Talk:The Bigg Chill/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Ovinus (talk · contribs) 01:30, 18 April 2022 (UTC)


 * GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):  d (copyvio and plagiarism):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the ytral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:

Main focus will probably be parts I perceive to be promotional. I have a visceral reaction to Wikipedia company articles, so don't hesitate to push back if you feel I'm being unfair.
 * I totally get where you're coming from; I spent my earlier months on wikipedia cruft-cutting from corporate articles. The amount of words people can think of to say literally nothing is astounding. That said, I approached this pretty much the way I would any other article. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

That's all for now. I made some hands-on tweaks as well. Cheers, Ovinus (talk) 02:06, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "Diane Dinow, daughter Cary Russell, and son Michael Mendelsohn" Are the owners of a restaurant important enough to put in the lead like this? I think being put in History is sufficient
 * Why not? The founders aren't super notable, sure, but I think that they're pretty essential to the business. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "when they reported seeing as many as 1,000 customers on a weekday" See below
 * "rotation of conventional flavors" Er... maybe just "breadth of flavors" or "variety of flavors"? I don't really understand what you mean
 * Like below; having lots of flavors might mean that they have the trendy L.A. scene stuff like dragonfruit. So, "variety of conventional flavors"? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:58, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Ye, I like that
 * I'd recommend putting the Store section below the History section.
 * I think it looks a little awkward given the various section sizes, but I'd be happy to if you think so. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Fair point, let's keep it as is
 * "they could see as many as 1,000 customers a day" I don't know if we should be parroting their claims to popularity. I don't doubt them, but I'd prefer a third-party source on popularity if available, even if it's less quantifiable
 * It's published in the Los Angeles Times—I think it's usable if attributed inline, under WP:PRIMARY. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. How about as a compromise we remove it from the lead but keep it in the body?  Ovinus (talk) 05:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Is the origin of the name under enough doubt to be attributed to the LA Times?
 * I was a little jarred about not finding it anywhere else, but I'm happy to remove the inline attribution. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Not even on their own site, it seems... attribution is fine Ovinus (talk) 05:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "securing a US$100,000 loan (US$182,824 in today's money) from the First Citizens Bank in Sherman Oaks to open it" Not relevant
 * Why not? It says in the source that Dinow had quite a bit of trouble finding a loan, and it is actually relevant to the operation of the business. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:58, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Hm... okay. Well why is the particular bank that they chose important? Maybe just remove "from ... Oaks" as a compromise? Ovinus (talk) 05:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "Dinow also expressed a desire to open one more store for her son, Michael Mendelsohn, to manage" I don't really think this is relevant either; it doesn't really inform us of anything Ovinus (talk) 05:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I suppose so; tentatively cut. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:58, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "In 2020, the store collaborated with an Instagram streetwear brand known as Fam Los Angeles to produce merchandise" Not relevant, unless it's received more coverage than one sentence in an Eater article
 * Fair enough, that's cut. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:58, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "Conversely, The Bigg Chill received considerable social media encouragement, with one user commenting "I don't even live in LA but I want to show my support! I love Demi but I disagree with [Lovato] on this one"." I don't think the comments of a single social media user are important enough to be used as an example here. There's already enough context. I'd suggest just removing this sentence entirely
 * Yeah, the spike in coverage made due weight a bit of a challenge. I cut the line. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:58, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "designer frozen yogurt flavors" Not really a review comment, but... wtf is that
 * listen, it's los angeles. mass-marketed bourgeoisie. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * sigh Ovinus (talk) 05:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Are there any other sources which directly contrast Pinkberry and this store?
 * Didn't find much reliable sourcing on that in my research, but if you've got any... theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Cool. Ovinus (talk) 05:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "resistance to exotic flavors" So they have 400 non-exotic flavors?
 * I mean someone paid me a steady income to think of 400 flavors that couldn't be construed as bougie or exotic, I'd get 'em a list by tuesday. Like, you can have lots of red velvets and pink strawberrys without resorting to green tea passion fruit (like what happened in 2006). At least, that's how I interpreted the source. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:58, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. I'll have to visit this place if I ever visit LA... Ovinus (talk) 05:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * it's pretty good! i recommend getting the plain tart if you end up getting a lot; it cuts through the monotonous overdrive sweetness. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 07:07, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "despite its location in West Los Angeles" Is this original research?
 * From the source: Yes, it's technically in West L.A., but it's a UCLA institution! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Great. Ovinus (talk) 05:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * In the lead, "it has inspired at least one other frozen yogurt store" is a bit too much. In the body is okay, though
 * Happy to remove that if you think so. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * My rationale is that it isn't really the company's doing (only "inspiration"), and the store which took that inspiration isn't notable. But in the body for sure Ovinus (talk) 05:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the review, Ovinus! I've responded to everything, I think theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:58, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @Ovinus: all done :) theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 07:06, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Second, quick pass

 * 'rather than "Taro" or "Green Tea" ' Probably remove this... it's kind of a weird contrast if they're not selling them? Also, is green tea really a "designer" ice cream?
 * I mean, the point is that they're not selling them, right? It's not worth it to give an example? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 21:19, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * It's odd to me for some reason, but fair enough. Ovinus (talk) 01:22, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "characterized the ice cream as good, but not out of the ordinary" how about just "characterized the ice cream as not out of the ordinary"; I think it's more straightforward
 * Hmm, fair enough- changed theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 21:19, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "resistance to exotic flavors, commenting that they did not "sell out to yogurt trends" when a rival store was opened nearby" How does the second part relate to the first?
 * When the pinkberry craze was going on in 2006, part of that was a trend of exotic flavours; The Bigg Chill mostly chose not to follow along. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 21:19, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

That's all. I'll pass after we discuss the remaining comments. Ovinus (talk) 20:49, 18 April 2022 (UTC)