Talk:The Children of Húrin

Untitled discussion
Can anyone find any more detailed sources about this? In particular: how much new stuff? I rather thought he'd sworn off writing new stuff. Morwen - Talk 14:45, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


 * So did we all, but apparently he's been keeping this a secret for the past three decades. With this announcement some of the rather oblique references in HoMe (particularily regarding The Wanderings of Húrin) begin to make sense: I think Chris, upon the discovery of Wanderings, decided to complete the Narn. None of the usual places has info yet on the content, but I think it's a sure bet that it will draw heavily on the Narn and the Wanderings. -- Jordi· ✆ 15:12, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not surprised he's been careful about it. Given Tolkien's outline, the sort of writers who do the extended Star Wars stuff could produce something that would sell.  But something worthy?  That has to take a long time and be very difficult.  I am however looking forward to it. --GwydionM 15:28, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


 * "keeping this a secret for the past three decades"? That figure only refers to the time since the publication of the The Silmarillion - it seems that CJRT has only been working on this for the past year or so, building on various other work done in those 30 years, most of which, of course, was to do with other stuff, rather than the "Children of Hurin". The popular press have been widely and inaccurately reporting this as "taking three decades to write". That statement is not in the article here, and we should keep it that way. Carcharoth 13:45, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Who or what are you replying to?
 * By the way, I have gone through various articles and removed references to TCOH as a work "written and not completed" in 1918, which is an obvious misinterpretation of the press releases. I think the press has taken the fact that Tolkien's first Túrinssaga was written down in 1918, and as usual misinterpreted it. In truth of course Tolkien was continually revising the saga until his death, as we've already seen in the Silm, UT, and HoME. I look forward to CJRT's book, a complete and comprehensive narrative seems hard to do, and it will be interesting to see what is included and what not. -- Jordi· ✆ 13:59, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I was replying to you, as I quoted what you wrote. Sorry if it wasn't clear. Carcharoth 20:25, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

The official website says he hasn't written any new stuff, which rather implies it will be resting heavily on texts not previously presented in Unfinished Tales or History of Middle-earth. Should be interesting. Morwen - Talk 08:59, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the version of the tale in the Silmarilion is pretty much complete in that it has a beginning, the key events are there, and there is a resolution to each strand of the story. The other versions which exist have varying degrees of detail in different parts and aspects of the tale, with some inconsistencies or conflicts with the Silmarilion version and some areas of the broader story not covered at all. Chris has not had to write any new material (and if he did I'd personally throttle him) but has had a difficult job in compiling and editing a version which flows smoothly, is stylistically consistent, does justice to each key element of the tale and doesn't contradict the broader story of the Silmarilion. Next up: Beren and Luthien --JamesTheNumberless 09:08, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Elves of the First Age
I think the book will have an interesting effect on the mass of fans, those who haven't read The Silmarillion, never mind the Histories. They'll see Elves of a very imperfect sort, notably the bigot Saeros. --GwydionM 15:35, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I would be worried about anyone reading this book without having read the Sil first. Lord of the Rings fans will find a very different world from that which they know and will miss crucial background stories to Doriath, Nargothrond and the whole war of the Silmarils. --JamesTheNumberless 09:00, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Reception
How has the book been received by critics and by the Tolkien fanbase? There seems to be little on the subject in this article. --JamesTheNumberless 08:55, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Wondering the same. None of the controversy reported in the media is mentioned here, and only glowing reviews have been cited with critical or neutral ones ignored: http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/fiction/article1639071.ece (UK The Sunday Times), http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070418/FEATURES05/704180408 (Detroit Free Press), http://www.smh.com.au/news/books/fans-queue-for-final-tolkien/2007/04/18/1176696888059.html (Sydney Morning Herald). http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2007/04/17/hurin/ (Salon) It didn't take long to find these. Wiki is supposed to be balanced, but this seems like PR astroturfing to me. I suggest quoting the spectrum of reviews, not just the glowing ones. Frondfall 02:56, 23 April 2007 (UTC) Why are all the reviews those from the US, when it's a British author?Jatrius 11:46, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Germany
Simultaneously (April 17) published in Germany as Die Kinder Húrins. Worth mentioning? --128.176.233.115 16:31, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

-- It has also been published in Portugal as Os filhos de Húrin.

Title page within the book...
Gives it's name in both the English and Elvish, openly. The beginning of this page should identify it by both names that the author and editor retained for it. --Chr.K. 12:33, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

References in other media
I have also added this in the discussion on the Túrin Turambar-page. I noticed the game Castlevania: Symphony of the Night contains at least two weapons from Children of Húrin. One is a black sword and is directly referred to as "Mormegil". The other is an icebrand which is said to belong to "Mîm". Should such things be added to the page? Cyanid (talk) 17:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Literary Themes
I know this is a fairly new work, and as such there has not been much scholarly review of it, but I think a "Literary Themes" section would add a great deal. The Biblical themes (which Tolkien certainly intended) are obvious. In many ways it resembles the book of Job, as the primary antagonist--Morgoth/Satan--does everything in its power to make the protagonist miserable, but without physically harming him. In addition, there is also the Old Testament theme of mortals failing to heed the counsel of the wise (angels and God in the OT, elves and Melian in the Narn), and this following their own counsel consistently leads to disaster.

I would love to add something about this to the main page, but I'm unsure if it's appropriate to do without citing sources.

Synopsis
It seems weird to have the synopsis written in the past tense: I can't think of a single synopsis I've ever read which isn't in the present tense. I'm tempted to change this one, but I imagine that there are a few Tolkien fans who are quite protective of his works so I'm checking in here first to ask if anyone has any objections to me doing so Dom Kaos (talk) 16:34, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * No objections, so I have done so Dom Kaos (talk) 16:20, 10 April 2009 (UTC)


 * WP:MeS 1.9.1 and state that it should be written in the past tense. Double sharp (talk) 11:28, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Synopsis length
Following recent edits, the synopsis is now at least twice as long as necessary. -- Elphion (talk) 01:41, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Illustrations

 * (quote) "Alan Lee, illustrator of other fantasy works by J. R. R. Tolkien (The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings) created the jacket painting, as well as the illustrations within the book."

This makes the interior illustrations an afterthought. The infobox unusually identifies Lee as cover artist rather than illustrator. Is the number of interior illustrations unusually small? Is there another rationale? --P64 (talk) 22:23, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:16, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Sketch Map of Beleriand.svg

Notability of Morwen Eledhwen
This is currently a redirect here. pl:Morwena Eledhwen was recently kept after finding this academic source, which arguably provides some SIGCOV. It's just one source and en wiki requires 2+ generlaly, per GNG. @Chiswick Chap for a possible to-do project. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 23:16, 11 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Certainly sounds marginal at best, but could earn her a mention somewhere. Hurin is the article that needs work from someone interested. Chiswick Chap (talk) 02:39, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Number one or number two?
This source seems to indicate that it reached number one for one week:https://archive.nytimes.com/query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage-9B0CE0DD133EF935A35756C0A9619C8B63.html The current ref in the article goes to the most current book list.Hardyplants (talk) 10:23, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Many thanks, done, the NYT archive does better than Archive.org in this case. Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:16, 28 August 2023 (UTC)