Talk:The Amazing Race/Archive 1

Untitled
I added the fact that Amazing Race is being shown on LivingTV 2. I keep talking to people here in the UK who are complaining that it's not on, yet it is...just not very well publicised. We've had Seasons 6, 7 & 3 so far.

Noticed that under criticisms(and elsewhere), the abusive behaviour of Jonathan was changed a couple weeks ago from "shoving" to "wife-beating". I haven't seen the episode in question, so I don't know if this is accurate or POV. 70.56.93.86 06:54, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Is the yeild really an hour? How do we know this? It hasn't been used on the show yet. (fullerton 19:24, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC))
 * I'm not sure. I only remember them explaining the Yield once during this season, but I can't remember if they specified the amount of time or not.  The race glossary on the CBS site only says that the team must wait until the sand in an hourglass runs out, but doesn't specify how long that takes. - MattTM 10:01, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * The first episode also only says that it's a predetermined length of time. I remember reading in an interview that it was either 15 or 30 minutes, but since we're not sure I'll just edit the time out of that for now - SonicAD 13:35, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I just read the other day that Colin from TAR 5 has said that he and Christie were Yielded for 32 minutes when it was used on them. I still believe the time is different for each Yield so that should only apply to that one. --SonicAD 22:39, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I don't remember a team finishing last and being eliminated after using the FF. One time a team came in last, but they were saved by another team's penalty. Anyone remember a time when the FF was used but left a team eliminated? SonicAD 19:45, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I checked into it. It happened on the third episode of the third season to Dennis and Andrew. - MattTM 02:52, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Yep, I remember that now... need to watch TAR3 again, I seem to be losing my memory of it :) - SonicAD 22:09, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Just a minor note on the edit I just made, Roadblock appears to be the correct spelling as opposed to Road Block. Evidence here, forewarning: TAR5 episode 6 spoilers. Just want to make sure not to cause a huge argument over this. :) --SonicAD 04:36, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Should it be added that for the roadblock, the "description of the objective" is really nothing more than a vague hint, e.g., "Who's hungry?" - Tevi 00:17, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Also, possibly the fact that players can often figure out part or all of what the task is by looking at their surroundings - (e.g., TAR5 episode 2, the fact that... [what was the clue, "who can run and use their hands," or something?]) - Tevi 00:21, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

For the Pit Stops section, should we clarify that "Teams leave exactly twelve hours after they arrive," except when given a penalty or a time credit? Tevi 00:26, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Both of your suggestions sound fine. Make any changes you see fit, they can always be amended if someone disagrees. :) - MattTM 01:55, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)
 * Teams don't always leave 12 hours later (not counting time credits and penalties), as there are sometimes production difficulties. Sometimes they're extended out to 36 hours (in an interview Hayden said this occured 4 times in TAR 6, and they were also show to occur in a timeline for TAR 1), and even 60 hours (also in TAR 1). When they have to be extended they are extended in 24 hour increments so that it still looks like teams are leaving 12 hours later. --SonicAD 22:39, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps someone with more knowledge than me could include information about what equipment the teams are allowed to bring with them on the race. We know they all have their own backpacks and clothing, which seems to have been perpared before the race begins. I'd love to know what else is legal for players to bring. Dmleach 13:28, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I was under the impression that the Route Markers were the Yellow/Red ones for season 1, a White/Yellow one for Season 2, then a return to the Yellow/Red ones for all subsequent seasons. I know the TAR official website has a White/Yellow graphic for season one, but can someone check my memory recall and confirm what's on the broadcast tapes for that season? I remember thinking that they changed the markers from season to season, and when the Yellow/Red markers returned in Season 3 I thought that was a good thing since I thought the White/Yellow were harder to see. --SpikeJones 1:20P, 2005 May 23

A Suggested Route For The Next Season
As a seasoned traveller-slash-backpacker and an avid fan of "The Amazing Race", I would like to suggest a world route that explores new locations from already previously visited countries, as well as places not yet featured by T.A.R. These places can offer some exciting challenges as well as a refreshing view of our world. This show is a good promoter of world tourism, as well as showing the humorous incompetence and frustration of the typical American traveller. Knock yourself out with these fabulous sites (which I have all visited). If I may also suggest lest the CBS producers of T.A.R., Elise Doganieri and Bertram Van Munster, can encounter this, I would like it if they extend the legs to at least fourteen, six Fast Forwards, five Yields, and four Non-elimination Legs with twelve Teams of two competing.

