Talk:Textured vegetable protein/Archive 1

Gluten
Why the See Also to gluten? Gluten is a byproduct of wheat flour prouction which is used to make a meat substitute called seitan. Textured vegetable protein is intentionally made out of extracted proteins from varied vegetables, mostly brown rice and soybeans. Although they are both meat substitutes, they have no connection. Mabye See Also's for vegan/vegetarian, mock-meat, or meat substitute? DryGrain 08:34, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

As a vegeterian, I find the fact that they are both meat substitutes to be more than enough of a reason to put in See Also. Many of the visitors to this article will be interested in meat substiutes.

I agree that there needs to be a stated reason for the "See Also." I came to the TVP article from the Gluten article while researching a gluten-free diet, so I inferred there may be gluten in TVP. The article of course cleared that up, but the confusing re-direction remains.

How about one to Soylent Green too? ;) (sorry, just kidding, everybody needs a laugh now and then...)Hatchetfish 03:11, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

"Although they are both meat substitutes, they have no connection." Obviously, they are related -- you just pointed out how! "See also" is for things with an interesting relationship/context. They don't have to be the same. They could be "compare and contrast" opposites! Please keep the Gluten link. 69.87.193.21 18:14, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

TVP hard on digestive system?
i've always heard that TVP is hard to digest and causes lots of gas - among other problems. can anyone verify this and/or add some relevant info to the article?

In general, major diet changes may take some time to adjust to. 69.87.193.21 18:14, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

TVP easy to digest!
I eat a LOT of TVP; I do not have more than the normal amount of gas, and I did not go through an adjustment period either, despite rather abruptly starting to eat a lot of it. I know that the process of making TVP removes essentially ALL of the indigestible sugars that are what make soy beans so bad, so I would not expect there to be a problem. I certainly have not had any problem whatsoever.

TVP in Prison food
I put in a couple of short sentences regarding TVP use in prison meals. I have no citation, except that I work in a prison, and it's a well-known fact, or rather, it's standard operating proceedure. The points I mentioned (low cost, low fat, high protien, long unrefridgerated shelf life, bulk avainability) come straight from the food service manager at my facility. I'm trying to find WRITTEN verification, with little luck. 146.63.253.183 19:23, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I reworded and took out the bit that fat consumption should be 50% because that is nutritionally inaccurate, or at very best highly debatable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.200.118.120 (talk) 20:34, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

TVP and msg
TVP contains msg (monosodium glutamate) a know cancer causer and destroyer of brain neurons. It crosses the blood brain barrier to cause head aches in sensitive individuals and hyper stimulates brain nerves to damage them. Many vegetarians avoid all textured type proteins. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.122.82.156 (talk) 17:28, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually there is little evidence monosodium glutamate is harmful, and glutamate occurs naturally in many foods, including more or less all types soya beans and soya bean derived foods Nil Einne (talk) 08:21, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I was just wondering about this. The article says the processing changes the structure of the protein -- into what? High heat can often make something that was once healthy unhealthy to consume. Has anyone studied what TVP actually is, physically and chemically, after it comes out of the processor? 67.167.164.98 (talk) 02:27, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

TVP article reads like FUD
This article sure does smell like it was made by the soybean association. No mention of any downsides - the link to the American Soybean Association at the bottom...I smell a rat here. What about that ridiculous unsigned comment above 'TVP easy to digest!' No one writes like that...except maybe a trade association, anyone? Got the right pockets fleeced in DC? THIS ARTICLE NEEDS TO BE TAGGED AND FIXED IMMEDIATELY. 76.114.133.83 (talk) 12:58, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I would agree with that, this article reads like an advert for the stuff. Processed junk is processed junk, no matter how many synthetic vitamins you add to it to make it seem "nutritious". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.206.46.9 (talk) 22:49, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Soy Intolerance.

No mention is made of Soy Intolerance. Depending on method of preparation, more or less of the "problematic" materials may remain. 60.242.247.177 (talk) 12:02, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Keep an Eye out for these IP addresses
According to Wikiscanner, the American Soybean Association's IP address range is: 66.201.71.160-191

Also in Wikiscanner, this article was created by 12.160.113.112 in Bentonville, AR. Bentonville, home to WalMart, is also home to many suppliers who try to influence the retail giant. It would not at all surprise me if someone associated with the soybean industry, located there, created this article with that intent. 76.114.133.83 (talk) 13:10, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Trademarks
The article currently states in the paragraph discussing patents & trademarks:
 * All of these patents have expired or have been held inapplicable to current use.

While the patents may have expired, in my understanding, the trademarks TVP & TSP are still valid. Unless someone can cite evidence to the contrary, I believe this should be mentioned in the article. As it is now, the text may lead one to believe that the trademarks are no longer valid. Dforest (talk) 23:25, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Soy contains harmful oestrogens
We have a big problem, both in the environments that receive our effluent, and on ourselves. Oestrogens (female hormones) are present in our effluent in a proportion that is too high to merely be from contraceptive pills. It appears that oestrogens have crept into our diet, and may be responsible for the low sperm count in younger men and earlier sexual maturity of girls. Soy contains substances that mimic oestrogens and may be responsible.

