Talk:The Dark Tower (series)/Archive 1

Sean William Scott as Eddie? never
 * Sean William Scott is not mentioned in this article. Tuf-Kat 22:42, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)

If they were to make a Dark Tower series of movies (not likely) I think Jason Lee would make a good Eddie.

Did the Great Old Ones speak English? The rex

Yes, they did.

The High Speech
Does anyone know what is the difference between the High Speech and the Low Speech? I'm slightly confused.

Elix

I think High Speech is like elvish, where the Low Speech is like English


 * No, in the second book it says that the High speech resembles English, although letters are dfferent. The language differences are not used, like everyone can understand each other, except from some words.

Where do you base that elvisch speech on? - Redmess

High Speech seems to be a cultured version of English with many loanwords from unknown languages (perhaps Amerindian languages). Low Speech is probably a low-class High Speech with a smaller syntax. The rex

Low and High speech are like english in that they are presumely "Germanic Languages", although technically not because "Germanic Languages" don't exist in All-world, but that's spliting hairs. The language difference is used once in the Keystone world when Roland speaks with Calvin Tower about selling the lot, but it is not used often. 01:48, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Chronology - Song of Susannah
Has anyone looked at that section?

If so, is it supposed to be that confusing?

-->I've found the whole entry to be confusing...I think it needs some major overhauling altogether. It's confusing for me, and I've read the books (many times). How do you think someone not familiar with the series encounters this entry? You want a good example of what this page should look like? Check out Nineteen Eighty-Four or The Lord of the Rings. --Drew First 17:17, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Jack Mort
I offered a deletion request for Jack Mort a while back. Somebody made it redirect today, but the old data wasn't directly pasted in, and I don't think it should be lost, so I am putting it here for somebody else to maybe verify all the data is in the article. -- RevRagnarok 02:29, 9 December 2005 (UTC) Jack Mort appears in the second book of the series titled The Dark Tower II: The Drawing of the Three. When Roland enters his head/mind, he discovers that Mort is the one responsible for the accidents that befall not only Susannah but that he is planning on pushing Jake into the path of oncoming traffic. Sensing that this man is a monster, Roland has only one option : kill Jack Mort and 'Draw' the actual third 'person' from the dueling personalities of Odetta Holmes and Detta Walker, Susannah (later to be added) Dean. Roland does this by forcing Jack to throw himself under the very train that took Odetta's legs and tricking Detta to look into the 'doorway' and acknowledging both personalities.

I've read the whole series twice, but I don't recall where it was verified that Jack Mort was Walter... can anyone give me specifics? Thanks Airbrush 07:03, 22 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Jack Mort isn't Walter. When Jake is pushed under the car and dies and appears in Mid-World, he mistakes the "man in black" (Walter) for the man (Jack Mort) who killed him because they have a superficial resemblance. Roland later kills Jack Mort by forcing him under a subway train. Walter (aka Randall Flagg) is killed in the last book by Mordred. (He faked the leftover bones from the long palaver in the first book.) There was, however, something about Walter possessing Mort to push Jake, but basically Mort is a different guy from Walter. Foday 08:13, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Keystone world(s)
The way I read it, there were two "keystone" worlds (another twinner thing, do ya), what could be considered "our" world, and Roland's world ("Whereas the tower is represented by a rose on some worlds, an immortal tiger on others...Here it is itself, the Tower"-Fake Stephen King). I seem to remember Susanna mentioning something to this extent as well. Can anyone verify or care to correct?


 * You are certainly correct, there are two keystone worlds as you describe. The quote you give however is not the relevant quote, but I'm pretty sure the correct one can be found in one of the last books. (5 or 6). -- Redmess -- 4-2-2006


 * There are two keystone worlds, but King leaves it to the reader's imagination if ours is real or "fake" like Eddie's orginal world. Actually, ours might be "fake" as there is no Holmes dental company or Tet corporation. Foday 08:18, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Jake Chambers' earth is referred to as keystone earth i believe during the action at Thunderclap.

All-World (Roland's World)
Isn't it misleading to call All-World "Roland's World"? Mid-World is Roland's "home-world", and in itself seems separate from All-World, or the Keystone World, although it is "closer". Mid-World is where the baronies, Gilead, Mejis etc. is located, and I'm not convinced that the two are the same. If they are, then why is it called Mid-World? Passing through a thinny or similar seems to be required to get from there to e.g. thunderclap and the other places in the Keystone World. TH 08:47, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Technically, Mid-World is a part of Roland's world, but it's not where Gilead or Mejis are found. Those are found in In-World; Mid-World is, "one of the large kingdoms which dominated the earth in the times before these. A kingdom of hope and knowledge and light--the sort of things [the gunslingers] were trying to hold onto in [Roland's] land before the darkness overtook [them] as well." (Waste Lands p 164). All-World seems sometimes to mean the totality of In-World, Mid-World, End-World, Thunderclap, Can-Ka No Rey, and even Garlan; other times it seems to be a term more synonymous with "multiverse."Drew First 17:16, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Roland's is from Gilead, which is in In-World, not Mid-World.