Starting Point: Manhattan, New York, USA to Vina Del Mar, Chile (Elimination/Fast Forward)

Leg Two: Vina Del Mar, Chile to Fortaleza, Brazil (Elimination/Yield)

Leg Three: Fortaleza, Brazil to Antananarivo, Madagascar (Elimination/Fast Forward)

Leg Four: Antananarivo, Madagascar to Egilsstadir, Iceland (Non-elimination)

Leg Five: Egilsstadir, Iceland to London, United Kingdom (Elimination/Fast Forward)

Leg Six: London, United Kingdom to Athens, Greece (Non-elimination)

Leg Seven: Athens, Greece to Kathmandu, Nepal (Elimination/Fast Forward)

Leg Eight: Kathmandu, Nepal to Harbin, China (Elimination/Yield)

Leg Nine: Harbin, China to Jayapura, Irian Jaya, Indonesia (Elimination/Yield)

Leg Ten: Jayapura, Irian Jaya, Indonesia to Siargao, Philippines (Non-elimination/Fast Forward)

Leg Eleven: Siargao, Philippines to Broome, Australia (Elimination)

Leg Twelve: Broome, Australia to Invercargill, New Zealand (Non-elimination/Fast Forward/Yield)

Leg Thirteen: Invercargill, New Zealand to Niihau, Hawaii (Elimination/Yield)

Finish Line: Niihau, Hawaii to Key West, Florida (Winner)


 * This is a bit out of scope for an Encyclopedia entry. Your suggestion would probably be more appropriate on a fan-site or sent to CBS.  I'm not trying to Flame you, just inform you that Wikipedia isn't a BBS.SDG 15:52, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Countries List
An idea... perhaps the list of counties visited should be an actual (formatted) list, not embedded in a paragraph.

Thoughts?

I'd also like to see something other than some jumbo paragraph on the locations visited. Maybe there could be a table organized by continents, listing the countries that been visited. It could even be sorted by number of times each country has been visited.

--Madchester 06:04, 2005 Feb 23 (UTC)

Is there any logical reason for the order the countries are listed in the table? I'd say we either go with alphabetical, or chronological. It's quite a mess. ===(Unsigned comment by 200.150.44.232)===
 * Actually the current table format is really neat. You don't want to see the list of 30+ countries originally listed in the introduction.  But to appease the masses the list has been alphabetized. --Madchester 03:52, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you! 200.150.44.232

Please don't add specific states visited in the United States. If we follow that precedent, we'd also need to list Indian states, Chinese provinces, etc. also visited on the race. Hawaii, Alaska, and Puetro Rico are specified, since they aren't part of the continental United States. Likewise, a place like Hong Kong is specified, since it is an SAR (Special Autonomous Region) of China. --Madchester 21:31, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, if we specify "England and Scotland" for the United Kingdom, what's wrong with listing U.S. states? I would probably have agreed before, but since a large portion of Season 8 was on a state-by-state level rather than country-by-country, it seems kind of necessary.  --CrazyLegsKC
 * England and Scotland are specified, since they are inividual constituent countries located within the United Kingdom. If were to include American states, then we should also include:
 * Indian states (Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan, Kerala, Maharashtra, etc.)
 * Chinese provinces (Shaanxi)
 * South African provinces (Gauteng, Western Cape)
 * Australian states (New South Wales, Queensland), etc.
 * The point of a table is to provide the most immediate information to a reader. By further specifying the specific state/province/territory/district visited, it defeats the purpose of having a table.  Those details are explained in detail in the respective race pages. --Madchester 22:14, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I still don't see what's wrong about it. Since TAR is an American show, people might be interested in seeing the specific states it has visited, especially since Season 8 was mostly within the United States.  On the other hand, the foreign-sounding names of Indian states probably wouldn't mean a lot to anyone.  After all, the clues for foreign countries usually just state the country (Sydney, Australia), while the clues for the United States give the specific state (Phoenix, Arizona instead of Phoenix, USA).  Perhaps there could be a separate table just for the States? CrazyLegsKC 21:01, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
 * "On the other hand, the foreign-sounding names of Indian states probably wouldn't mean a lot to anyone."
 * On last check the show was being aired in dozens of countries worldwide. You should have seen some of the strong response from Singaporeans after they complained about the portrayal of their city in Season 3.  And Phil specifically states the province/state that a team visits, regardless of the country.  For example in Season 5, Phil explains that  "Teams must fly approximately 5,000 miles to the capital of the Philippines, Manilla.  Once there, teams must travel to the province of Cavite and get to this motor company (Malaguena Motors) to find their next clue."
 * Regardless of where the show is produced, it should always comply to neutral point of view. Given the international appeal of the show, there's no need to write this article with a sense of systematic bias.  If you're going to include American states, you should also include other regional jurisdictions visited on the Race, whether it's a Canadian province, an Indian state, a Filippino province, a South African province, etc.
 * The point of the Countries List/table is to present the most basic facts immediately. It defeats its purpose when you try to place each and every regional jurisdiction visited on the race.  --Madchester 21:21, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Biggest Blown Lead
I am just curious if anyone has logged the biggest lead (in terms of hours) by a team (in any season) where the lead was eventually lost to a subsequent event. I thought I recall a team a few seasons back with a 10 hour lead and they lost it due to a site being closed. I think it was Colin & Christie in season 5. Can anyone confirm? - Tvgeek

