Talk:The Cloud of Unknowing/Archive 1

Removed copyright material
I removed material copied and pasted from www.contemplativerudder.com. This website contains material purportedly related to The Cloud of Unknowing, but the relationship is indirect. — DavidMack 00:23, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Referenced
Came across this title in Don DeLillo's "Underworld". --Bostoneire 15:05, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Links needed: Book of Privy Counseling
Can anyone find a link to an online version of the original (Middle English) of The Book of Privy Counseling? If so, please add it. Health Researcher (talk) 07:48, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Reference needed
Quoted material, rather than being from a direct translation, seems actually to be from page 73 of "Where only Love can Go, A jouney of the soul into The Cloud of Unknowing" by Lou Craddock.
 * Thanks, and let me clarify: the full quote you are referring to is the one beginning "Our intense need to understand will always be a powerful stumbling block to our attempts to reach God ..." which is tagged "reference needed". Health Researcher (talk) 19:04, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I can't find anything closely matching in my edition; I think it's likely a paraphrase of the material around chapters 5 or 6. Is 'stumbling block' really a Middle English idiom? (I'm unqualified to say, but I find it unlikely.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.150.66 (talk) 17:25, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much, that's a very important clue! On closer inspection, the author of the book is actually John Kirvan. That is, a 1996 book by him with the title you gave is online. It has no Google preview, but is viewable HERE at Amazon. It is ISBN 978-0877935919. As you suggested, the quote now on the page appears on page 73-74. I agree with you that this is not from the Cloud itself -- rather, it seems to be a "Day 8 meditation" offered by Kirvan (an L. Craddock seems to have once posted it online HERE). When time is available, someone should update the page to take this information into account. Although Kirvan's quote is nice, I don't think it counts as notable by WP standards, so I think it should be removed. Health Researcher (talk) 19:04, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I have removed the Kirvan quote, substituting a representative tract from the text itself. 131.111.150.66 (talk) 16:47, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Great quote! Nice edits to the page text too. Thanks. -- Health Researcher (talk) 20:19, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Noteworthy item, low quality treatment
This is an important item in the history of contemplation and meditation, but the treatment here is far less than adequate. I added some ref tags, but the article needs much work to tell the reader what the work contains, instead of just overdosing on quotations.

And why all this emphasis on listing all the editions, when the substance has been ignored?

On a more general note, there are all these Underhill items showing up all over the place, overemphasizing it. I think it is pretty over-rated - pun intended. This article is in sad shape. History2007 (talk) 00:00, 26 November 2011 (UTC)