Talk:The 50th Reunion Tour

Setlist
I've removed the setlist section as not one of the songs listed was anything like confirmed in the article sourced. Andrew G. Doe (talk) 22:33, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

I changed the songs performed/setlist section because it was pointless to have just the setlist from the first show because since then the songs have been switched around, others added/dropped and at a few performaces the setlists have been shorter than others due to the type of show they were performing at.Jason1978 (talk) 01:43, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

I think it's worse then it was! You changed it because of a post from before the tour even started! There was a speculated setlist before the tour even started. Thats where the original post comes from! From experience, people don't care what album the song is on, more then where it would approximately fit in the setlist. If we say this is the setlist as of show x and certain songs move around and not always performed, then we've covered our bases. I've looked through 6 setlists and they are all relatively close with 2 identical.Gsgeek540 (talk) 19:02, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Post before the tour started? I never saw a specualted setlist. I get my info from the band's message board as fans post the setlists after each show. I also noticed the links posted by someone else confirming the setlist were from setlist.com, which is sometimes as unreliable as wikipedia can be because it's updated by anyone and changed can be made by anyone. So far the setlists have been pretty similar with some songs being altered around but just showing the show's first setlist on here is misleading because it's pretty much saying this is the show your will get, this order. This Whole World appeared at the first show, dropped for a few and returned. I Just Wasn't Made for These Times made it's debut at the last show and I expect them to continue to add other songs as they get more comfortable with the tour and each other.

As for adding the associated albums...I have always done it on every tour page I updated/created/edited from Springsteen to the Chili Peppers and it makes it much more helpful for casual fans of the artist to find the songs on the albums they appeared on and also gives a good indication of what albums/eras the artist is avoiding/not performing.

Oh and one other thing...you mentioned in one of your changes that Wilson didn't just show up when he wanted to, he appeared at select shows. Wilson often just appeared when he wanted to on tours, studio sessions, music videos, single covers etc sometimes without the public knowing and the band knowing too long beforehand. He quit touring with the group in 1965 but would just randomly appear throughout the years even on projects he had zero involvement with (like promotion of Kokomo or the AWFUL Summer In Paradise album). He would just randomly join the band when he felt up to it. You never knew when he would appear or decide to cancel a appearence or even interview. I know there has been some concern from fans if Wilson will make it through the whole tour. At least I hope he makes it to their June show in Maryland. Jason1978 (talk) 01:58, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

The setlist comment from April 4th was based off of this post http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Beach_Boys_50th_Anniversary_Reunion_Tour&diff=485560968&oldid=485204722 It was pure speculation given that the tour had not even started yet. It had to get removed on those grounds. In regards to your comment about setlist.com comparing to Wikipedia being "unreliable", i will agree there is no follow up on accuracy on setlist.com but theres no follow-up on message boards either. As per wikipedia being unreliable, that's uncalled for. If someone posts something with out an explanation or without a source, the post is considered vandalism and reverted back to the previous post and the poster is reported for vandalism; and sometimes have their IP address blocked from posting. If that's not insurance for authenticity then I don't know what is. The only reason that the first shows set list had been updated was because it was the only official source, from the band, of a set list we have had. All others were from fan sites, message boards and setlist.com but as you alluded to, have no guarantee of it's accuracy. Like we learned during the supporting musicians debate, we could play he say/she say all we want but unless its official, who are we? Just fans. As for Brian Wilson, your correct, he did have a drug problem and i do resent my statement. I still do not believe that random is the appropriate word. I will continue to suggest "select shows" as has been changed throughout already. In regards to his continuation on this tour, the only shows he has cancelled of any in the last 3 years of touring was his leg in Europe last year that he postponed before tickets went on sale so he could go back in the recording studio. Gsgeek540 (talk) 17:22, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't consider Wikipedia unreliable but I know alot of people do. I have been the main editor/caretaker of the Red Hot Chili Peppers articles for a while, constantly keeping them updated and free of vandalism. I have spent tons of hours cleaning up their article and related articles so whenever I encounter a fan saying well I heard it on wikipedia but you can't trust them I always correct them because in the time using this site and editing stuff, I have seen how hardcore everyone is to keep things 100% accurate. Sure something might slip through the cracks every now and then and someone might see it before it's removed but this site is devoted to keeping things accurate and well maintained to the point where even I have gotten into agruments over actual facts over a band I have been obsessed with for over 20 years but unable to get the correct links to back it up. Wikipedia just gets a bad rap because anyone can edit it, which is true but most people don't know the truth behind the site and the dedication some have to keeping it updated.