That's not really a blown lead... it was just a bottleneck due to the operating hours of the place. --Madchester 07:10, 2005 Mar 27 (UTC)

Criticisms
I added a Criticisms section to the page. As much as I love the show, it's had its share of low moments, and there's many areas that it can improve on. --Madchester 22:14, 2005 Mar 18 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer to see you cite a source for the criticisms, otherwise they seem out of sorts (think of it this way... there is no "Praise" section to counter those claims). I'd also like to see the section rewritten as prose, rather than bullet points. -- Netoholic @ 03:30, 2005 Mar 19 (UTC)
 * Two consecutive Emmys isn't praise enough? If you've watched all the seasons of the show, you'll notice a lot of changes that have affected the nature of the race.  The producers have tweaked with the show regularly and while it's helped improve the ratings since Season 5, they've compromised some of the competitiveness and fascination that's been lacking in recent installments.


 * Take the food challenges. In Season 1, all the teams had to do in Tunis, Tunisia was find a cafe in a bustling market and each member had to drink a local tea to get their clue.  That was it.  In Season 2, one Detour was to look for a medicine shop in the busy streets of Kowloon, Hong Kong and drink a small, but bitter bowl of herbal medicine.  Now the food challenges are all about quantity... 2lbs. of caviar and having an ostrich egg in one sitting for Season 5?  That massive bowl of spicy soup in Season 6?  And now 4 lbs of beef and entrails this year.  It's ridiculous really; they're  neglecting the cultural aspect of the culinary experience and just doing a crazy eating challenge.


 * I really recommend everyone to watch all the season of TAR, from 1 to 6. The show used to have a lot of class that separated it from the other reality game shows, but it's stooped kind of low just to grab ratings.--Madchester 05:14, 2005 Mar 19 (UTC)

Spoiler Tag
Since some people are sensitive to spoilers, I added a spoiler tag for the benefit of those ppl.. plus people who may not have seen all seasons of the race. --Madchester 07:09, 2005 Mar 27 (UTC)

Someone keeps trying to remove the spoiler tag. If you look at other pages for television shows, say Alias, 24, and even the recent Jeopardy! Ultimate Tournament of Champions, there's a spoiler tag to warn readers about plot and game details.

You have to realize that the Race has only picked up in popularity since Summer 2004, and many readers may not have watched the first 4 seasons of the race. Furthermore, broadcasting schedules are different in each country, so some viewers (such as those in Australia) are still watching the 6th season, with no knowledge of the happenings in Season 7 since it will only be aired later in the year.

For example, current Aussie viewers may not want to be spoiled about the new rules changes for Season 7, or the new locations that will be visited in that installment including Botswana and Turkey. Conversely, the first season DVD is coming out in the fall, and newer viewers to the show may not want to be spoiled about the penalties picked up by racers that season (cuz there were many and they affected a lot of placements and eliminations)

The spoiler tag warns readers of any potential plot details of all seasons of the race, since it's not fair to say that all readers have been seen all 80+ episodes of the race. --Madchester 17:35, 2005 May 5 (UTC)

Kind of beating a dead horse, but with GSN re-airing the show from Season 1 (now airing Season 2), the spoiler tag has even more relevance for recent viewers of the show, who have never seen the older episodes. --Madchester 03:21, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

Hayden and Aaron, Xi'an Roadblock
This is how Hayden and Aaron explained the lock Roadblock in an interview with TV Guide Online:

TVGO: Was it stress that ultimately caused you to quit the race?

