Talk:The Concert in Central Park

Copy edit request
Hi. I'm reviewing this page per the request put in with the Guild of Copy Editors. I see a couple of things that aren't clear, and as I come across more, I'll post them here:
 * "Planning and rehearsals for the concert took about three months in a Manhattan theater.[6] The three weeks of rehearsal..."
 * Which is it: three weeks or three months? Three months of planning, and three weeks of rehearsal? Specify.
 * Corrected to three weeks. I think it was a mistake.-- GoP T C N 21:01, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

* "Furthermore, Simon was suffering from calcification of tendons in one of his fingers caused by an injury, and could not play guitar for two hours."
 * A FA reviewer asked about this, and it never got addressed. It's unclear: he couldn't play guitar for two hours in a row, or he had to wait two hours before he could play? Dementia13 (talk) 05:23, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Edit: the context suggests the former, but you can't go away and assume, "Oh, the reader will understand". No, as the writer, it's on you to make it crystal clear.
 * Found the reference and fixed it. "Two hours" was a direct quote and should have been paraphrased: he wasn't so much trying to be specific, he just meant that he couldn't play a full set. Dementia13 (talk) 02:55, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

* "The military rhythm of "50 Ways to Leave Your Lover" was replaced with a swing Latin arrangement that included brass.[13]"
 * This phrasing seems awkward, because "swing Latin" is not a style or genre. Is it a Latin-inflected swing arrangement? Is it Latin jazz with a swing feel? Would Latin jazz or Afro-Cuban jazz be a more appropriate link for that?
 * Edit: I found the reference on this one, and it uses the word "swinging". To call something "swinging" is much less specific than to say that it's actually performed in a Swing style. "Swinging" can just mean that it grooves: I've seen it applied to Molly Hatchet, a far cry from the Louis Armstrong or Benny Goodman implied when you say "swing". Dementia13 (talk) 08:33, 14 July 2012 (UTC)


 * "Despite the need to adapt to Simon and his style, Garfunkel enjoyed some of the songs, and was glad to perform a duet version of Simon's "American Tune".[4]"
 * This is a weak sentence, and it's hard to fix without access to the reference source. "Garfunkel enjoyed some of the songs" is too vague, it needs to say something more specific. The first part of the sentence is an idea that's good to include here: it was difficult for Garfunkel to adapt. Unfortunately, there really doesn't seem to be a reason why his difficulty adapting would affect his enjoyment of "some" songs or his desire to perform "American Tune", so the sentence is not cohesive: the two parts don't fit together. Dementia13 (talk) 07:57, 14 July 2012 (UTC)


 * "more than at Woodstock,[16] the seventh-largest concert attendance of all time.[22]"
 * Which is the seventh-largest: this or Woodstock? Dementia13 (talk) 08:39, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The source [22] doesn't cover this comparison anyway (according to it, both had similar numbers). I am not sure, if a comparison with Woodstock is appropriate at all, they have two vastly different concepts. GermanJoe (talk) 14:49, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Woodstock could be an appropriate comparison due to its cultural significance to the generation of fans with whom Simon & Garfunkel are most popular. There's also this: the world saw Woodstock as a pleasant surprise, because a half-million youths gathered for a concert, and the event was a success. Attendees enjoyed themselves, and against observers' fears, the event didn't devolve into a chaotic, bloodthirsty riot. Now, roughly a decade later, a similar-sized happening is transplanted from that rural setting into the middle of a park with the reputation of being a good place to get mugged, in an already chaotic New York City. Plus, it was open to the public, not a paid concert as Woodstock was. The potential problems are very similar, and if a riot developed, a crowd of that size would cause far more trouble in the city. There's a strong parallel between the successes of the two events, and this point could be developed. This simple comparison of attendance figures doesn't add any real information, and it kind of changes the subject: the article's about the Central Park concert, why now start talking about this other thing? I'm leaning toward cutting that bit because it's unclear and apparently unreferenced, but that's not to imply that the comparison doesn't belong. The idea has potential, if handled properly. Dementia13 (talk) 15:35, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * There are two problems with the "seventh-largest" statement: first, that statement becomes obsolete every time a larger concert is held. Second, it doesn't indicate where this concert ranked on that list at the time. That might be a more relevant fact, and never needs to be updated. Dementia13 (talk) 15:47, 14 July 2012 (UTC)


