Talk:The Allman Brothers Band/Archive 1

Thank you
Thank you Wikipedia. I write to add to the excellent Allman Brothers Band article. Until reading it, I was never aware of the intimate relationship between the Allman Brothers and Sea Level. I've been reveling in the innovative album “Cats on the Coast” since high school. Wore out the vinyl and happily purchased the digitally remastered CD. Any Allman Brothers fan who also enjoys contemporary jazz (not that ‘smooth jazz’ packaged pabulum) will find “Cats on the Coast” to be an essential addition to their collection. If you find a copy – buy it! 17:02, 1 June 2003 12.237.98.92

Duane and Berry
The story that Duane and Berry died at the same corner is widespread. It is also wrong. According to the official Allman Brothers site, under "People/Chronology of the Allman Brothers Band", Berry Oakley's motorcycle accident was "only blocks from where Duane's happened". I'll put the page back the way it was, along with a note that the common story is wrong. Noel 23:10, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * Thanks for straightening that out, Noel, I've been wrong for years. - Hephaestos 23:15, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * No problem. I had the same misapprehension for years too! FWIW, apparently Duane's collision was at the intersection of Hillcrest and Bartlett (the Allman Bros site confirms that), and Berry's was "near the intersection of Napier Avenue near Inverness Street".
 * It turns out the story about it being a peach truck is wrong too. I guess I should put a note about that in here too? Noel 23:24, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * It probably should all go in, if only to dispel rumor; I don't think it should have a high priority in the article but I'm at a loss at the moment as to how to tone that part down a bit.
 * I lived in Macon for five years and thought at least the locals would have the story straight, but I guess not. *grin*  Two separate people pointed out Forsyth and Zebulon to me as the place where both were killed (maybe to scare me, as I drove through there every day on the way to work). - Hephaestos 23:28, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)


 * I think I know how to handle the EaP rumor thing without clogging up the ABB page. Take a look in a few minutes.... Noel 00:30, 23 Aug 2003 (UTC)


 * Good idea, thanks again :) - Hephaestos 01:35, 23 Aug 2003 (UTC)

notability of Georgia Allman Brothers Band Association?
A user has been edit-warring for deleting this entry:


 * GABBA (Georgia Allman Brothers Band Association), a U.S. non-profit organisation dedicated to preserve the history of the The Allman Brothers Band

from the disambiguation page Gabba, arguing that it's not notable enough to ever have a Wikipedia article, and thus to be listed as a redlink on a dab page.

You can provide information (positive or negative) about it at the discussion page Talk:Gabba so as to help sort it out.

Thanks,

-- 62.147.112.36 14:37, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Jimmy Carter
Could someone add some information about the band's manager, Phil Walden (who also ran Capricorn Records and had previously managed Otis Redding) as well as his connections to Jimmy Carter and the failing financial fortunes of the band in the late 1970s? I believe it was a fairly major issue in their personal and artistic lives. Thanks! 11:43, October 25, 2006 137.73.174.114

Members List
Could someone help in fixing the members section of the article. It has been tagged as "require restructuring" since November of this year. 12:20, December 14, 2006 202.61.69.83

I went and re did the formatting. I added sub headings fort each instrument and listed band members in chronological order. My only real hiccup was for Gregg, as whoever did the original list i assumed put the instruments in order of how much they were used by the player. And Gregg had vocals listed for his first thing and guitar as his last but since i didn't want to do a redundant vocal section i just listed him under Guitar. DyloniusFunk 18:58, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I moved Gregg Allman to the piano/keyboard subsection of the members list. While he does play guitar, he is primarily known for his singing and organ play in ABB. KitHutch 19:28, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks to the person who fixed the Lineup section by year. 13:28, January 5, 2007 203.111.236.48