Oh and reading your profile I got a good laugh out of being introduced to the Beach Boys through Full House, which I just saw for like the hundreth time the other daya. What a cheesy appearence (not as awful as the Baywatch one though) and another example of Brian Wilson just randomly appearing with them. They show the performance footage at the end with Brian playing keyboards/singing Kokomo, a song he didn't sing/writer/perform on and then he just walks off stage for the remainder of the t.v. show/performance footage. Jason1978 (talk) 04:11, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

There was that one, the telethon where Mike Love appears and plays Be true to your school...what other ones....oh Forever! of course! Jesse's wedding. There were a couple more times in the later seasons that they were jamming in the basement studio. But your right. It was messed up. I also didn't know that Gary Griffin who was in Jesse and the rippers on the show was actually associated with The Beach Boys and such acts in real life. Quite ironic how seeing them on TV 10, 15 years ago would have the impact it has today. July 11th will be the 12 time i've seen them.Gsgeek540 (talk) 20:47, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Yeah John Stamos also made a music video for Forever on Full House and then they did the wedding episode at Disney World where he performed it (sorta sad I know all this). Then of course he re-recorded Forever for the awful BB Summer in Paradise album. Stamos actually wasn't that bad on the song but it's doesn't top the origninal, which is a top 10 BB song for me. I have yet to see them and pretty much refused to with Mike Love leading the band. I don't care for the guy as a person but i'm fine with his songs but he's no Brian Wilson. I actually think Love's most underrated song is Big Sur on the Holland album. One of the best songs he ever wrote. I always held out though for Brian hoping someday he would return so in June it will be my first BB show.

Speaking of Brian...I just read a really interesting article with Love and Wilson from this week where they are talking about Glenn Campbell having Alzheimer's disease and Brian asks the interviwer what alzheimers is. Pretty amazing however could be those around him try and keep him from these terrible diseases because he gets so paranoid about everything and he's known to forget some stuff due to his past problems so I guess they wouldn't want him flipping out. Jason1978 (talk) 06:18, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Lol! There is one there from Good Morning America and they are talking about losing the good vibrations grammy to whoever and Brian is completely oblivious to anything Gsgeek540 (talk) 04:54, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

They haven't played Ballad of Ole Betsy yet live. They are doing special soundcheck shows for fans who pay extra which also includes meeting the band. Betsy was performed during one of soundchecks but hasn't made it to the official setlist yet which I why I think it should be noted they are not doing it live yet. Also from what I understand, Brian didn't sing lead on it either, which is a shame. I know backing musician Jeff Foskett prodivdes the high notes/harmonies Brian can no longer hit but i'm not a fan of a non-Beach Boy singing lead. I know he sings lead on Dont Worry Baby and overhshadows everyone on Surfer Girl and Al on Wouldn't It Be Nice which again, Brian I wish sang because he always performed it at solo shows.

btw if you haven't seen the Charlie Rose interview from this past week it's worth looking for. Brian is very happy and talkitive. Seems very excited about the reunion. David Marks also gets to take alot, which is nice. That guy has to be having the time of his life. I also read at their most recent show Brian was very talkitive during the show even introducing California Girls as a good song but not as geat as Good Vibrations. Mike also introduced Brian once and Brian let out a huge sneeze which was caught on the big screen. Jason1978 (talk) 03:51, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Saw them finally last night in Maryland. Simply AMAZING! 48 songs and almost 3 hours! Jason1978 (talk) 09:27, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

The Stamos debate
A couple users have brought up the John Stamos debate on this and The Beach Boys lineups with the question of "should he be listed as an additional musician?" I honestly have fought to keep him on both pages because he and the band have both indicated that he will be apart of the touring band at select shows, and all sources lead to that. There is no question about the fact that he has performed with the band thus far. However, the rumor mill is going around and around saying "that was his only show" or "only New York" or only here or there. Unfortunately, the same people with those rumors are unable to provide a valid source and will just remove him because they "heard it" somewhere and remove the current source up there. I think until there is a source saying otherwise, Stamos should remain on both pages as an additional musician. If a source can not be found, and, at the end of the tour, he only does perform the one show, we can note that appropriately on both pages but until then, the sources speak for themselves.

