Talk:The Birds (film)/Archive 1

Character List
like other film articles, shouldn't this have a list of characters with their corresponding actor in two columns, or something to that effect? 65.185.191.51 03:07, 26 October 2006 (UTC)kickasskat

Random characters that were here since February 2007 have been removed. -70.20.127.71 01:39, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Sources seriously needed
This article, especially the Production section, needs to be sourced and quickly. The Production section has the appearance of original research, and risks being deleted if verifiable sources can't be found and added. Jim Dunning | talk  03:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Remake
For info - according to IMDb, the remake now has a 2011 release.  Lugnuts  (talk) 09:05, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Future
What should we do about this remake? There a few important details circulating around. We can't add a future section, it would be irrelevant. See A Nightmare on Elm Street and A Nightmare on Elm Street (franchise) and A Nightmare on Elm Street (2010 film). This is what happened over there, do we have enough details to start it's own page? ISTHnR | Knock Knock  &#124; Who's There? 23:50, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Here, add all updates to this sandbox first, once we get enough details we'll transfer it over, good for a couple of months anyway! Let's get some details together. ISTHnR | Knock Knock  &#124; Who's There? 23:54, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I've created a remake section, this will help for anyone looking for the new film and stop them form creating it's own article, it also helps the Platinum Dunes navigation box ISTHnR | Knock Knock  &#124; Who's There? 00:01, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Wait until there is some definitive information about a remake instead of speculation to update the article. You also have no source information listed. Sottolacqua (talk) 00:04, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I added the section back with more info ISTHnR | Knock Knock  &#124; Who's There? 01:47, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Encyclopedic tone
First, I should say that there be a "Reception" heading to cover both critical, and public response to help this article out. But much of the tone of the current article seems fan-based. Surely, there is much documented material to both make an article over a film be more authoritative, and also align itself with the wiki standard of covering movies? o0drogue0o 09:52, 20 January 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by O0drogue0o (talk • contribs)
 * Yup. Enjoy writing... The JPS talk to me  17:00, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Removed from Trivia section for lack of citation
The schoolhouse itself, which was built in 1873, and taught students until the 1950's, was mentioned to be haunted by many cast members. Tippi Hedren herself admitted that she felt at times that "the building seemed immensely populated...but there was nobody there." When Hitchcock was informed of this, according to Hedren, he was even more encouraged to film there. Since then, the building has been purchased by a family. They, as well as tourists, claim the appearance of ghosts, most notably of a young girl wandering the grounds and occasionally interacting with people. (Added by User 174.102.189.142 on 16 December 2010) The News Hound 18:33, 21 December 2010 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by The News Hound (talk • contribs)
 * Contributions to WP must be attributed to reliable sources. Content will be removed without reliable sources. IMDb is not considered a reliable source. The JPS talk to me  17:04, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Love-birds.
I'm wondering why there isn't a single mention of the love-birds in the plot description, or why there is no mention of birds at all up until a scene around the 25-minute mark where Melanie is attacked by seagull. Does the author of this feel it's not relevant that the two protagonists met in a bird shop, or that the pretence of Melanie's visit to Bodega Bay being to bring two love-birds as a gift to his sister is merely incidental? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.10.7.113 (talk) 01:07, 29 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Agreed The Lovebirds were certainly part of the plot, and they were confused with "strawberry finches" (house finches) at one point. David Spector (talk) 14:01, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Frank Baker's novel The Birds
http://www.labyrinth.net.au/%7Emuffin/wanted_for_murder_c.html perhaps deserves a mention. Шизомби (talk) 05:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


 * That is an interesting speculation. It needs reliable independent published research before it can be added to the article. David Spector (talk) 14:04, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Trivia
Unlike most other films of its era, The Birds does not have a music score or an ending in the conventional sense. The soundtrack was supervised by Bernard Herrmann; bird cries and wingflaps were played on an expanded Trautonium (called the Mixtur Trautonium) by Oskar Sala, assisted by German composer Remi Gassmann. The scene in which Hedren is attacked in the attic took a whole week to shoot. Real birds were tied to the actress and hurled at her. One bird actually cut her face just under her eye. The scene was so stressful for the actress that she had a breakdown. She has been quoted as saying that it was "the worst week of [her] life."

When the bird crashes into the window of the phone booth, it was not meant to break. Crew members spent an entire day picking glass fragments out of Hedren's face.

The uncredited radio announcer is Ken Ackerman, a longtime San Francisco radio personality.

