduate programs.--Paulsuckow (talk) 14:33, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Accredited seal blue 100.gif
Image:Accredited seal blue 100.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:08, 27 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Why Does This Keep Coming Up? This is a non-issue. Image has been justified twice, yet has come up for deletion twice. Something other than a bot please explain the rationale behind this? Nguerrero03 01:04, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

clean up section tag...
Could be applied. Emesee (talk) 03:48, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

List of people
These entries need references WhisperToMe (talk) 01:48, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yolanda Adams
 * Michael Strahan
 * Kirk Whalum
 * William Craven
 * Mickey Leland
 * Barbara Jordan
 * Don Narcisse

Murals

 * Marmaduke, Lauren. "Oops! TSU To Spend $50,000 Restoring Murals It Destroyed" Houston Press. Wednesday September 15, 2010. WhisperToMe (talk) 09:37, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Spanish name
WhisperToMe (talk) 03:58, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
 * http://es.houstonisd.org/grosses/Spanish%20Student%20Handbook%202011-2012%20%207-27-2011NN.pdf uses:
 * ""Universidad del Sur de Texas"

Proposed requirement for all state universities to have closed admissions
I found this article WhisperToMe (talk) 05:37, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Ackerman, Todd. "State panel's vote a blow to college open admissions." Houston Chronicle. Saturday January 23, 1993. p. A1.

Controversy of having one of the lowest graduation rates in the country
Quotes:

- "With a mere 3 percent of Texas Southern University students graduating within four years"

- "But Glenn Lewis, the chairman of TSU’s board of regents, said that the university’s low numbers, among the nation’s worst, reflect a school willing to take chances on a high volume of students who are inadequately prepared — culturally, academically and economically — for college."

Sources:

http://www.texastribune.org/2012/03/04/tsu-works-bring-grad-rates-bottom/

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/50-state-universities-with-best-worst-grad-rates/

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/texas-southern-university-3642

2012 NCAA sanctions
An editor is edit warring to remove all mention of the sanctions imposed by the NCAA in 2012. As described by the NCAA, in 2012 when the sanctions were levied the university "either has been on probation or had violations occurring on campus, or both, for 16 of the past 20 years." Among the many problems the NCAA cited in its sanctions: "the university allowed 129 student-athletes in 13 sports during seven academic years to compete and receive financial aid and travel expenses when they were ineligible. The majority of these student-athletes had not met progress toward degree or transfer requirements. The committee noted “particularly serious violations” occurred when the former head football coach knowingly allowed a booster to recruit for the football program and the former head men’s basketball coach provided false or misleading information during the investigation."

The sanctions placed all sports teams at the university on probation for five years (2012-2017 so this is still in effect), put the football and men's basketball teams on a post-season ban and reduced their scholarships, and vacated ALL team records from 2006 until 2010. There were many other sanctions; please read the full report or any of the press articles for more details.

This was not a flash-in-the-pan incident that quickly blew over. This was not an isolated incident limited to one or two teams. This is an incident with significant historical and contemporary weight with significant ramifications for this university. I am hard-pressed to imagine how it's desirable to omit all mention of this incident from this article. ElKevbo (talk) 02:22, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * An editor is edit warring to adding all mention of the sanctions imposed by the NCAA in 2012. Plenty of universities' in the region have had NCAA penalities opposed on them but he's only adamant about Texas Southern University and other historically black colleges because he's biased.  Baylor is one example of penalties opposed on a larger Texas university with no mention of it their wiki page.  I refuse to allow this editor to continue in be biased and unfair in his editing practices.  The penalties only apply to the football team today, the article he referenced isn't the whole story and he's blowing it out of proportion.  The only penalties imposed by the NCAA are restricted scholarships for the football team because of the swift actions to rectify the situation by the athletic department.Broadmoor (talk) 02:50, 16 March 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Broadmoor (talk • contribs) 21:50, March 15, 2015‎


