Talk:The Amazing Race 12/Archive 01

Greenlit?
My understanding is that at this stage CBS has not greenlit TAR12 and that casting has not yet taken place. Can anyone confirm this? If so, it should go in the article. 218.215.6.66 03:49, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * CBS hasn't officially renewed the program. In the meantime, Phil is working on NOW in Canada.  He was on a recent NOW book-signing and audition tour in Canada. --Madchester 22:25, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Chilltown on TAR 12?
I saw a video and it showed Mike and Erika then they showed something like CT's DR calls and then Will calls in and he said something about them being able to be on TAR 12? So are they on TAR 12? Agunimon 05:24, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Give that Phil is doing a summer show (not TAR), it's very unlikely that they've even decided on teams, much less started TAR12. --Masem 05:47, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Phil has been doing that show for years. I don't think he actually hosts it. And that phone call thing was made a long time ago. Way before anything was decided about TAR12.

Heads up...
I've seen reliable (to me, not to WP) sources that say the race is filming now and has been for a few days. Expect to start seeing some incoming links to the page that may or may not be truthful, so... --Masem 20:11, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Also note that TAR Asia 2 is running and was seen in Prague, so pretty much any sighting has to be confirmed as to which version is running. --Masem 15:09, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Forum-based website
Forum based website cannot added as reliable sources, as it oppose to WP:RS. Except that images is really clear and well known background. --Aleen f 1 12:09, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * FYI, Reality Fan Forum carefully and professionally analyzes the pictures taken and have already confirmed the location. They have the evidence and stuff, so why not allow the locations to be placed on the article? It's being done on The Amazing Race Asia 2 article as well.


 * Even if the forum validates it, it's not validation for WP standards because forums are rarely considered as valid sources. We're not disagreeing that the sighting is accurate, just that the source information is not appropriate.  If is happening for TAR Asia, (which I don't follow), then it should be removed too.  (And yes, we've done it before on other TARs but I think there's a higher standard now for sources.) --Masem 02:39, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * WP:RS doesn't comment on forum-based websites one way or another. And the use of forums is even observed on WP:RSN.  Now using it to list locations may be a but much, but there's an extensive body of evidence to clearly demonstrate that at least the race was run in July/August.  Whose to say whether a particular event was staged - it wouldn't be the first time eliminated racers have been used to stage things. Nfitz 21:42, 16 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It falls under lack of verifiability of self-published sources which is any website that you can add content to without review. --M ASEM 00:43, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It's not a self-published book, a personal website, or a blog. It's a forum.  And as such, there is a peer-review process going on. Nfitz 23:23, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Forum is a place where somebody hold the discussion, that mean something that lack of verifiability and questionable. At such, the resources must be trustworthy, clearly forum is not one of. --Aleen f 1 16:12, 18 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Do you have any doubt in the approximate filming time of the season based on the excessive and detailed documentation provided through the discussion in that forurm? They appear to have effictively peer-reviewed the information, questioned themselves where it wasn't clear, and have come to a good conclusion. Using the information there to start doing episode descriptions is clearly over the top, but it's good enough to provide an approximate reference to when the filming was done. Nfitz 23:12, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * When juicy sightings or rumours are discussed in these fan forums, they're often picked up by mainstream media. When a TV Guide or RealityNewOnline picks up on these forum rumblings and presents them in an article, then we can include it in this article, with regard to WP:RS.--Madchester 14:48, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Results table
Just to forestall any questions, I've only put 9 legs in the results table based on varied discussion that there are no non-elimination legs this season. As that lacks an official source, I haven't added any prose on that; if it turns out to be false, the table can always be expanded. Radagast 15:17, 24 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Theoretically it sounds correct, and as you said, it can always be expanded, so i don't see why its shouldn't be kept Survivorfan101 12:16, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, there's one theory that got shot down. I see the table's already been updated, my thanks to that editor. Radagast 02:06, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Yep, Phil sure shut us up! Survivorfan101 05:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

First Location
Just a quick question, which one way or the other will be answer in 3 days, has Ireland been confirmed as the first location? As far as i remember on the first location the teams are given a choice of 2-3 flights which are direct. LAX to Dublin, you have only one choice, Aer Lingus. Otherwise you need to fly to London or NYC first. It may seem trivialbut i thought i'd point it out. And on an irrelevent side note, its about time it came to Ireland --Irishboi 02:23, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe someone took from forum, sometime i doesn't believe, i'm more prefer to reliable sources such as news. --Aleen f 1 06:02, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * It is confirmed by TVGuide, is Ireland then Netherlands for Leg 2. --Aleen f 1 07:24, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Other Location
Now a whole list of the locations to be visited is up!!! Can this be confirmed? I think in previous seasons these weren't accepted as fact. --Irishboi 22:50, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm already delete it, you can do so next time. --Aleen f 1 23:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Distance traveled
Just a note, but the official website currently lists the distance traveled as 50,000 miles. I believe that's a website mistake (like past ones with their leaderboard) and we should be sticking to the current details provided in the Littman interview. --Madchester 06:46, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Non-Elimination
I know that the press release states that there will be no non-elimination legs for this race, but did anyone else that just watched the premiere hear Phil say that there would be non-elimination legs? If so, I'd propose putting in after the statement saying that there would be no non-elimination legs that Phil did say that there would be elimination legs. Anakinjmt 02:54, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