 * "At twilight, the backing band went onstage,"
 * Who was the backing band? They were part of the event, they should be named. Dementia13 (talk) 08:41, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It had no names :) It consisted of session musicians.-- GoP T C N 21:01, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I misread that as "opening act". You're right. Dementia13 (talk) 20:57, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

* "In total, Simon & Garfunkel played twenty songs: "
 * Again the inconsistency regarding how many songs were played: is "Maybellene" the one left out? Dementia13 (talk) 13:55, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The question came up at FA too. It's probably "Late in the Evening" causing the problem. The song was played again as a reprise. So while 21 "numbers" were performed, only 20 completely different "songs" were played. GermanJoe (talk) 14:49, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * That makes sense, but "Maybellene" is still unaccounted for. Maybe that's why an earlier version of the article gave 22 as the number of songs. The medley puts two songs in one number, and brings the song count back up to 21. Dementia13 (talk) 15:12, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

* I completely agree with the FA reviewer's statement that the cquotes in "Events" are distracting. They break up the layout of the page, and stick out like a sore thumb. You say that they don't hurt anything, but they don't add anything, and the added distraction does hurt the article. Dementia13 (talk) 15:07, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Manual of style states that this was an inappropriate use of cquotes, but a good place to use blockquotes. I did the substitution, and it looks much better. The quotes now fit nicely into the page, and don't disrupt it. Dementia13 (talk) 03:37, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


 * The paragraph that deals with the interruption of "Johnny Ace" is a problem. The wording is vague, and I don't have access to the references. "Associations" is used twice, but it's not clear what it means in this context. It seems that you're trying to use the word in a different sense than it's commonly used, and that a different word or phrase would better express what you're trying to say. Also: "Simon was not afraid" -> specifically, of what? Dementia13 (talk) 22:21, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
 * "Associations" also presents a POV issue, because it reflects a personal observation, it indicates that someone is giving a personal interpretation of what the action meant. It stands to reason that the incident alarmed observers, so there must be a published article that says so. Try a Google News advanced archive search, and look for articles published in the following days or weeks. Did I see some JSTOR tags in your references? If you have access to that, you must have access to a database that contains New York TImes articles. Dementia13 (talk) 03:34, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Done the latter. I don't know how to reword associations, and I don't really think it is a big issue. -- GoP T C N 21:01, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I can access the NYTimes database and I have JSTOR, just let me know.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:31, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It is a big issue, because it makes no sense. Dementia13 (talk) 21:01, 24 July 2012 (UTC)


 * "The live recording of the concert was released five months later, on February 16, 1982."
 * This might be an opportunity to add something: isn't it common to mention what formats an album is released in? LP & cassette stand to reason, but there might be some interesting oddball formats like reel-to-reel tape or audiophile LP involved. Dementia13 (talk) 03:44, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It was mainly re-released in CD format, but also in LP and CC. I added this.-- GoP T C N 21:01, 21 July 2012 (UTC)


 * "It was also successful in seven other countries."
 * More specifics are warranted. Dementia13 (talk) 03:53, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Added two examples-- GoP T C N 21:01, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