I did update a source on one of the pages from Stamos performing Forever to the source of him actually saying he will be involved in the tour. Like i said, the question now isn't did he perform but rather will he have involvement and this source better fits the debate, with all do respect.

With that being said, any unsourced removals of Stamos from either page will be reverted back and directed to the talk page of each respective page, as per Compromise and be debated there.

Cheers, Gsgeek540 (talk) 17:05, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

I would be inclined to list Stamos under "guests at selected shows" along with the likes of Dean Torrence, He's not doing anything like the whole tour, and it's an open secret that some of the real supporting band dislike him intensely. Andrew G. Doe (talk) 06:53, 17 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with that kind of category as well. The problem that there is no current source that cancels out the current source about Stamos' involvement. One could assume and note it by assumption but if we did, wikipedia would be a mess. Better keep it authentic and hopefully someone will find a valid, up to date source at which time, said category would see Stamos placed in. Gsgeek540 (talk) 00:26, 18 June 2012 (UTC)


 * As I said in the other article (Beach Boys lineups) nothing needs to "cancel out" the previous statements about Stamos, but the text should not use the existing cites to suggest a greater involvement than he has actually had. The article should state only that Stamos (or "sources") said he would be involved, and go on to state that he appeared with the band in NYC & New Orleans, and leave it at that.  He shouldn't be listed in the band lineup section as he is not and has not been a part of the backing band and is making no ongoing appearances with the band, and it would be misleading to suggest that he is.  It was never confirmed or citeable that he was going to be a backing band member to begin with, but seems to have been listed that way initially simply because he had been listed that way for prior tours where he did act in that capacity.  70.182.195.99 (talk) 19:53, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The Article should say ? You mean Stamos should say.....There is more then an article there! Did you even watch the video attached to the article?!? There is a video where it says clearly out of his mouth "i will be apart of the show". He also indicates "I was intending of having an audience type of role, just introducing them on stage or something but the band approached me and insisted I be apart of the show". This is why we need something to cancel out that statement. It's still a viable statement and could still be very true. Like this user said, "the tours half over" there's still have the tour left. Find a source as prove he is not playing anymore shows. I have found and posted a source that does...Gsgeek540 (talk) 20:03, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't see any conflict there. The role he was describing is more or less the role he had in the shows where he appeared.   It's not necessary for the article to minimize his involvement, or in any way state that he is off the tour or that he only appeared at three specific shows, or that he's no longer appearing - much of that is not strictly true and none of that should be in the article.  It should just not overtly state that Stamos IS on the tour or is appearing on an ongoing basis, because that is both untrue and not derivable from his pre-tour statements.  It's enough to note that a) he said he would appear and b) he did appear, and slant it no differently or further than that.  70.182.195.99 (talk) 20:17, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Hense is why we have Stamos listed as a supporting musican at select shows as has been the case in previous years. There is also a source linked to the beach boys 50th anniversary facebook page. Might i direct you to a February 14th posting that states "Politely absent from the grammy reunion, John Stamos will be touring with the boys for the entire summer after all he has been playing with them for over 25 years... yes it's been that long!" Well the last time i looked at a calendar, the first day of summer isn't until Wednesday...
 * What i will suggest is this, create a "special guest" category that Andrew G. Doe suggested; to appropriately place Dean Torrence, California Saga and Stamos in. If he does continue to play shows however on a part time basis, kind of like he has the last 10 summers, he will be moved back into the supporting musician category where he currently sits from previous tours. Fair Compromise?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gsgeek540 (talk • contribs) 20:27, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Absolutely. Thanks for working this through.  If you want to cite those special appearances and where they occurred - the two shows Stamos appeared at were cited in my changes to the 'lineups' article.  The Cal Saga & Dean Torrance appearances have been written up in the press as well.  70.182.195.99 (talk) 20:32, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Settled done. Anyone else we can think of and we'll get that squared away no problem at all. I don't think we have to be too too specific about it though. I think just who and what they did. If we start putting in dates, locations and specifics, people will start getting carried away with it