What he did say, was that there were eleven legs, eight of which are elimination legs. That implies two non-elimination legs. Wjmorris3 04:03, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Bertramm has stated there are no non-elimination legs. What the 2 legs are that aren't elimination and aren't the final -- well, we'll have to wait and see, but given what we have verifiable, we can't add anything in about NELs. --M ASEM  05:00, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Merge
How about we merge Episode title quotes and prizes into one summaries table, like:

How do you think? --Aleen f 1 09:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I like it very much!!!!!!! - ScottAHudson 6:33 AM, 5 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.213.89.130 (talk)

New Rules?
I found 2 new things, probably new rules, in official site, known as U-TURN and SPEED BUMP. Will it going to implement? What is that mean? --Aleen f 1 10:53, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Sounds interesting - where on the site did you find these? I couldn't locate them on a quick look, myself. Radagast 14:08, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Page three of the episode recap. It's not enough to include yet (it could just be a bad copy edit) but I've put out a feeler to see if these are legit so that we can get a source to add them .--M ASEM  14:16, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, yes. Quick link for the curious: Looks pretty deliberate to me, but it's certainly not enough to be verifiable. They should wait until we see them in the show itself, anyway. Radagast 15:30, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, they have taken it off, apparently. Probably wasn't meant to be revealed that early in the race. But from Kynt & Vyxsin's pre-race interview, they did mention something about using the U-Turn implement on a team that would betray their trust/alliance. 219.75.17.214 00:49, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

11 Legs
How could there be this many legs when there is an elimination every leg? ScottAHudson
 * The elimination-every-leg was seemingly disproved by Phil's breakdown in the opening rules: 11 Pit Stops, 8 elimination points. While there may be some different kind of mechanism on those other 3, it remains that we will have 11 legs. Radagast —Preceding comment was added at 14:01, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, just saw now that the Littman quote was sourced in the opener! I've put a proviso with Phil's intro details. Radagast 16:36, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * They may have double-legs with a midpoint elim, like two seasons ago in China. Again, personal speculation don't quote me on it. --Madchester 03:02, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * An additional possibility is that post-production the Non Elimination Legs were converted into first halves of double legs. Don't quote me either. Jon 19:41, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The next episode will be a double leg, that the Non-Elimination legs had dropped. That the end of the upcoming episode reveal, "TO BE CONTINUED". --10:28, 4 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.97.212.48 (talk)

Azaria and Hendekea
Are Azaria and Hendekea of Ethiopian or Eritrean heritage? Badagnani 08:39, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Ethiopian (stated by contestants on November 18, 2007 episode). Badagnani (talk) 01:08, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Looks like you answered your own question, huh? *giggles* - 上村七美 (Nanami-chan) | talkback | contribs 15:27, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

It's interesting that, apparently, camel milk is drunk as a traditional beverage in Ethiopia. Badagnani (talk) 17:26, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Spoiler Warning Please
Is it possible to put in a spoiler warning as people like me who live in Australia will not be able to see the series until around Febuary 2008  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.59.17 (talk) 06:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The top box about the show being still in its broadcast run doubles at the spoiler warning, and spoiler warnings are being depreciated except in extreme cases. Also please note to start new topics at the bottom of the talk page, thanks. --M ASEM  06:51, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Leg 3
Yea, I know this only matters for 3 days, but I will point out that the previews shown during Kid Nation for this upcoming episode have revealed the location (in that the racers are shown completely missing the pronunciation). --M ASEM 02:06, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso. Badagnani 02:08, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Leg 4
Umm. Why is there Guinea-Bissau spoiler for Leg 4, under Race Locations? Apparently, the person who put that there said there was an airplane logo on one of the previews. Firstly, I have not seen such a preview. Secondly, airplane logo are not sufficient to prove that that will be the next location. For all we know, it might be just a connection flight. (seen in Season 11 where teams flew Air Malawi but were not going to Malawi). And lastly, so far all textual evidence points that Leg 4 will remain in Burkina Faso. DanielTAR (talk) 02:28, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Place markers
"This is the first season not to include place markers at the pit stops since Season 1."