Roland speaks of how his world ended long ago in Wolves of the Calla

Jamie DeCurry
I seem to recall a description of Jamie DeCurry stating that he had a large birthmark that covered part of his face. I can't remember, though, where I saw that or who mentioned it. Anyone remember the source for that? Drew First 16:38, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Sussanah Dean - Odetta Holmes / Detta Walker
I think that all three personalities should be displayed for the character list, not just Dean. Anyone else agree? CompIsMyRx 22:43, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
 * They are in Susannah because Susannah is the merger of the Odetta and Detta personalities. — [  Mac Davis ] (talk)
 * It is one character with at least three personalities. To avoid confusion, we could call her the Lady of Shadows, as in Walter's tarrot game. - Redmess 14:36, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I worry about spoilers. I think Lady of Shadows may work. Because the sections on Sussanah are marked spoiler, but LoS in the template doesn't reveal anything. &mdash; RevRagnarok  Talk Contrib 14:48, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup
It's high time to seriously overhaul the Dark Tower (series) article. It's a mess, with far far too many detailed spoilers, a synopsis that isn't written for readers unfamiliar with the books, and focuses entirely on extended plot descriptions that are better suited to pages on the individual novels. There's nothing on the writing and publication histories, critical reaction, cultural impact, or good explanation of its impact on the King-multiverse for new readers... just for a start.

Suggested reading for editors interested in fixing this are: Harry Potter and Star Wars. The Lord of the Rings article is also very good, but the Potter and SW series have to cover an amount of material more closely aligned with Dark Tower. Star Wars & LOTR main article doesn't bother with a "characters" section, and the Potter article offers a quick spoiler-free 'graph on the most major characters. Gutting and merging the character articles would be a good place to start, yes? Chris Stangl 03:58, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I think we really want this article to look like Nineteen Eighty-Four. Lord of the Rings and Star Wars are a little bit different in that there is a lot of popular culture around them. In this article, the main piece is probably the Outline of the series, providing a synopsis of each book. If we get like Nineteen Eighty-Four, we're good for featured. — [  Mac Davis ] (talk)

Dark Tower connections
What, exactly, ties the books to this series?

Also, in his book The Running Man (writing as Bachman), General Atomics is a prominent tech company. It (or at least G-A) is mentioned in the DT series. PrometheusX303 12:42, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

http://www.thedarktower.net/connections/

http://www.thedarktower.net/connections/essay/

http://www.thedarktower.net/connections/roadmap

As far as I know the only Bachman book related to this series is "The Regulators," which is also connected to its companion book, "Desperation." Ruthfulbarbarity 21:02, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the links. I was wondering why the linking elements weren't mentioned in the article, but it looks like it would be difficult to be concise with them all.  I may be mistaken about the General Atomics link. PrometheusX303 21:57, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't mention it.


 * There's actually a link to TDT Wiki hosted by the folks at thedarktower.net, which is usually the best source of information on these matters.


 * At least, so far as available online sources are concerned.

Ruthfulbarbarity 03:15, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


 * "Don't mention it." Sorry.  Already did. PrometheusX303 13:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

- I see that the connection to Skeleton Crew/"The Mist" is listed under Wizard and Glass. I always thought the connection to be the creatures seen below Blaine in the land outside of Lud. Weren't the giant birds in "The Mist" pinkish pteradactl-y creatures, or were those just the bugs? If you don't find that to be the connection, where do you see it in DT4? Thanks! Rjeso 19:49, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if you ever got an answer to your question, and I don't have my copy of DT4 handy, but if you recall from "The Mist", the bugs and pterodactyl things werent the only things in the mist. There were also the Tentacled squid-like beings, the big spiders and of course, as the were driving to Hartford, the Creature that was too tall for them to even see anything but the leg that almost crushed them. Hope that helps, or I could be completely wrong. Could I get someone to back me up or correct me? DaemonKnight 08:50, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Glossary
I moved the glossary to The_Dark_Tower_%28series%29/Glossary. It does not belong in the article, but possibly in conjuncted articles. — [  Mac Davis ] (talk)
 * Until it finds a better home... &mdash; RevRagnarok  Talk Contrib 13:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Part of the Ka Tet - My 2 pennies' worth
I have just finished the DT series and probably this is the best story I have ever read.

I found that more than with any other novel or series of novels, I found myself being "drawn" into the characters' world. And felt, slightly, that I have been living 2 parallel lives for the last few months.

I think this has been due to several facts:-

Realistic multidimensional characters AND development thereof.

Eg Roland becoming "human" again after years of barren living both physically and mentally it seems. And always struggling to do the right thing for his Ka Tet AND The Tower.