The issues stricken are the ones I was able to fix, but the others still need addressed. The copy edit is otherwise complete. Dementia13 (talk) 03:30, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your copyedits and comments. -- GoP T <sup style="color:#8EE5EE;">C <sub style="color:#8EE5EE;">N 21:01, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Track list - set list ?
One usage should be selected without mixing: I'd prefer the "set list" (the article is about the concert as main topic), but any consistent decision would be fine. GermanJoe (talk) 06:44, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Track list (live album): The 2 songs not included in the album should not be in the list (aside from the explanatory remark). A track list, that includes missing songs not on track, is just confusing the reader. Durations should be album durations. The tracks should be listed following the album.
 * Set list (concert): All 21 performed songs incl. reprise need to be on the list. Durations as in live event, if possible (or album durations, if live values are not available, with a small note about it). Performed songs (not "tracks") should be listed following the live event.
 * The cancelled songs are indeed available on the live album, but without duration. Regards.-- GoP <sub style="color:#8EE5EE;">T <sup style="color:#8EE5EE;">C <sub style="color:#8EE5EE;">N 10:26, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Quote from the article: 'The songs "The Late Great Johnny Ace" and the reprise of "Late in the Evening" were not included in the live album.' (emphasis mine). The track listing of www.allmusic.com shows 19 tracks. I am confused, how they could be "available" on the same product then. But anyway: if the situation is so confusing, it needs special clarification in the article to be accessible. GermanJoe (talk) 10:48, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * My mistake. The reprise was not featured. I removed the two songs. Regards.-- GoP <sub style="color:#8EE5EE;">T <sup style="color:#8EE5EE;">C <sub style="color:#8EE5EE;">N 11:12, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Success in "other" countries
''The album sold more than 1,270,000 copies in France, where it was certified Diamond. It was also successful in seven other countries, such as France and New Zealand.'' Would that be the other France that isn't France? TheOneOnTheLeft (talk) 08:49, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

wording pickiness
The first sentence currently reads: "The Concert in Central Park is the first live album by American folk rock duo Simon & Garfunkel". This reads a little oddly to me (specifically the word "is"). Either of the following sound like more natural English to me: "The Concert in Central Park is an album by" / "The Concert in Central Park was the first live album by". I know we like to use "is" wherever possible, though, so how about the following:
 * The Concert in Central Park is a live album by American folk rock duo Simon & Garfunkel, released in February 1982 on Warner Bros. Records. It was their first live album, recorded in September 1981 at a free benefit concert in Central Park, New York City, where the pair performed in front of more than 500,000 people.

I think this sounds a bit more natural. I'm going to go ahead and make the change - I just wanted to discuss it here preemptively, I guess, since it's today's FA... --Fru1tbat (talk) 19:33, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * ? I don't understand why you don't understand it. Please clarify. Regards.--Kürbis (✔) 21:21, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not that I don't understand it. It's that it seems to me that most people would naturally say "was", not "is", in that context (and apart from the inclination to say "<x> was an album" because it's an old album, I believe). To me the following two sentences sound natural: "Concert in Central Park is a live album by Simon & Garfunkel." and "Concert in Central Park was the first live album by Simon & Garfunkel." I find it doesn't read quite right to say "Concert in Central Park is the first live album by Simon & Garfunkel", as the addition of the word "first" nudges the meaning somewhat toward referring to a specific past event (i.e. "when it was released, it was the first"). Or maybe I'm just being overly picky, hence the section title... I don't have a major issue with it, but I tried to reword it in such a way that avoided the problem entirely. --Fru1tbat (talk) 22:41, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I still don't understand... I can say I am the first superstar, not I was the first superstar. The same here. It was the first live album is totally incorrect; it sounds like that something happened in the past but nothing changed since then. The record is still available everywhere. Regards.--Kürbis (✔) 08:54, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think it sounds totally incorrect at all. As for your example, when you say "I am the first superstar", it sounds to me as if there are no others. "I was the first superstar", on the other hand, indicates to me that others have followed. Maybe this discussion will shed some light on the issue. The question there is not exactly analogous, but there are some similar points discussed, and it is clear that not everyone agrees on exactly what the usage should be. --Fru1tbat (talk) 16:33, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

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Erra
Tour name "Summer Evening Tour." Airto Moreira also appears as drummer. -Inowen (nlfte) 00:55, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Attendance
The source for this statement "Later estimates determined that the maximum number of people who could fit in the park space was 48,500.[3]" is an article about Paul Simon solo concert in 1991. Can we use it to claim that the same number of people could fit 10 years before? There could have been various changes made for the area designed for concerts.2A02:8308:B106:8A00:B110:9E41:5EE6:D2D9 (talk) 09:29, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

A duo, not a group
I think it is improper to call a group something made up of just two people, which is actually a duo. Vernel222 (talk) 03:16, 20 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I agree it's better to introduce them as a duo, which I changed. YouCanDoBetter (talk) 06:50, 20 April 2023 (UTC)