Trivia taken from article. -- Soetermans |  is listening  |  what he'd do now?  12:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Hedren said on The Florence Henderson Show that Hitchcock and "the entire staff" lied to her, telling her that the same mechanical birds that were used in other scenes would be used in the attack scene in the room. David Spector (talk) 14:13, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't agree that this material is trivia. If I were not certain of immediate reversion, I would be bold and return all this backstory to the article. Perhaps if other editors vote here, it might help. David Spector (talk) 14:13, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Need Inventory of Bird Species
Being Wikipedia, we sorely need a section on the birds themselves -- species descriptions, realism of behavior vs natural birds, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.156.123 (talk) 07:40, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * See below for a beginning. David Spector (talk) 14:14, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Production section removed for lack of refs
I removed the entire Production section. It was completely without sources and may very well contain a lot of original research. On the chance some of it has some valid material, I'm relocating it to here as research fodder. Jim Dunning | talk  00:12, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Production
The film depicts a series of bird attacks on the residents of a Californian seaside village named Bodega Bay. In Daphne du Maurier's story, the birds attacked Britain, not California. The film was shot on location both in Bodega Bay and the nearby village of Bodega, the location of the historic school building used in the production, The Potter School. This was the second of Hitchcock's films to be shot in Sonoma County; the first was Shadow of a Doubt, filmed mostly in Sonoma County's county seat, Santa Rosa. Hitchcock also filmed a few scenes in downtown San Francisco, including his own cameo in which he walked out of the pet store with his own dogs.

Hitchcock was inspired by a report in the 18 August 1961 issue of the Santa Cruz, California Sentinel newspaper of birds exhibiting strange and sometimes violent behavior. This event was brought up in the film between the town residents in the Tides diner.

Hedren was informed that mechanical birds would be used for the terrifying and brutal attic scene. Instead, live birds were hurled at her by prop men for a week. When one nearly gouged her eye she became hysterical, collapsed and spent a week haunted by "nightmares filled with flapping birds". After visiting the set Cary Grant praised her as "one very brave lady".

Instead of a typical film soundtrack, Hitchcock had Oskar Sala painstakingly create bird sounds on his trautonium, which were then scored to the movie by Bernard Herrmann. No natural bird sounds were used. There is a very high-pitched soundtrack of electronic noise through the film which subconsciously adds to the tension experienced by the viewer. Just prior to the attack on the school children, as they run from the historic school, they sing an unaccompanied song. No musical score accompanies the film.

Hitchcock insisted that the film be without a final "The End", which further hints at the lyrical nature of the movie (called by Federico Fellini: "an apocalyptical poem"). Hitchcock reportedly did consider a final shot of the Golden Gate Bridge covered with birds, implying that the birds would not stop with their local attacks.

The highly-anticipated film was launched with an elaborate promotional campaign, inaugurated with the Hitchcock-engineered phrase, "The birds is coming!" Hitchcock appeared with birds on his shoulder on the cover of Life magazine. Hedren appeared on the cover of Look magazine with the line "Hitchcock's New Grace Kelly."

Hitchcock had also released a five-minute trailer featuring himself making a presentation on his "forthcoming lecture about the birds and their age-long relationship with man", giving numerous sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek examples "in which these noble creatures have added to the beauty of the world" such as cavalier hats, eggs, shotguns, and zoos. Actually footage from the film itself is not shown until the last minute of the trailer.

A 1994 cable television movie sequel The Birds II: Land's End featured Brad Johnson and Chelsea Field. Tippi Hedren also appeared in a supporting role, playing a different character than she did in the original film.


 * Much of this can be sourced. At the very least, not mentioning [The Birds (story)] anywhere in the article is a pretty serious flaw. 205.166.76.15 (talk) 18:42, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * It's probably better to leave such things in the article and tag it for sources than remove it, surely? is a good source for the trailer. Шизомби (talk) 05:17, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I would return this interesting and relevant material to an appropriate section. David Spector (talk) 14:16, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Special Effects
It would be interesting to cover the use of special effects in The Birds. This movie has over 300 special effects shot. It is notable for the use of the Disney-developped Sodium Vapor Process. Hitchcock disliked location shooting, so he used this process to shot close-ups of his actors on a sound stage where he could have complete control over the lighting, and then inserted these shots over location-shot backgrounds. He also used rotoscoping (for some of the bird shots), and innovative matte painting use (for instance for the aerial view of the town with the gas station fire). The last shot of the movie (the car slowly leaves the house while birds cover the ground) is a composition of multiple elements shot separately, because the production did not have enough birds. This is very well covered in the documentary All About 'The Birds', included in the Hitchcock Masterpiece Collection DVD set.
 * For anyone who wants to tackle this topic, there's a large amount of useful information in this article: The Making of Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds. Davepattern (talk) 07:52, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