 * You're correct that significant, university-wide sanctions should probably be mentioned on the articles of all colleges and universities that had suffered them. However, that this information is missing from other articles is irrelevant and something that should be taken up on those articles' Talk pages.  We're focusing on this article.  That the only sanctions in place now, a few years after they were initially levied, isn't very important.  Their scale and the reasons why they were initially imposed are important and barring other material contesting them and their importance you haven't presented any compelling reason why this information shouldn't be included.
 * (Incidentally, the Baylor example is a poor one. It's silly to try to compare Baylor's apparently poor record-keeping practices regarding phone calls and text messages with the many severe problems found at Texas Southern e.g., financial aid limits exceeded, rosters not produced, coaches lying to the NCAA.  That the NCAA accepted Baylor's self-imposed punishments but completely rejected Texas Southern's is evidence of the lack of comparability of the two situations.) ElKevbo (talk) 03:02, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I brought up the Baylor issue to highlight your unfair biases in editing. If you're not going to be just and fair in your editing, you shouldn't be editing at all. Baylor's coaches had serious violations too but of course you're going to down play it to act on your biases in "good conscious".  That incident has no significant bearing on the Texas Southern today nor it's athletic program.  The athletic program was recently awarded by the NCAA for the progress and direction of the athletic program. Broadmoor (talk) 03:13, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Lay off the personal attacks.
 * The information appears to be relevant because it's an important part of the university's history. We don't ignore events simply because they happened in the past or because other articles (incorrectly) omit them.  (Incidentally, I don't see the award to which you're referring.  Is the academic progress information?  If so, that's (a) a rather weak "award" and (b) has absolutely nothing to do with what happened in the years leading up to 2012 and the issues surrounding those events e.g., lack of institutional control, exceeding financial aid limits.) ElKevbo (talk) 03:22, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────    Despite having been recently blocked for edit warring, Broadmoor continues to edit war to remove this material. Stop doing that. Work out your differences here. And do so without making personal attacks or assumptions about the motivations of other editors. ElKevbo (talk) 11:58, 8 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Editors, I've explained several times to ElKevbo on his personal talk page and other platforms on his biased editing practices, unfamiliarity with the situation, and the redundancy of the "sanctions add". Opposed to presenting credible evidence/references validating his stance like I have, he has simply threatened to block me and then plays the victim.  1) The sanctions are already added to the athletics wiki page, why does it need to be on the university's main page when the infractions are under the athletic department.  That's redundant and irresponsible editing.  2) The editor in question continues to attempt to over-exaggerate and over-expose the sanctions opposed on TSU.  And when I've cited several incidents that were more serious and larger in scope at other universities (i.e Arkansas football that are not pronounced on their pages whatsoever ... he didn't start a campaign to rectify that which highlights his biased editing. 3) There's not a practice to place NCAA sanctions on university's pages unless a sports program is terminated or temporarily suspended (i.e. SMU football) ... again for example I cite Arkansas football and Baylor athletics department.  Both were convicted of violating NCAA sanctions but yet there's no section mentioning it on their pages.  NCAA sanctions are common, they don't deserve a section on the main page nor to be mentioned twice.Broadmoor (talk) 22:41, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 3 one external links on Texas Southern University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20140116135530/http://www.tsu.edu/About/Administration/FactsataGlance2013.pdf to http://www.tsu.edu/About/Administration/FactsataGlance2013.pdf
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20140729043350/http://www.tsu.edu:80/academics/colleges__schools/College_of_Education/about_the_college.php to http://www.tsu.edu/academics/colleges__schools/College_of_Education/about_the_college.php
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20140808163129/http://www.tsu.edu/academics/colleges__schools/publicaffairs/aboutus.php to http://www.tsu.edu/academics/colleges__schools/publicaffairs/aboutus.php

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TSU graduates
add Homer Jones to TSU graduates — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.173.74.49 (talk) 18:45, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Year? Claim to fame?


 * By the by, the list of alums has, to my eye, no discernable order, except maybe the order they were added. I would suggest, maybe, chronological order, or alphabetical.  Also, possibly it would  be useful to have one list for athletics, and another for non-athletics.  How are these lists treated on other college articles?  I would not presume to make the change, as I have no ties to TS, and I have noticed that every edit inspires VAST repercussions, but guys and gals, don't you realize that each improvement potentially influences THOUSANDS of first impressions.  Many people see a mention of a subject in a newspaper, blog, book, or elsewhere, and check Wikipedia to learn more.  I must confess that, having heard of TSU, I was not aware that it was an historically black institution.  Having a balanced article, covering warts and blemishes as well as strengths, makes a discerning reader feel that they are getting the whole scoop, not just the ad, not just the hype of the promotional brochure.  Alums are proud of TSU.  Tell the whole story.  Your rep is strong, and in the long run, it will only be stronger due to honest disclosure.  If Baylor and Ark need to do the same, they need to do the same, but that is off-topic on this talkpage.