The natural soy product is lower in oestrogens than todays crops that have been selected for resistence to insect damage. Today's crop is resistent becasue it has higher levels of oestrogen that may interfear with insect breeding.

Arguably, soy in its current form should be banned, or at least contain a health warning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.67.149.60 (talk) 20:49, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Source? --Kaminix (talk) 13:55, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

being vegan with celiac disease
Ive been vegan for eight months now. I found out in January that i have celiac disease and lactose intolerance. My doctor said I would have to go back to eating meat immediately, in order to get enough protein in my diet. I don't want to go back to eating the flesh of dead animals. Can you help me find any alternatives? Im suppose to be seeing a nutritionist very soon, but they always side with the doctor. My family was lac-to-ovo-vegetarian most of my life. I ate meat at age 23. I became very ill. Ive flirted back and forth between lac-to-ovo and vegan and an occasional piece of meat(i never cook it in my home, my husband is vegetarian,he has not eaten meat or fish in over sixteen years)My husband is very agreeable and so is my handicap daughter who lives with me.(she has autism) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.61.167.45 (talk) 19:21, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

If the only problem is protein, then you should be able to get plenty with beans and bean products (tofu, TVP, soymilk). Protein is not difficult to get in reasonable amounts with a vegetarian diet (and you could easily get excessive amounts if you ate a lot of tofu or TVP). Make sure that protein isn't the only problem. If it really is the only problem and your doctor insists that you can't get protein without meat, then I'd find a new doctor. Korin43 (talk) 05:06, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Removed
Removed the strangely placed line: "Had the raw material been high in carbohydrates, extrusion cooking could have produced puffed corn curls or puffed wheat." Soy flour could not produce puffed corn curls or puffed wheat. Obviously wheat or corn would be needed for those.--71.201.136.52 (talk) 20:53, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

POV
The text "High quality TVP can be mixed with ground meat to a ratio of up to 1:3 (rehydrated TVP to meat) without reducing the quality of the final product" is rather POV. → Aza Toth 17:33, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * That's sourced to the highly reliable CRC Press. What do you think is POV about it, and what do you think could be used to improve the wording?  The book is pretty explicit on this point, though it looks like the google books preview has vanished.  WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/complex 15:09, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

It should be obvious that when the word "quality" is used, without an objective measurement of quality as it pertains to a specific recipe, it cannot be established as objective fact in this context and should not be represented as more than a substitution ratio threshold that some people subjectively find to be the upper limit of quality degradation that they will accept. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.128.86.122 (talk) 11:21, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Removed carcinogen reference
Hi - I don't want to step on anyone's toes but there was an oddly placed apparent claim that TVP is carcinogenic. I don't know if TVP or soy is carcinogenic, but I do know it simply didn't make linguistic sense where it was. If there is a controversy about TVP's carcinogenicity then it should receive its own paragraph or subsection, not be a paranthetical crammed into the middle of everything else. 67.175.146.68 (talk) 22:36, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Toxic dose
As of March 12 2019, under the Manufacturing Process section, the article states "one would have to consume around 250 grams of TVP per kilogram of body weight to reach a toxic dose".

This number (250 g/kg) was initially 2.5 metric tons per kg, added to the article on 2014-08-10 by 2601:1:9600:4dc:fc2c:614:5d3d:ac1f with no comment.

On 2015-10-10, 197.45.126.122 changed this value to 250 kg/kg, with the comment "Fix number: if 20 ppm in TVP, then only 0.02 gm of hexane per kg TVP, that means you need 5/0.02 kg TVP to get 5 gm of hexane.".

On 2019-01-19, Quixote9 changed the value to 250 g/kg, with the comment "corrected typo: 250 kilograms of TVP per kilogram of body weight should be 250 grams of TVP per kilogram of body weight".

The Slate article mentions an article about the toxicity of hexane in rats, but does not directly link to it. I believe it can be found here: TOXICOLOGICAL PROFILE FOR n-HEXANE. The relevant parts:
 * Krasavage et al. (1980)
 * Groups of 5 male rats received these doses, 5 days per week, for 90 days:
 * 570 mg/kg n-hexane
 * 1140 mg/kg n-hexane
 * 1980 mg/kg n-hexane
 * 4000 mg/kg practical grade hexane
 * "The authors observed the clinical manifestation of hind-limb paralysis from exposure to the following chemicals [...] high dose n-hexane (3/5). Practical grade hexane and the lower doses of n-hexane did not produce hind-limb paralysis during the 90- day testing period."
 * "All chemicals except 570 and 1140 mg/kg n-hexane produced giant axonal swelling, adaxonal myelin infolding, and paranodal myelin retraction"

This approximately matches up with the claim in the Slate article "Scientists fed about 500 mg of hexane to lab rats for 90 days and found no adverse effects". Using this number (500 mg/kg) as a safe dose, a 50 kg person would have to eat 25g of hexane per day. Per the Cornucopia report (TVP contains 20 ppm hexane), that would be 1,250 kg of TVP per kg of body weight (to achieve 500 mg/kg hexane).

I am updating the article to reflect this, but am also adding a citation-needed tag, since this data seem crappy.

drt1245 (talk) 20:26, 12 March 2019 (UTC)