Added a "non-official/Live/Studio" members section203.111.236.48 11:58, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Article about the music
Anyone here interested in helping to add an article about the allman's music (Influence, styles, etc.)? Since the ABB covers many genres of music, this would be helpful. 121.1.51.190 15:33, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Lead guitar
Who became lead guitarist after Duane died? Was it Dicky Betts, or somebody else? Cubs Fan 01:23, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Dickey Betts was one of two lead guitarists in the Duane era. After Duane died, he was the only lead guitarist.  Since their reformation in 1989, they have had Dickey Betts, Warren Haynes, Derek Trucks, Jimmy Herring, and Jack Pearson on lead guitar, as well as other guests who substituted for Betts in the second half of the 1993 summer tour. KitHutch 20:35, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Wrong. Since their reunion in 1978 Dan Toler was lead guitar with Dickey Betts until the group disband in 1982. Toler appears on the albums "Enlightened Rogues" (1979), "Reach for the Sky" (1980) and "Brothers of the Road" (1981). Since 1989 is like KitHutch wrote. Marcelo Salusky - macred1975@hotmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.19.56.232 (talk) 02:42, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Know the Song?
I have a song on my iTunes just called "Blues Jam". It's 11:22 long and was recorded on 12/31/73. Can any Allman Brothers Band fans name it? --In Defense of the Artist 23:43, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Any lyrics?121.1.51.190 11:15, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Genre
Can we agree on a definite list of genres for the band? I mean, are they really that much Jazz Fusion and psychedelic rock?Silas619 11:21, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
 * At AllMusic.com the bio reads that the first album was "a solid blues-rock album" and that they are remarkably consistant changing only gradually in 30 years and now "they sound more country than they did in their early days." Country... now aren't we calling that "roots rock" ...but not to be confused with Bob Marley's "roots rock." The article leads with "The band's mix of blues, country, jazz, and even classical influences, and their powerful, extended on-stage jamming altered the standards of concert performance..." Good luck securing genre these days, especially now that we have jamband. I suspect it is the jambanders that will want "jazz fusion" and "psychedelic rock" to stick. Even "jamband" is in question for the Allman Brothers as Butch Trucks has quoted Greg Allman as recently as 2003 in saying that rather than being a jamband, the Allman Brothers "are a band that jams." Butch Trucks is a self-described jambander however. The band themselves do not agree on genre. - Steve3849 talk 12:40, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I am somewhat skeptical of describing the band as "psychedelic rock". However, I think that many of the songs are undeniably driven by elements of jazz, and "jazz fusion" is appropriate as one of many of The Allman Brothers Band's most prominent genres of music- especially in their earlier days before Duane's death. These are a few of the songs which I believe exemplify Jazz Fusion: "In Memory of Elizabeth Reed," "Les Brers in A Minor," "Mountain Jam," "Revival," "Whipping Post (opens in 11/8 time)," "Little Martha," and "Dreams". Many of these songs use complex time signatures as well as Jazz-like song structures and extensive use of blue notes and swung notes. -AllmanvishnuO 00:51, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Southern Rock and Blues are a given, as these are the band's roots. Psychedelic is right out. Jazz Fusion is questionable--probably legitimate but still unnecessary. The real question is whether or not they are a jamband. The band has denied the label, but that doesn't mean they aren't as far as Wikipedia is concerned (consider, the Grateful Dead consider Robert Hunter a member of the Band, but Wikipedia doesn't). As a genre, jam bands do not have much common ground other than live musical exploration. The jamband scene seems to be a modern phenomenon, beginning more or less with Phish. Bands such as the Dead, Cream, and Zeppelin, while precursors to and influences on the jam scene, are not usually considered jambands. The Allman Brothers, however, still record and tour. Additionally, their live shows have become even more eclectic and, if you will, "jammy" in the past decade. As a band in the "jam band era" whose shows feature extensive exploratory jams (not to mention that they share a large portion of their fanbase with other jam bands), it seems proper to list them as a jam band. I'm gonna go ahead and make the change.69.249.55.6 (talk) 00:39, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Not from Macon
The Allman Brothers Band was not from Georgia (much less Macon, Georgia), nor were any of its original members. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnskeller (talk • contribs) 12:30, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Please invest time here
Both this band page and those of the individual members have been sorely in need of cleanup, update, and more. Are there any people here willing to start a low-key work group for the Allman Brothers band? It appears to have no continuous editing from anyone. --leahtwosaints (talk) 03:55, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Members list in infobox