 * Also, though I know this will have little impct, "laundry lists" are discouraged on Wikipedia. The list of alums should be a short, representative list, not an exhaustive list of every grad who ever got his name in a newsletter.  Unfortunately, each reader has their favorite, and tho they might agree in theory that a shorter list has more "punch", nobody wants THEIR person omitted.  C'est la vie.  Rags (talk) 19:00, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Pictures
There are 1,000 people watching this page with no history of the university always challenging almost every single edit but add no quality content. You people watching this page should add pictures .... the page has been missing quality pictures forever! Finally make yourself useful.Broadmoor (talk) 12:29, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Please see Civility. When an edit you have made is challenged as unsourced, it is inappropriate for you to respond by telling other editors they should not be editing or challenging your edits whether or not they have contributed to the article, or "assigning" them to do different work. See also Ownership behavior. Once again,  requires the citation of a reliable source under Wikipedia's policies concerning verifiability.  You have been here long enough to understand this.   General Ization   Talk   12:37, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 2 external links on Texas Southern University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140116135530/http://www.tsu.edu/About/Administration/FactsataGlance2013.pdf to http://www.tsu.edu/About/Administration/FactsataGlance2013.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141220090656/http://www.takeback144.com/meet-gilbert/ to http://www.takeback144.com/meet-gilbert/

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External links modified
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I have just modified 5 external links on Texas Southern University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added tag to http://archive.tsu.edu/pages/2974.asp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121016045800/http://tsu.edu/academics/colleges__schools/thomas_f_freeman_Honors_College/ to http://www.tsu.edu/academics/colleges__schools/thomas_f_freeman_Honors_College
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120905024510/http://www.tsu.edu/academics/colleges__schools/publicaffairs/ to http://www.tsu.edu/academics/colleges__schools/publicaffairs/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120905024406/http://www.tsu.edu/academics/colleges__schools/publicaffairs/researchcenters.php to http://www.tsu.edu/academics/colleges__schools/publicaffairs/researchcenters.php
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111123083222/http://databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=HANKTCOR01 to http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=HANKTCOR01
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111123001105/http://databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=CELESOLI01 to http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=CELESOLI01

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TSU (Texas Southern University) motto has been Achievement in Excellence. This motto has been the driving motivation for TSU students for years. As a result of this motto the students at TSU tend to be more committed and focus in making this Motto a reality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gdozier (talk • contribs) 00:55, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Alma mater song lyrics
Can the editor(s) who believe that the lyrics of this university's alma mater be included in this article please explain what exactly readers are supposed to learn from them? Furthermore, please provide evidence that the lyrics are not copyrighted otherwise including all of them is likely a copyright violation. (And also note that the URL previously provided doesn't seem to work anymore so we also need a reliable source for this information.) ElKevbo (talk) 16:22, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Athletics logo
I have removed the athletics logo from this article. It's a copyrighted image so we can only use it under fair use which is quite limited. We already use a copyrighted image in this article to identify the university so it's really stretching fair use to try to use another copyrighted image especially when (a) the image only identifies a subset of this institution (that has its own article that can make legitimate fair use of this image) and (b) there is no critical commentary or discussion of the athletics logo indicating that it's critical for readers to see if they're to understand this subject. Just to be fair, I've opened a discussion at Media copyright questions on this specific topic to get feedback from editors who may be more familiar with fair use and how it's applied in Wikipedia.

(And Broadmoor, I didn't remove the athletics logo from the University of Houston article because it's not a copyrighted image; it's only composed of simple lettering so it is considered to be too simple to be protected by copyright and hence we don't have to worry about fair use.) ElKevbo (talk) 16:29, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I've been going back and forth with ElKevbo a thousand times on this matter and others. He is an over zealous editor that I noticed enjoys deleting quality content without any valid merit or proof to do so as in the case. The TSU athletics logo is within fair use just like the University of Houston athletics logo is and the many other university pages that have their athletics logo on their main page. No one every complained about copyright infringement, there's no compelling proof it's copyright infringement, and it belongs on the page .. it's that simple.Broadmoor (talk) 00:42, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
 * No, it's not that simple. There is a difference between non-free logos and Public Domain photos. Please read up on it and quit edit warring. The logo cannot be used in the article per WP:NFCC and WP:NFC§17. The article it is allowed in is Texas Southern Tigers. File:Houston Cougars logo.svg, fails originality, making it in the Public Domain since it is too simple and just letters and/or shapes. Since the UH logo is in the Public Domain, it is allowed in the University of Houston article.  Corky  00:47, 5 March 2018 (UTC)