Hayden: I'm upset about that because there was no quitting. Here's exactly what happened: I got to the Roadblock at 3 and I was there for four hours. At 6:40, we were told that we had to leave the mountain at 7. They gave us two options: You could stay overnight at the hotel and continue in the morning or you could not finish the challenge and take the time penalty. Why in the world would you stay overnight when you would be 20 hours behind the other teams? If you take the four-hour penalty, you're still probably not going to win, but you'll be a lot closer. So at 6:59, I looked over at Aaron and said, "Honey, we've been here four hours and we'll beat Adam and Rebecca in a foot race back to the pit stop. Should we just stop?" And he's like, "OK." It's 7 and as those words are literally coming out of my mouth, Rebecca opens her lock. I raced back over, I'm crying and I'm trying to open the lock. But it was after 7 and I was done. So the fact that the show made it look like I quit makes me angry because I don't quit at anything. I never give up and I was told that I had to.

So they were basically trying to pull off Rob's strategy from Season 7... but it screwed up royally in their faces. --Madchester 22:03, 2005 Mar 28 (UTC)

Non-elimination legs
Madchester, I'm not sure why you took out my edit without explaining why in the discussion, since I feel it is a valid contribution. I've since removed what you may feel is extraneous information, but I still think it adds to the section. javascript:insertTags('--Madchester 19:32, 2005 Apr 21 (UTC)',,); Your signature with timestamp (The text is now "This usually results in the comical appearance of teams who feel they are coming last checking in wearing several layers of clothes at the pit stop.")

Please at least leave an explanation if you're going to take out a chunk of text you don't like. --Vision4bg 15:15, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

NPOV, very simple. Try not to insert your personal opinion into an article, mucho gracias. --Madchester 19:32, 2005 Apr 21 (UTC)

How is this not a neutral point of view? How else would you describe people wearing all their clothes at once? Maudlin? Until you can provide a *real* reason I'm reverting my (very minor) addition. --Vision4bg 01:22, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Can we remove your personal point of view? You may have found them comical but that's just a personal opinion. I thought they were OTT goofy coming into the pit stop, and I could say that "teams make ridiculous entries" instead and it wouldn't add anything significant to the article at all.

It's like Rob's strategy of skipping that meat-eating Roadblock. You may think it's clever and a new element to the game, while others think its under-handed and a wrong direction for the teams. Leave it NPOV to be fair for all parties. --LeoTheLion 03:25, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

So why not just remove the adjective if you find it too personally descriptive? It's still an interesting result of the new rules. Futhermore, I don't see the difference in describing wearing all your clothes, or a strange mixture of clothes (such as Brian and Greg's) as comical compared to describing new penalties as "more severe" or events that occur in the race as "unlucky". The penalities might be "more fair" to the other teams or the events such as a car breaking down described simply as "events". Why not ban adjectives all together? --Vision4bg 03:31, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Vision, I believe they were removing the adjective because they found it too descriptive. The issue here is you putting it back. Mo0 [ talk ] 03:44, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunately Mo0, Madchester insisted on consistently removing my text completely. I have since modified it myself. --Vision4bg 03:49, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It looks good now. It presents what was really a fact. Lynn and Alex have done it twice now, and Brian and Greg did it with flair. The only objectionable part was the description of it as "comical", which is now gone. :) Mo0 [ talk ] 04:14, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Time credits/deductions (which section?)
I've read that the race has a system of checks and balances to ensure that teams are properly rewarded for their efforts. For example, teams have to be filmed reading clues, waiting for the camera crew, filmed getting into vehicles, etc. and what production does is they add or subtract any time spent on these activities. However, unless it's a serious penalty (for example during a Roadblock or Detour), the times are adjusted behind the scenes.