If a civil compromise cannot be reached within 7 days, an arbitration request will be made as per Arbitration/Policy. Gsgeek540 (talk) 20:12, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Setlist Category
I think this setlist category and all these "special notations" is starting to get ridiculous! I think these notations need to be for things that are out of the ordinary for the band. So Lets go down the list... A. Is pretty justified. Some inconsistencies of lead vocalist B, C, F. All justified. Backing members performing lead vocals D, H. Dead members recordings of lead vocals...justified again G. Joined by special guests for that song; only time performed, certainly justified. L. Which was removed by user on previous edit for some unjustified reason...Performed in a soundcheck performance for certain VIP Nation ticket package holders...justified to be posted as this is not a normal thing for most bands Then we start getting a little carried away with this.... I. Marks plays lead guitar on a song. He what? Stop the presses?!? J. Marks on lead vocals. Really? A band member listed as a vocalist sings?!? K. Mike love on lead vocals. Really? The Lead vocalist on 80% of the set sings another song?!? This is unheard of! Its absolutely ridiculous and carried away! They are already listed as main band members and what they do on stage is clearly indicated. David marks is listed as "vocals, guitar" and mike love as "lead vocals..". I get the fact that Getcha Back was originally a Mike Love song but Wouldn't It be Nice wasn't originally an Al Jardine Song, Do you wanna dance wasn't originally a David Marks song, Sail on Sailor wasn't originally a Brian Wilson song so why is this one being highlighted? Why do we need to make special notations for stuff they normally do on stage and are listed as doing on this page? Like whats next? We start saying Mike D'Amico is on drums for the 3 songs he's on drums for, Probyn Gregory is on Bass for the 3 songs he's on bass for, John Cowsill disappears off stage for the 3 songs he doesn't play drums for, Brian Wilson on Bass for the songs he plays bass for. Jeff Foskett sang Brian Wilson's falsettos on songs x, y and z. Oh Oh Mike Love plays tambourine in song m and plays jingle bells on song n. Like the list goes on and on and I think we need to put a stop to it now!

The fact that the original reverts were undone with out an edit summary is gutless. The appropriate thing to do would have been to do what I am doing now. Stepping up and standing up for my position on Wikipedia and trying to find a solution that works for everyone. As I made public at the beginning of this tour, I was 100% against the way the setlist was being listed on the site but we talked about it and make it work.

For those not familiar with the process, as per WP:Compromise I have requested a debate, via this talk page, on a compromise to this issue. As per the same clause, any reverts to the debated issue will be reverted and reported as vandalism. If a compromise cannot be reached within 7 days as per the standard listed on page, then a request for arbitration, as per WP:Arbitration, will be filed. Gsgeek540 (talk) 06:34, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I think it's notable to list the backing members who are taking over lead vocals because you have Beach Boys songs not even being sung by the band so it's pretty surprising attending a show and seeing someone else sing (and for some fans a bit of a problem too). The backing musicians do much more than just back the group. Scott Totten is the musicial director of the band I just think it's worth mentioning that Jeff Foskett, a non-BB is singing lead vocals on classic BB songs. Darian Sahanaja is doing Darlin', a song never performed live before to my knowledge by anyone but Carl (there was specualtion of who would perform the song because Carl's singing is so hard to pull off and none of the BB had that range anymore). The band makes is a point to highlight the backing members during the shows when they take over lead vocals.

As for David Marks...the reason I posted his lead vocal credits is due to the fact he never sang lead before and was just their rhythm guitarist/backing vocals. During his original tenure he had one co-singing credit to his name, Summertime Blues w/ Carl on their debut album so it's pretty noteworthy to mention he's actually taking lead vocals on a few songs and not just up there playing guitar, backing vocals. Maybe a solution is to list with the band lineup the songs the backing musicians are doing? It's like 3-4 songs so far. It's not like going overboard and listing who is playing bass on this song or guitar on this song.