In that case - what's this?

Episode 1 - http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/7067/wmplayer200711211403585yi2.jpg

Episode 2 - http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9969/wmplayer200711211406199fc7.jpg

84.40.242.69 (talk) 13:11, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

U-Turn Icon Help
I have uploaded an icon for the new U-Turn in The Amazing Race 12's fourth episode. Can someone please fix this for me and put it in Wikipedia Commons and describe Shana and Jennifer u-turning Lorena and Jason? I would greatly appreciate it! Also, please give me feedback as to if the icon looks fine. UWAFanatic05 01:30 26 Nov 2007 (UTC)


 * Your U-Turn icon looks fine but I'm gonna make my own version to see if it is better or something. Aranho (talk) 02:41, 26 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, here are my versions of it:[[Image:Aranho TAR U-Turn.PNG‎|center|thumb|Here is the U-Turn for [[The Amazing Race]] article. Version 2 may be coming soon.]][[Image:Aranho U-turn icon.png‎|center|thumb|20px|Here is the U-Turn for icon uses.]]
 * Hope it's good. Aranho (talk) 04:01, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Yako or Bouta Pelegtanga
Was the first location in Leg 4 Yako proper, or the village of Bouta Pelegtanga? We didn't see "Bouta" spelled on the screen, so how is it spelled? Badagnani (talk) 02:46, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Highlighing 1st place
I don't know why is it so important but i think highlighting 1st places is not needed. So what if the team finished in first place, it is not so special. In addition, the colours used to highlight these 1st places (purple and blue) were reserved for non-eliminated legs. Also, if you have to highlight it, you have to highlight the 1st place on every other seasons and versions. Thus, a waste of time. So whoever is highlighting those first place, please stop it. Aranho (talk) 02:52, 26 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree - unlike other shows like, say Project Runway where there are multiple "winners" but no placings, colors can help, but here, it's strictly placement order - only special cases should be marked as such. Please retain (otherwise) non-colored entries. --M ASEM  03:06, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Leg 5
I added the country for Leg 5 as it was mentioned on the official CBS site:

"One Team continues burning bridges and making enemies when they force a fellow Racer out of an airline ticket office. One Team is too busy butting heads to realize their car is on a collision course with a speeding bus. The simple act of counting fence posts at a Lithuanian festival causes one dating couple's relationship to be anything but festive." Squall41269 (talk) 16:11, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

In addition, the 7 teams will depart Burkina Faso, the main airport is in the country's capital, Ouagadougou then they will fly to Vilnius, in Lithuania. Vilnius International Airport, is the country's main airport. The total distance may be 3200 miles (5120 kilometres). 08:18, November 29, 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.106.149.222 (talk)

Other African country?
Bertram van Munster stated in an interview prior to the season that TWO NEW African countries would be presented on this Race. Burkina Faso has been one. If teams do in fact go to Lithuania for Leg 5, where is the other African country? Surely, they would not go to Lithuania and then back to Africa and then on to Croatia, would they? Well, if anyone else has any thoughts about this, I'm interested to find out about the second new African country. UWAFanatic05 20:59, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * A reliable source (even if it contains potentially incorrect info) takes precedence over speculation, per Wiki policy. You can read up on location spoilers on most reality TV forums. --Madchester 22:34, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Personally, I think it's a good idea not to clump all the legs of a continent together if they can help it. So I think it's a good idea they are alternating African and Europe legs since they're of general close proximity and instead of doing all the legs of one countinent in one shot, it is actually a good idea to have a mix. I do think it's going to be Burkina Faso -> Lithuania -> Croatia -> 2nd New African country. It's a good idea because some times European legs tend to get repetitive and if there's a break in between, it's definitely much more refreshing and entertaining. DanielTAR 14:47, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with breaking up the continents to make it more interesting. Additionally, there have been rumors of either Guinea-Bisseau or Kenya being the location of the second African leg. Personally I have no idea though, just reporting what I've heard. Riptor3000 —Preceding comment was added at 05:22, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the input everyone! I feel the same way as DanielTAR now.  It makes sense.  I've heard rumors they go to either Guinea-Bissau or Niger myself.  UWAFanatic05 05:25, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * They're not going back to Africa. That guy probably mistook Burkina Faso for either two countries or that there would be two legs in Africa(the two legs in Burkina Faso). There are 6 legs left, and there is simply no room for an African leg. Croatia, Italy, India, Taiwan, Japan and the final leg in Alaska and the final city. That's six. All of those countries are confirmed through the opening screencaps. Tell me where they are going to squeeze in another African leg.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.168.35.247 (talk) 22:57, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Azaria & Christina??
Hi. There have been rumours circulating that after the race, Azaria & Christina hooked up. Azaria broke up with his ex-girlfriend to be with Christina and they have apparently been spotted together. These came from "The Amazing Race Wiki" and may be unreliable. So do you think it's alright to post it under post-race trivia? And can anyone source out this piece of information and check for authenticity? Thanks. DanielTAR 14:49, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I've seen the same too but not well sources. However, I would caution against adding it only because if have a relationship, it implies both teams go a good distance in the race, and may be considered a possible spoiler.  Let's find a more confirmed source and add it after either one of the teams is eliminated or the race is over (I have no idea beyond one spoiler where they end up, but that's from mid-race). --M ASEM  15:06, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I kinda agree. Anyway, I personally think that both teams either go very far together or are eliminated in the next couple of legs so they spend some time together at Elimination Villa. Either way, we'll see how it pans out as the race progresses then. DanielTAR 16:15, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Leg 6
The preview of the next episode that only six teams remain, The next destination of the following leg will go to Dubrovnik, in Croatia. All female teams are gone, only 5 co-ed teams and 1 all male team remain. -- December 3, 2007 -- 02:03 UTC —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.96.255.83 (talk) 02:04, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Caption box
I pointed another editor to a TAR page for trying to improve another article, and one comment was "what are all those icons for?" which is a totally fair question - for someone not familiar with the series, it is not obvious.