Just wondering which section ths should be placed in. --Madchester 02:06, 2005 Apr 30 (UTC)


 * Do you have more information on this? I have no idea what section it should be placed in since I don't quite understand what you're saying. :( Mo0 [ talk ] 02:22, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * For example, in The Amazing Race 7, Meredith/Gretchen mentioned in their webjournal that the camera crew lost them in the crowded streets of India (on their way to that Box roadblock). So they actually had to wait for their camera crew to find them before they could continue on with the race.  At the end of the leg, M/G were given a time credit for the production mishap.


 * Basically, there's a lot of little things that happen in each leg, whether its rule violations or production difficulties and teams will be rewarded or penalized teams accordingly. Only the big penalties (where they're losing a good 30-45 mins) are mentioned to the viewer at the start of a leg.    That's why the results from the last leg don't always correpsond to the corresponding departure times on the next leg.  --Madchester 05:14, 2005 Apr 30 (UTC)


 * Where exactly is M & G's webjournal located? 216.102.6.176 15:21, 12 May 2005 (UTC)


 * It was located on the website for the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier (for some reason - I've read that Meredith used to work as a guard there? Meredith's Bio).  It was subsequently pulled -Check the Internet Archive for this original page?.  --SpikeJones 1:16P, 2005 May 23

Fern and Anti-Fern
Should the fandom terms "Fern" (helpful local in honor of Fern of Hong Kong) and "Anti-Fern" (misleading local) be somewhere mentioned in either The Amazing Race or The Amazing Race 7? Kail Ceannai 04:41, 2005 May 11 (UTC)
 * Why does everyone think it's Fern of HK? This happened in Thailand.--Madchester 05:00, 2005 May 11 (UTC)


 * Because not having much experience with the differences between Asian countries and trying to remember way back into early season muddles the mind. Oops. Kail Ceannai 15:18, 2005 May 11 (UTC)
 * No worries! --Madchester 16:12, 2005 May 22 (UTC)

Roadblock limit
While some teams in the past relied one team member more than the other for roadblocks, it was really the 5th season that put it OTT. The women on the Final 3 only did one RB each, while the 4th and 5th place teams (consisting of two females) split the RB tally fairly evenly. The new RB limit was made to give all-female teams a better chance of winning, given the circumstances at the end of Season 5. --Madchester 15:26, 2005 May 22 (UTC)

International appeal of show
I think there should be a small blurb on where the show is aired outside of US/Canada. Like I know in Asia it's aired on AXN.... like overall it has a fairly broad appeal among the global audience. --Madchester 17:58, 2005 Jun 4 (UTC)

I'm going to be creating a section on this, and including info on the grassroots races created by fans in their local neighbourhoods. Like one in Victoria, British Columbia which always had onlookers thinking it was part of the offiicial race. --Madchester 02:55, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

Phil Keoghan photo
I'd like to put a photo of Phil, but it'd make the intro too cluttered. Any suggestions? --Madchester 07:17, July 27, 2005 (UTC)


 * Perhaps the Pit Stops section? It mentions him a lot, and isn't illustrated right now. Radagast 14:52, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Survivor Sucks link
I've noticed that a lot of people have been removing the link to the Survivor Sucks Amazing Race board. Plz don't do so, cuz it's one of the largest online TAR communities and several past racers post there (semi)-regularly including Hera (Season 6), Ray (Season 7), Susan (Season 7), Jonathan (Season 6), Tian (Season 4) and Mirna (Season 5). --Madchester 14:12, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Show Length
The latest revision (8/15/05) changes "usually one hour" to "normally one hour" when stating that the show lasts 1 hour. I'd disagree in that 2 hour end-of-race specials are a regular feature. Stating "normally" seems more firm, and gives the feel that any deviation is not from the producers of the show. The word "usually" seems more correct, in that most of the time it's true, but not all the time. Seems like a signifigant change to me, but then again, I just ranted for a paragraph over one word... Mr.Logic 21:03, August 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * It's only the last few seasons that they aired the 2 hr finales. Regardless, each hour is only 1 leg of the race, anyway. Likewise, it was only Season 5 when they started to air 2 hour premieres. --Madchester 21:14, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