BTW Al has been singing Wouldn't It Be Nice since they first started playing it live. He, along with Carl, took over many of Brian's parts when Brian stopped touring so that's why that's not noted. Of course Carl and Dennis' vocals are provided by others but I thought it was only worth mentioning if it was by someone who wasn't a member of the group or never sang, like Marks (Brian btw is singing Do You Wanna Dance, a song Dennis sang).

I also think somewhere in the article something should be written about the backing band (and at one point I believe there was until it was removed). Yes their names are listed but it doesn't mention anywhere how the backing band is made up of Brian and Mike's touring and studio bands, the role someone like Jeff Foskett, who has been with the band off and on for 32 years, plays a major role in the band especially with Brian's preperation. Jason1978 (talk) 04:05, 28 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I have no problem at all with back up musicians (non beach boys) being "noted" as lead vocalists on a certain songs. As i stated at the beginning of all this, things "out of the ordinary" should be listed. A non Beach Boy singing a non Beach Boy song is out of the ordinary. I am fine, and have always been fine, as posted above, with leaving the backing musicians how they are. And for the record, John Cowsill used to perform Darlin' with the Love/Johnston Beach Boys
 * As for Marks, I still have issues with it. Ultimately, he is listed on albums he appeared on as a vocalist and is listed in all public releases for this tour as a vocalist. Whether that be lead vocals or backing vocals, he's still a vocalist and still a beach boy. He has sang on the few tours he was on previous to this. Most notably 1999, after Jardine left, where he had at least 4 songs lead. I strongly believe it does not need to be listed, nor do I believe the fact he plays guitar during pet sounds is notable. I understand the fact that he is center stage but he is center stage for a bunch of his solos. This solo just happens to be 2 minutes long.
 * As for Al and Wouldn't it be nice, noted but it's going along the same lines. Love hasn't sang Getcha back since atleast '07. I think if ones mentioned, mention them all. Otherwise, mention none.
 * And as for the backing band, the musicians and Personnel categories really need to be combined into 1. Start with a spiel about who the beach boys are, who the backing musicians are, list them off.

Gsgeek540 (talk) 16:11, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I gotta admit, the way that Jason1978 cleaned up that setlist category listing everything in a paragraph as opposed to with the song actually isn't that bad. I was hesitant at first but after reading it a few times, it gets the point across really efficiently. One thing I will mention and will let said user investigate and correct accordingly is on "why do fools fall in love", im pretty sure the falsettos (lead vocals) are a duet between Foskett, as listed, and Scott Totten. At my concert in Calgary, there camera was back and fourth between the 2 of them on lead. I'll see if i can find a video bootleg that indicates the same as well but even an audio one i'm pretty sure you can hear both voices. Other then that, kick ass job i must say. Gsgeek540 (talk) 22:17, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Nicky Walusko
Anyone know what happened to Nicky Walusko? Wasn't in Calgary and hasn't toured since mid june as far as i recall.... Gsgeek540 (talk) 06:32, 12 July 2012 (UTC)


 * He's been ill, and had treatment. Andrew G. Doe (talk) 15:53, 26 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Shitttt! Well do appreciate the update and hope to see him back soonGsgeek540 (talk) 17:02, 26 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I have read a couple of the forums that have been used to source the setlists on this page. Again, a thanks to Andrew G. Doe for clarifying that. I would like to suggest that Walusko stay listed on page as he did tour significantly and is officially listed as a musician. There is no clarification if he will be returning but i think those are 2 significant reasons to keep him on page. Opinions? Gsgeek540 (talk) 22:13, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Clapping??? An Instrument???
Is clapping an instrument? Specifically with Bruce Johnston. An IP user adds clapping and insists on reverting when i remove. Like i told him "If we list him as clapping, what's next? "walking around stage", "flirting with girls in audience", "signing autographs on stage"" It's kind of ridiculous! Gsgeek540 (talk) 22:13, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Name
I'm pretty sure the name of this tour wasn't "The 50th Reunion Tour" but rather "Celebration" something or other. "50th Celebration Tour"? "50th Anniversary Celebration"? If the live album was called "The 50th Anniversary Tour" then that's probably the official name.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 14:43, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

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