 * References used in WP must be reliable. Wikis and blogs are usually not considered reliable. David Spector (talk) 14:20, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
 * With respect, Kyle B. Counts' article is the most in-depth journal article on the film to date and was a primary source for Tony Lee Moral's recent extensive book on the making of the film. If you need details about the making of the film, those are the two primary published sources and are considerably more reliable than Tippi Hedren's misrememberings. Davepattern (talk) 22:50, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Ravens or crows?
In the script, several species are mentioned, including herring gulls, crows, swifts, and owls. But in the movie, most of the aggressive birds were gulls and crows. In an interview on the Florence Henderson Show, Tippi Hedren said that gulls and ravens were used. I thought perhaps she might have been confusing ravens and crows, but she went on to say that she had ravens residing in her California Shambala wild animal preserve and even imitated and described their vocalizations. These matters might be described reliably in books on Hedren or the movie. David Spector (talk) 13:51, 19 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I just watched the movie and I could only see crows and gulls (not sure which species the gulls were) as well as sparrows in the chimney sequence. I did not see any other species except in the pet store at the beginning. I certainly did not see any ravens -- ravens are really huge, much bigger than crows. Invertzoo (talk) 03:03, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Obvious and unnecessary
Hello, Gothicfilm. If Mrs. Bundy was mentioned anywhere in this article except in the cast list, I might agree. Until she is, I think my addition belongs here. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:04, 12 January 2014 (UTC)


 * What you have there is trivia. Considering all the academic writing that has been done giving interpretations to this film, calling your entry "Obvious and unnecessary" is quite accurate. It does not belong in a Reception and interpretation section, as it is stating the obvious, not interpreting anything. Per WP:BRD you should not be further WP:edit warring over this - you now need consensus to get this in. - Gothicfilm (talk) 19:48, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
 * See ya. I was rather rudely reverted, then I stated my reason for my addition on this talk page, and was reverted again. You seem to be the guardian of your version of this article. But you don't even appear in the top ten contributors. Just to be clear: I won't be back. -SusanLesch (talk) 22:52, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Clarification on domoic acid poisoning as cause of real-life "attack" Hitchcock read about in 1961
This article implies that scientists understood at the time the cause (domoic acid poisoning) of the strange behavior in 1961 in Monterey Bay of the diving sooty shearwater birds. It uses as a source an article that states the opposite: at the time, scientists thought the birds were disoriented because of fog and light conditions in the atmosphere. The domoic acid poisoning theory was proposed 30 years later when brown pelicans in the same area (Monterey) began acting strangely.

Here's the links and quotes:

Wikipedia uses this article as a source, but misstates what the source actually says:

http://www.santacruzpl.org/history/articles/183/ "The most learned explanation of the bird tragedy came this morning from Ward Russell, museum zoologist at the University of California....Often when they are disturbed while feeding they will rise in flocks from the water. A blinding fog covered the coast last night and this morning. 'They probably became confused and lost and headed for the light,' he said. The only light available was the street lights and overnight lights in some homes and businesses."

This source discusses the same incidents:

http://www.livescience.com/17713-hitchcock-birds-movie-algae-toxin.html On Aug. 18, 1961, a local newspaper reported that thousands of crazed seabirds were sighted on the shores of North Monterey Bay in California. The birds, called sooty shearwaters, regurgitated anchovies, flew into objects and died on the streets.... The cause of the outbreak in 1961 was not identified. Then, 30 years later, disorientation and death struck brown pelicans in the same area.

"It looks like attacking, but it's actually crashing into walls, because they are very disoriented," Bargu said.

But this time, it was found that the birds had eaten a toxin, domoic acid, produced by multiple species of Pseudo-nitzschia, which are diatoms, a type of algae. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.227.88.253 (talk) 16:45, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Sequel and remake
Please advise if it would be wrong to delete this entire section for lack of relevance. The unrelated sequel mentioned is precisely that, and then there is discussion of a projected remake that has and looks likely to amount to nothing. Perhaps I would be breaking an important rule by deleting this airy guff1f2 (talk) 12:18, 27 May 2017 (UTC).

15/02/2019 Hello, guys, I am part of the Queen Marys Group and I have just been working on updating and sorting the sequel and remake part. This is my updated version, which is going up later today. Please let me know any issues.

An unrelated sequel, The Birds II: Land’s End was released in 1994. It was a directed-to-television film. It’s director, Rick Rosenthal removed his name and used the Hollywood pseudonym Alan Smithee. Tippi Hedren appeared in a supporting role, but not as her original character.

There is also a film called The Girl (2012) from HBO/BBC which gives a version of the relationship between Hitchcock and Hedren. Filmstudent101 (talk)

Spoof
In the 1980's cartoon "The Animanics" featuring the "Warner Bros" [& Warner Sister] these was a segement of 3 wise guy pigeons who deceided to go to Hollywood...were they end up as luckless "stunt doubles" on the set of "The Birds"! {This is an old running cartoon gag of dopes who get the worst of it as stunt doubles-and was featured in a Bugs Bunny/Daffy Duck and a Tom and Jerry cartoons}. A hint that the dopey birds are on a Hitchcock film is a cartoon version of Tippy Hedron and a cartoon version of "Norman" {from the movie "Psycho"} who always stands in the background.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.5.93.225 (talk) 15:42, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Development
In the recent film students' editing of the article, the relationship between the plot of The Birds and the real-life events of Capitola, California has been completely deleted. I believe this material, properly cited, should be retained, unless there is some evidence that this information was incorrect. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:10, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Reception and interpretation
We are planning on removing unreliable references in this section. We are also planning on dividing 'Reception and interpretation' into two separate sections; 'Reception' and 'Themes and style'. We will be developing the new 'Themes and style' section using reliable and scholarly references.