TAR in id
Hi evrybody, I'm an Indonesian wikipedia n also an Amazing Race fan. I just started 2 articles about TAR in Indonesian. I hope u guys can help especially for the images. Thank you!--Indoboy 15:22, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Spain.
It did not feature route markers, challenges, or finish mats. The teams only passed Spain on their way to Morocco, thus it should not be on the list any more than Japan. Cabus
 * Actually the clue instructed teams to go to that specific port in Spain. When they got there, they realized they had to board the car ferry... they had no idea that it would end up going to Africa.  It's not like the Japan situation where all the flights so happened to make a stopover in Japan (like in Season 6).  There are direct flights from China to Hawaii. --Madchester 16:02, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I know I am being very pedantic and I'm sorry, but I disagree. :D Aaron and Arianne were the first to open the clue at the bottom of Cabo da Roca. Arianne read the part of the clue which instructed them to drive to Algeciras, at which point Aaron interrupted with - and this is important - "I knew it, we're going to Morocco." This is when Phil's voice over explains they will take a ferry there and get their next clue in Tangier. Aaron's comment shows that the clue indicated they were going to Morocco, unless he specifically knew that the port there had ferries to cross the Mediterranean. In any case, they never showed a cluebox and route info in the ferry terminal in Spain, so I think it is sort of misleading to classify Spain as visited while other "on-the-way-to-somewhere-else" countries are not listed. However, I do realize you're the major contributor to this article and it is completely up to you. My only worry is that the list makes it look like Spain was featured in an episode (like all other listed countries were) when it was barely shown at all. --Cabus

Route Info image
Would it be possible for someone to get an image of the blue Route Info card to go with the description like the others (Detour, Roadblock, FF, Yield)? I know they don't show it on the website, but perhaps it could be taken from a screenshot. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.69.161.86 (talk • contribs) 19:35, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * If it's just for an icon on the route info pages, someone good at pixel art might be able to make one. Andy Janata 03:05, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * It would be nice if we could get a route marker from Season 8 too.Anchorage 13:05, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Good idea; done. CrazyLegsKC 02:21, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Eliminated Reasons
I was wondering if I could have permission from the moderators of The Amazing Race section to post in each season a section stating the reason's for each team's elimination, like the sections they have in the Survivor Wikipedia articles. Thanks. -Hans


 * There's already links to other sites that contain full recaps and sypnosis of each leg of the race. Notable eliminations are already included within the race trivia. --Madchester 07:53, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Countries Map
Oops! I just realized that the map I used to for the countries/locales section is slightly outdated--it shows the USSR instead of Russia and all the new independent states. Could a very talented person please edit the image (perhaps using MS Paint) to fix this? CrazyLegsKC 05:16, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I hope it's okay, but I made a different map in Wikipedia's style. Please tell me if I missed anything - this is my first wikipedia upload and image edit. Cabus 15:50, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
 * That looks fine. I just wish that the wikipedia maps didn't look so distorted.  But the full-size image on the image page looks okay.  Good job! ! --CrazyLegsKC 09:48, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Could you put Vatican City in green for the unaired fast forward in TAR 1? Anchorage 12:13, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Should Vatican City really be included? Nobody took that Fast Forward, so it wasn't really "visited". 128.230.13.84 00:18, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes it should. It "hosted an actual route marker". Anchorage 12:30, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * This is why I disagree with the list: Spain and Kenya did not host actual route markers, but they're on the list. Vatican City and Belize were planned locations, but did not make the cut due to race circumstances. Personally, I don't think any of those four countries should be listed, and I think the list should restrict itself to countries that featured a pit-stop mats. Cabus 02:14, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * If only countries with pit-stop mats were included, then before Season 4 Austria and Malaysia wouldn't have been included, even though they yielded several route markers in Season 3. I agree with Kenya and Spain being on the list because even though those destinations didn't have actual route markers, the clue specifically stated that teams had to go through those countries in order to get to the next destination. They were, in effect, part of The Amazing Race route. Doing otherwise would have perhaps resulted in a penalty for the team. -Hans
 * Point taken. But how does that work with Vatican City though? If the location never made it in the episode, can we really say it is a locale that was visited by the show? Cabus 02:27, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * An asterisk (*) could do the trick. That's really the only time that a Fast Forward gave teams the chance to visit an additional country. --Madchester 02:42, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * That's good idea... Should we do that? Anchorage 12:00, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Uh-oh...someone edited the image to color in what appears to be Vatican City, but is actually San Marino. Vatican City (still gray) would be the one-pixel country located on the western coast of Italy; San Marino (now colored green) is the one-pixel country in the northeast part of Italy.  Could someone edit the image to fix this (color VC green and SM gray)?  I'm not very adept at editing images; whenever I try, it doesn't work. --CrazyLegsKC 04:25, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Done and done. Cabus 14:45, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * On my computer, it doesn't show Vatican City in green. Does this happen to anybody else? Anchorage 20:19, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Penalties
OK, here's something to discuss. In Season 1, Nancy and Emily received a 24-hour penalty for voluntarily quitting a task. In Seasons 6 and 7, several teams received 4-hour penalties for voluntarily quitting tasks. There are two popular explanations as to why the penalties were different.


