Talk:The Carlyle Group/Archive 1

NPOV?
Why are there only links to criticisms. This doesn't seem so NPOV to me.

this part looks like it was written or modified to refute all criticims, and sounds like it was written by an employee (i might be wrong!!). Kmanoj 12:20, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Is the Carlyle Group evidence of the, to me, unholy alliance between BIG business and BIG government? I am sincere with my question.Obbop 18:16, 25 November 2006 (UTC) To Obbop: Yes It is!!!!!!!!!

Stephen Norris
I noticed that there is no mention in the article of Stephen Norris, one of the 2 original progenators of Carlyle. I have trouble writing for this one, NPOV-wise, would anyone like to work on it? Cain 19:56, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I have addedd a mention of him, but alot of work is still needed on the early history of the group. The Great Eskimo Tax Scam, Caterair, Prince Alwaleed al Saud + Citigroup; all of these are in need of discussion. Cain 20:59, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Book mention
I removed this from the article : One of the few books written about Carlyle Group include The Iron Triangle: Inside the Secret World of the Carlyle Group by Dan Briody. and stated that "one link to Briody's article is enough publicity for him, I think". Fuzheado added the link back with "putting book back in - it is still NPOV to mention a book exists". I wasn't removing the link on the basis that the book mention is not NPOV, I haven't read the book, but given that the only other reference article is written by the same author (Briody), I don't think it's appropriate to have ever external reference (aside from the group's page) be to the same author. If all of the external links are critical, then NPOV would also be an issue. I think the book mention should be removed, especially since his article seems to just be a summary of the book (the title is basically the same). Daniel Quinlan 02:50, Aug 3, 2003 (UTC)

However, we differ on the last point -- there's no reason why the book mentioned should be taken out simply becasue there is an external link by the same author. For this topic, it is an organization not very well known, which explains why there is no avalanche of information to choose from. I believe the Briody book is the only book out there on Carlyle, so to remove it would be dubious. - Fuzheado 03:03, 3 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Unless you're trying to push his perspective of Carlyle... you do seem to be fond of Bush administration conspiracy theories. Do you believe your edits are really intended to be neutral about the Bush administration? Anyway, I added a newspaper review of the Briody book, but I still think two links is being a bit too generous to Mr. Briody. Daniel Quinlan 05:56, Aug 3, 2003 (UTC)

And adding entries regarding PMCs, most of which thrived under Dems and Republicans alike, doesn't either. - Fuzheado 13:34, 3 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I think the review of the book at least provides some balance. Daniel Quinlan 22:29, Aug 3, 2003 (UTC)

Bin Laden connection
On the other hand, given how much the Saudis purchase from the US in military equipment, it isn't such a shock. - Fuzheado 13:34, 3 Aug 2003 (UTC)

It seems to be a claim mentioned solely by people with an axe to grind against the former or current Bush administrations; when it is mentioned, the relative size of their investment or that this practice (wealthy people from other countries investing in private funds) is not at all unusual. The article seems to be factual and approaches NPOV, but still feeds conspiracy theories by including a hand-picked set of political connections. The article should list every person with a similar position at Carlyle and every wealthy family with a million dollar investment if it really were NPOV. Daniel Quinlan 22:29, Aug 3, 2003 (UTC)

But you have to agree that the moment you hear the word bin Laden, its bound to raise a flag, even if it involve only two cents. For example, i came to know about it from this article. 


 * I disagree that every person and investment needs to be listed simply because the more suspicious connections are the subject of criticism. I find it HIGHLY relevant that the Bin Ladens, Bushes and Saudis are all financially connected. HIGHLY relevant.  The criticism is what is relevant, not every financial deal, political connection, etc.Laikalynx 04:58, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe The Carlyle Group also owns Monsanto.


 * Until someone gets the info about all these other investors and posts it, doesn't it make sense to list the investors we do know of? Isn't Bin Laden worth mentioning? Let's not let the limited information on Carlyle's investors stop us from providing the info we do have because we're trying to maintain NPOV, particularly when the information is clearly compelling, relevant to understanding at least one view of Carlyle group, and possibly meaningful. The weasel words and the original research warnings are not necessary, at least for the Controversy section. And, I changed some of the weasel words in the Controversy section, although the meaning remains largely the same -- how else are we to provide the information, which is pertinent, about how an issue or thing is perceived by people?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.5.70.65 (talk) 08:17, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * How do we know that some Bin Laden-family members have kept in touch with Osama, if there are no sources cited. If there are no sources for this claim, it should be deleted. It could potentially be libellous.82.156.100.120 21:58, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Perkin Elmer
I've been expanding our article on EG&G (help always welcome), and I'm surprised to find we don't have an article on Carlyle subsidiary Perkin Elmer (or should that be Perkin-Elmer?). I might get round to it, but a stub there would be nice, if anyone knows stuff about it. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk July 8, 2005 17:06 (UTC)