Bibliography:

Hitchcock, Alfred; Gottlieb, Sidney, ed. (1997). Hitchcock on Hitchcock: Selected Writings and Interviews by Alfred Hitchcock. California: University of California Press. ISBN 978-0520212220

Paglia, Camille (1998). The Birds. London: British Film Institute. ISBN 0-85170-651-7

Raubicheck, Walter; Srebnick, Walter, eds. (1991). Hitchcock's Rereleased Films: From Rope to Vertigo. Detroit: Wayne State University Press. ISBN 978-0814323267

Tking19 (talk) 15:52, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Production
We are planning on developing each subsection within 'Production' by replacing less useful and unreliable references with more reliable and scholarly ones. We are also planning on creating a subsection about the mechanical and live birds used in the film.

Bibliography:

du Maurier, Daphne (2004). The Birds. London: Virago Press. ISBN 978-1-84408-087-8

Hitchcock, Alfred and Gottlieb, Sidney, ed. (1997). Hitchcock on Hitchcock: Selected Writings and Interviews by Alfred Hitchcock. California: University of California Press. ISBN 978-0520212220

Moral, Tony Lee (2013). The Making of Hitchcock's The Birds. Hertfordshire: Kamera Books. ISBN 978-1-84243-955-5.

Maxford, Howard (2002). The A-Z of Hitchcock: The Ultimate Reference Guide. London: Batsford Ltd. ISBN 0-7134-8738-0

Paglia, Camille (1998). The Birds. London: British Film Institute. ISBN 0-85170-651-7

Raubicheck, Walter; Srebnick, Walter (2011). ''Scripting Hitchcock: Psycho, The Birds, And Marnie. University of Illinois Press''. ISBN 978-0-252-07824-8.

Tking19 (talk) 15:53, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Premiere and awards
We are planning on replacing unreliable references in this section with more reliable and scholarly ones.

Bibliography:

Maxford, Howard (2002). The A-Z of Hitchcock: The Ultimate Reference Guide. London: Batsford Ltd. ISBN 0-7134-8738-0

Tking19 (talk) 15:53, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Sequel and remake
We are planning on removing outdated and incorrect references to remakes in this section. We are also planning on replacing unreliable references with more reliable and scholarly ones.

Bibliography:

Maxford, Howard (2002). The A-Z of Hitchcock: The Ultimate Reference Guide. London: Batsford Ltd. ISBN 0-7134-8738-0

Tking19 (talk) 15:54, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Controversy
We are planning on creating a 'Controversy' section that documents Hitchcock's alleged mistreatment of Hedren during the making of the film, by drawing upon a wide range of sources.

15/02/2019 Hi guys, controversy has been added and cited. --Filmstudent101 (talk) 11:45, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Such an overlong section on an "assaultive controversy" that Hedren claims never happened in this film? --2A0A:A540:E55C:0:7451:6260:A39B:26CA (talk) 23:37, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Bibliography:

Evans, Alan (October 31, 2016). "Tippi Hedren: Alfred Hitchcock sexually assaulted me". The Guardian.

Hedren, Tippi (2017). Tippi: A Memoir. New York: HarperCollins Publisher. ISBN 9780062469038

Hiscock, John (December 24, 2012). "Tippi Hedren interview: 'Hitchcock put me in a mental prison'". The Telegraph.

Mason, Fergus (2014). The True Story Behind Alfred Hitchcock’s The Birds. CreateSpace Publishing. ISBN 9781494953812

Schaefer, Joy C (April 29 2015). "Must We Burn Hitchcock? (Re)Viewing Trauma and Effecting Solidarity with The Birds (1963)". Quarterly Review of Film and Video. 32: 331

Tking19 (talk) 15:51, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Melanie's car
Melanie's car is mentioned without further information. It is not an average US-made car, but a rare (only 102 made) and probably rather expensive British import, an Aston Martin DB2/4 Mk I Drophead Coupé, a convertible, which is excellent for filming. During her drive to Bodega Bay, the birds a leaning over like motorcycle riders in corners, a quite notable scene. Also, the screeching tyres apparently sound like the attacking birds later on. As a convertible, the car does not offer as good protection as a metal roof, adding some suspense at the end of the movie. --87.141.27.100 (talk) 23:27, 29 May 2021 (UTC)