 * 1) The 24-hour penalty from Season 1 was judged to be too harsh and was reduced for later seasons.
 * 2) Nancy & Emily got a larger penalty because the task that they didn't do was a Detour.

Which is correct? Brennan from Season 1 has said (on two different message boards) that the 4-hour penalty for quitting a Roadblock did indeed exist back in Season 1. This seems to imply that #2 is correct, but is a message board post authoritative enough for Wikipedia? I don't remember exactly what Boston Rob said about the 4-hour penalty in Season 7, does it really support #1?

It's kinda hard to tell which one is correct because no team has quit a Detour since Season 1.

128.230.13.84 00:18, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Some editors would say that a messageboard is not a "valid source" per Reliable sources, but I'd disagree, since they've provided a lot of info for the Race pages. There's not too much info bout the race from the official site besides the vanilla details from the show itself.  Have any links to Brennan's responses? --Madchester 00:55, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Here's Brennan's message. In this case the source wouldn't be a messaqge board, the source would be a person who ran the race and read every page of the rule book.  I would consider this a very reliable source. Jtrost 01:12, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Never read that post while on holidays... I have no doubt it's Brennan, but I know some editors would use the WP:Verifiability card to say that you don't know if it's him or not. We could just use his comments as a counter-reference to what we've seen the past few seasons. --Madchester 05:43, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Why, then, does the page say that the standard penalty for skipping tasks is 4 hours, with no mention as to the possibility that 4 hours is only for Roadblocks, while 24 hours is for Detours? It's more than likely that Brennan is posting and what he's saying is trueHansTAR 01:41, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

102 Episodes?
As much as the 100th episode was celebrated and such, I don't think there's been 102 episodes of The Amazing Race. Here's a breakdown of each season:

Season 1: 13 legs, 13 episodes (1 per leg)

Season 2: 13 legs, 11 episodes (Leg 8&9 two hour special, 2 leg finale)

Season 3: 13 legs, 11 episodes (same as above)

Season 4: 13 legs, 13 episodes (1 per leg)

Season 5: 13 legs, 12 episodes (2-leg two-hour finale)

Season 6: 12 legs, 12 episodes (double length leg shown over two episodes, 2-leg finale)

Season 7: 12 legs, 11 episodes (Leg 5&6 two hour special, double length shown over two episodes, 2-leg finale)

Season 8: 11 legs, 11 episodes (Leg 7&8 two hour special, double length shown over two episodes, 1-leg two hour finale)

This adds up to only 94 total episodes. There HAVE been 100 total legs, and if double-length legs are counted as two, then there have been 104 "legs". But nowhere, as far as I can see, is there a number 102. If someone can correct me, please do. HansTAR 01:41, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Seasons 6 & 7 each had a mid-season clip/recap episode. Perhaps add that to the 100 total legs?  It doesn't seem to make sense, but that's gives the number 102. --CrazyLegsKC 17:13, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you, forgot about those. Still, it's not 102 episodes, so I'm curious to what someone like Madchester would say. 207.30.196.58 00:53, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

TV.com says there's 96 episodes By my count: I believe there were 12 episodes for Season 3 (I have that many on my computer) and an extra episode from Season 6 (i have 13 episodes from my computer too), so I'm for the 96 episodes as well.

The thing is sometimes they air back to back legs/episodes, and Phil even says "stay tuned to our next episode" after the first hour is over. Sometimes, the 2 hr finale is considered two separate episodes; other times it's a continuous one. I think that's where some of the counting errors came from.

You can solve this problem by choosing a consistent counting method. Either count them by "episode number" (ie., S3E09) or by the titles. Each show has a corresponding title based on a quote by a racer. (i.e., "Tell My Mom I Love Her" for that episode in Corsica) --Madchester 21:30, 18 January 2006 (UTC)