The members list in the infobox is completely ridiculous. We really think it's more important for quick reference that our readers know that Marc Quinones and Oteil Burbridge are in the current, barely notable, oldies circuit version of the band, than to inform them of the existence of Dickey Betts and Duane Allman? The original line-up of the band should be listed in the infobox, with newer incarnations discussed somewhere else. This is a problem with many articles, but seems particularly ridiculous here. john k (talk) 06:50, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * If you think that the current version of ABB is in the oldies circuit, then you haven't seen them in concert lately. However, the various lineups and changes are listed at the end of the article. KitHutch (talk) 12:39, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, not the oldies circuit, per se, but clearly of way less historical significance than the classic late 60s/early 70s lineups. I know that the various lineups are listed at the end of the article.  But you don't think it would be helpful if such key members of the band as Duane Allman and Dickey Betts were listed specifically in the infobox? john k (talk) 16:22, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * As the other editor stated, your assertions about the current ABB are really, really offbase. Warren Haynes and Derek Trucks both have huge followings as guitarists within and outside the band and both were ranked in Rolling Stone's Top 100 Guitarists of All Time list (along with Duane and Dickey).  The band is still quite vital.  That said, I agree that it would be good if there was a way for Duane, Dickey, and Berry, and perhaps Lamar Williams and Chuck Leavell (who were members at the time of the band's commercial peak in 1972-74, and the latter of whom is still well known), to be listed in the infobox.  But this is not an equivalent to the situation of real oldies acts such as The Temptations, as you claimed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Musicians.  Get yourself to the (transplanted) Beacon Run, now ...  Wasted Time R (talk) 02:59, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Problem solved. — Mudwater (Talk) 03:22, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me, thanks. Wasted Time R (talk) 03:31, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Unlike a lot of oldies acts, the Temptations still release albums, too, as I discovered when I was looking into this - one of them got a pretty good rating on Allmusic, although I'll agree that the Allmans are obviously considerably more vital. That being said, I think the basic point still stands.  The current incarnation of the Allmans are a significant band, but their level of significance is clearly several levels below that of the original band (and, indeed, the Leavell/Williams era mid-70s band).  As such, I think it would behoove us to do something to indicate key members like Betts and Allman in the infobox.  I think that putting all the former members back into the infobox is certainly an improvement, but I still wish there was a way to indicate the original lineup, as well; putting Duane Allman at the same level as people like Mike Lawler and Johnny Neel who don't even have Wikipedia articles remains a bit frustrating.  john k (talk) 15:39, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I get what you mean, but there's also a lot of value to having the information in the infobox be consistent between different band articles. The current standard, as more or less enforced by the infobox template itself, is to have one section for current members and another section for former members. This is explained in more detail at Template:Infobox musical artist.  Of course, that's just the infobox.  There's a lot more flexibility in how the article itself is written. — Mudwater (Talk) 23:20, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Part of the problem here has been that the lead section was poor. I've expanded it significantly to summarize the band's entire history.  Assuming readers look at that in addition to the infobox, even if they don't read the rest of the article, they'll get a good idea of the importance of the original band's lineup.  Wasted Time R (talk) 01:31, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Very good. Thanks.  — Mudwater (Talk) 01:59, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Lede
THe lede is far too long and detailed. All of the historical information about membership belongs in the body of the article and not the lede. The lede is solely a summary of what the Allman Brothers Band is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.201.158.189 (talk) 22:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Not true; read WP:LEAD: "The lead serves both as an introduction to the article and as a summary of the important aspects of the subject of the article. ... The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview of the article." WP:LEAD also recommends it be two or three paragraphs in length (given the size of this article), so the three that it is fits. One way to judge a lead is imagine that the reader never goes past the first screen they see, which typically means they don't get past the table of contents.  Will the lead still give them a good understanding of the subject?  I believe the current lead does that, but a shorter one wouldn't.  Wasted Time R (talk) 22:57, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Jazz Fusion
One anonymous editor keeps putting "jazz fusion" as one ABB genre. While they do have a lot of improvisation, that does not qualify as jazz fusion. What do the rest of you think? KitHutch (talk) 17:03, 12 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree that it would be better not to add jazz fusion as a genre in the infobox. Jazz fusion is more like jazz that's been heavily influenced by rock.  Southern blues-rock with a lot of improvisation doesn't fall under that label. — Mudwater (Talk) 17:21, 12 June 2010 (UTC)