Thus, I've made up (for TAR12) the following box to be added at the top of the leg information section:

This would need to be customized for other races (yield, FF) as well as if/when the speed bump appears here. I've not added it yet, just want to get opinions on it. --M ASEM 22:48, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I like that look. Could you can make it collapsable, just to save space for regular readers? --Madchester (talk) 04:43, 5 December 2007 (UTC)




 * Can't figure out how to center it but this gives an idea of how it could collapse. --M ASEM 05:16, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Air travel destination   Detour    Roadblock    U-Turn    Pit Stop

Solve :), but if you want this in every season, i can do for you. --Aleen f 1 06:43, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I tried the margin trick and couldn't get it to take, thanks. If you want to go ahead and update all seasons (adjusting as needed) please go right ahead. --M ASEM  14:02, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I disagree with making it collapsable. It just means one more click required to be able to see the information. As to the "save space" argument... the first box presented was only one line. The collapsed box presented... is also only one line. How is that saving space? --Maelwys (talk) 14:46, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Air travel destination Detour Roadblock U-Turn Pit Stop


 * We could do something like this. --M ASEM 15:08, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I prefer the first (top) version. The horizontal collapsabile version takes up as much space without the info, or doubles it, and I don't care for the design of the vertical. Besides, the original version looks kinda cool. :) --Cbradshaw (talk) 05:48, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I prefer the vertical version better (everybody have their own views). Looks good but i don't like the way how the icons and the words line up. it looks like it's crammed. i prefer it being seperate like mine on the right. Looks neat. Aranho (talk) 07:06, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Although I still prefer the horizontal, the second Vertical version looks good, too. It is cleaner and easier to read, and it would save space, which is why it was made collapsible in the first place.--Cbradshaw (talk) 16:14, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The second vertical one isn't too bad, but I still prefer the original suggestion (that doesn't collapse). It takes up as little space as the collapsing vertical ones, but gives a nice neat appearance and you don't need to click a link to make it appear. But the second vertical collapsing one would be my second choice, if people insist on being able to collapse it. --Maelwys (talk) 16:49, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * You and I are on the same page--Cbradshaw (talk) 17:54, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm going to add the non-hidden version to TAR12 to see it "in action". Let's see how that works. --M ASEM  23:58, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

The original idea is best in my opinon and it looks nice in the articles. Given the minimal height of the key, I see no reason why it would need hiding. On this article it's barely taller than 2 lines of text. — CobraWiki ( jabber 05:52, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Notable race events
I'm thinking of modifying this section into "Production" and "Casting". I don't really like the point form format, because it just screams of trivia at the moment. And I'm the one who proposed the pre/post/in race headings in the first place... --Madchester (talk) 04:43, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I should chime in and say I like the improvement. I don't know whether it makes sense to move the sections around, but I like taking that out of the lead and combining it with the "trivia" about the race.  Definitely something to take to the other race seasons once we've established how to do it. --M ASEM  19:49, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Personally I don't really like it. :( DanielTAR (talk) 23:18, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's more in-line with the Wiki policy on trivia and follows a similar format as featured television articles like "Pilot (Smallville)" or "Through the Looking Glass (Lost)". I was the one who created the break-down of trivia into pre/in/post as a stopgap measure when there were complaints of trivia filling TAR articles.      It should have been replaced long ago. --Madchester (talk) 04:09, 6 December 2007 (UTC)