Link cleanup
Instead of included all these pages as external links, for them to be appropriately included, they need to be used as sources for [namely] the "Criticism" section of the article. I'm moving them here if someone wishes to do so...— DMCer ™  10:43, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * What Did Eisenhower Mean When He Warned of a Military Industrial Complex? Take a Look at the Carlyle Group An interview with Dan Briody
 * The Carlyle Group purchases Stop Carlyle web domains and The SLZ Group AG., in French.
 * The Carlyle Group at hereinreality.com, with many links.
 * VPRO Tegenlicht: Carlyle Group (uses Flash), documentary created by Dutch VPRO TV program Tegenlicht; in Dutch.
 * De IJzeren Driehoek (Exposed: The Carlyle Group) by VPRO Dutch television High-speed internet connection. Note: The first minute and forty-seven seconds of this program is broadcast in Dutch, The remainder is in English.
 * Sourcewatch article
 * "Greed of the highest order and the worst privatisation since rail" by George Monbiot, on the privatisation of Qinetiq, the British government's defence research service, giving the Carlyle Group around £351m on their 31% share bought in 2002 for £42m. The Guardian, February 14, 2006
 * "Bush special envoy embroiled in controversy over Iraq debt" by Naomi Klein, about a deal in Kuwait. The Guardian, October 13, 2004

Controverisial legislation
Controversial how? Why is the word controversial even there? What's the controversy? I get the distinct feeling this has been edited by unsuitable editors. Someone should check that site that indentifies IP's on wiki. 130.243.214.218 (talk) 17:54, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

CoreSite Merger
It has been suggested that the text from CoreSite needs to be merged into this article. The "consensus" of the the AfD for CoreSite was to merge that article into Carlyle Group because of Carlyle's controlling interest in the company. However, there was no consideration of the target article, only an easy resolution to the AfD. There is no appropriate spot in which to merge one relatively small portfolio company into the main body of the article about a firm that controls many dozens of companies. A brief mention might be worthwhile in the context of this article but this is not a merger and really not a fair outcome for those who thought that there would be a merge result. Therefore, I would suggest that the AfD was not closed properly since the merge was never discussed here nor is it possible to satisfactorily merge the articles. |► ϋrбan яeneωaℓ  •  TALK  ◄| 19:50, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * As you feel the AfD was not closed properly, and I as closer disagree, I suggest you submit the matter to deletion review. Sincerely, Skomorokh  19:57, 2 September 2009 (UTC)


 * It wasn't decided so much as the decision of the closing admin at the AFD. If you disagree, I suggest following Skomorokh's advice and bringing it up at DRV. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 04:04, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Depending on the details, a DRV may be speedy closed. There is a recent discussion at WT:Deletion review that covers some of the considerations. WP:N3D may be helpful. I'll try to review this case and provide specific advice. Flatscan (talk) 06:01, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

George w Bush
GWB is mentioned under "political figures" but there is no ref what so ever to what he ever did for this company. For this reason his name was remowed.

--Franke 1 (talk) 21:19, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Investments
The Carlyle web page had a lot of information about their private funds, so I added more information about their investments (region, areas, and industries).

I also found more information about the bin Laden family investment: that they left (as opposed to being kicked out) and that their investment was only $2 million dollars. I don't believe they qualify as major investors in when The Carlyle Group has nearly $16 billion under management (so they owned about 0.013% of the total portfolio) and the bin Laden family also has billions. Major compared to me, surely, but not major compared to George Soros and even small venture capitalists. Daniel Quinlan 05:56, Aug 3, 2003 (UTC)

Hi, in the WSJ Article it says about the $2 Million: "[...] a foreign financier with ties to the bin Laden family says the family's overall investment with Carlyle is considerably larger. He called the $2 million merely an initial contribution. [...]"

Therefore, I believe that the Wikipedia article should not contain the statement that the Bin Laden's were only a minor investor. It might be wrong.

See the WSJ-Article here: http://web.archive.org/web/20010927113410/http://interactive.wsj.com/articles/SB1001546348608890000.htm

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