 * The Allmans were definitely influenced by jazz, especially by Coltrane and Kind of Blue-era Miles. However I don't think they ever really played jazz fusion, but rather created their own sound, where certain aspects (for example, Duane and 'sheets of sound' playing, Jaimoe's drumming) were informed by what they had soaked up from jazz.  Wasted Time R (talk) 20:35, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Trucks image
In the image captioned "Derek Trucks playing slide guitar, 2009" he doesn’t appear to be using a slide. Recaption? Jimeffindandy (talk) 08:35, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Replaced Gregg Allman for John Payne
Not sure how anyone could miss this if they read the lead, but John Payne was listed as the brother of Duane Allman. Replaced his name link with the one for Gregg Allman. An obvious but apparently overlooked mistake until now. I hope no one finds it controversial. No clue who John Payne is, when I clicked up his name it brought up a disambig page with the only musician listing as a saxophone/flute player. I don't know if he was in the band at any point but in any case he definitely wasn't Duane Allman's brother or a founding member. Lol —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.170.38.252 (talk) 02:31, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Account of Duane's accident
The detailed account of the motorcycle accident is more appropriate to Duane's article, which has a briefer account. A brief account for the band page is more appropriate because the details are not pertinent to the story of the band, only to Duane. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:6000:9FC0:9:D132:C3F6:BBD3:A0FC (talk) 02:16, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Dates in infobox
Warren Haynes and Derek Trucks said that they're leaving the band at the end of 2014, and Greg Allman said that the band would stop touring after that. So right now it looks like 2014 will be the last year for the ABB. I've added a couple of sentences about this, with references, to the end of the lead section. But, until the band actually stops touring, I really think that the third date range in the infobox should be "1989–present", not "1989–2014", for two reasons. (1) Per WP:FUTURE, Wikipedia should not report future events, because those events might not really happen. (2) Readers and editors looking at the infobox and seeing an end date of 2014 will tend to assume that the band has already broken up (which most likely explains this edit). — Mudwater (Talk) 16:41, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Infobox: genres getting too long?
Wikipedia's template for musical artists indicates to "aim for generality" in the infobox with regard to genres. Should we reach a consensus on reducing the amount of genres in the infobox on this article? It's starting to get quite extensive! Twyfan714 (talk) 23:29, 4 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Good idea. How about "Blues rock, Southern rock"? — Mudwater (Talk) 00:16, 5 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Sounds good to me! Anyone else wanna weigh in? Twyfan714 (talk) 00:28, 5 April 2014 (UTC)


 * It's been three weeks, and no one has objected to this idea, so I've gone ahead and made the change. — Mudwater (Talk) 00:04, 26 April 2014 (UTC)


 * If the band's music is generally characterized as "Southern rock" and "blues rock" by the most reliable sources on this article's topic, then I would agree to this change. Dan56 (talk) 22:16, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Beginnings (1973) - Anyone Care to Add to Discography....?
I was surprised to see no mention of the 1973 release, Beginnings, A double album, consisting of two of their previous releases The Allman Brothers Band & Idlewild South, relabeled with new cover art.

When it was originally released, there was no indication anywhere on the album or on the labels on the LP's themselves that these were actually previous releases, something which the wiki entry for this album makes very unclear by their indication of which previously released album each LP actually was.

For the individual buying the album, and perhaps hearing the band for the first time, there was no way for them to know these had been released previously, and this appeared to be a new release and representative of a concerts worth of material, given the amount of material along with the albums cover art of the band in performance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beginnings_(The_Allman_Brothers_Band_album)

For many, like myself, this was their first Allman Brothers album, and remains to this day one of my favorites. Gmeades (talk) 09:48, 4 March 2015 (UTC)