Eg Eddie kicking his addiction, meeting Susannah, etc.

Fantastic cross-world storyline and moving from genre to genre with (apparently) graceful ease. This was remarkable, in that at once we were reading what seemed like a Western which developed into a Mafia story, Psychic Thriller, Quest Adventure, Vampire Horror, Crazy yet highly compelling.

I laughed when King himself brings up the subject in a conversation, I think between Roland and Eddie (please correct me if I'm wrong) where they discuss genres in stories and I think Eddie says it simply is "not done" to switch genres half way through a story line. Nice touch Mr King.

I think we have soooo many adventures, palavers and meetings along with these guys that we can only treat them as friends at the end and feel loss and grieve their departing.

Still so much remains unanswered. It's great. Like what really happened to the rest of the gunslingers between the period of returning to Gilead from Magis, what led to the battle of Jericho Hill?

What happened to Kort? He was a guy wasn't he? What a great character! I understand he was poisoned perhaps?

What happened during the years between the battle of Jerico Hill and the period of the books themselves.

Novels could be written to fill in the gaps and answer these questions. Fantastic. I hope that either Sai King or others can work on this.

Thank you Mr King for giving us these rich experiences. These other world than this one to live in for a brief time.

I feel I have been enriched by knowing and having Roland, Susannah, Jake, Eddie, Oy, Pere Callahan to call my friends for the last 4 months.

Re: Ending - YES I did feel it was a little underdeveloped. But perhaps Mr King was tired and wanted to go to bed (speaking metaphorically). I am with him 100% though - the journey is more important than the end. Perhaps Ka dictated the ending to Mr King eh? Perhaps that's just Gan's song huh? Perhaps I just did not want the story to end :-( . I read the endings now need to move on...

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dhaesler (talk • contribs) 05:52, 7 August 2006.

I wasn't exactly pleased with the ending either, but it just felt like it was the right ending, whether you agreed with it or not.DaemonKnight 09:35, 11 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Glad to have yet another DT Junkie among us :) Take care --Xasf 11:17, 7 August 2006 (GMT+3)


 * We have our own template, so I figure there must exist a fair number of us.

Ruthfulbarbarity 21:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * And yes, Cort was poisoned, presumably by someone enlisted in the service of the Crimson King, or his chief factotum, i.e. Randall Flagg/Marten.

Ruthfulbarbarity 23:24, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * You can get find a lot of other fans at forums such as [www.thedarktower.net]. --Ellissound 08:43, 18 August 2006 (UTC)


 * There's also a link at the bottom of the page, IIRC.


 * http://www.thedarktower.net/

Ruthfulbarbarity 22:23, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

DT.net looks really good, but it may take a while before your account is verified by the staff. Just a warning, as I can see that it's been nearly a month since new accounts were last accepted.

Books in the Series: Everything's Eventual
I'm deleting this. Yes, Little Sisters in in there, but it's not one of the seven main books. Ellissound


 * Technically speaking, the yet to be released comic book series shouldn't be on the list of books in TDT series either.Ruthfulbarbarity 22:26, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I'm removing it.--Ellissound 02:57, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * We could make a branch-off article with books that are linked to the series. - Redmess 14:40, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Stupid Question
The article states that "Guardians were based on novels like Shardik (for the bear)" I'm sure that Eddie said in wastelands that it was named after the evil rabbit in watership down, not the novel (see, stupid question) --Tower Junkie 13:28, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't have my copy with me today, but I think Eddie mentions Watership Down because Shardik was written by the same author. Looking at the wiki entry for Watership Down, I'm not spotting any evil rabbits named Shardik there. Deafgeek 08:47, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Deafgeek is right; the evil rabbit in Watership Down was General Woundwort. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 05:07, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Shardik certainly has resemblence with those rabbits. I cant find the page where Eddie says this though, does anyone know? - Redmess 15:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Eddie states that"...I associate it with rabbits. Isn't that nuts?" on page 35 of the Plume paperback edition(Ch 1 Pt 9). Gaffa 10:48, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Shardik is a totally unrelated book from Watership Down written by the same author. It I believe is about a bear. The reference to rabbits is a reference to the author of Shardik/Watership Down.

Frustrating Ending
I was very frustrated when I read the ending of the last novel. I think I actually cast the book aside with a disgusted harumph. My usual ritual upon ending a Stephen King book is to flip back to the first page and read it again. I never read DT7 a second time. But in the years since I HAVE read it, I have come to terms with the ending: it's not as if King didn't give us enough hints all the way through (KA is a WHEEL, he kept saying). If you can accept the ending as King's tribute to the very American-Ray Bradbury style, it's not as angering. rjhenryRjhenry 07:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Comic Series
shouldn't the comic series come before the gunslinger and even before Little Sisters, seeing as it happens before both?Blu elph44 00:20, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I was thinking the same thing, but was hesitating because it's currently going over the exact same events as we saw recalled in Wizard and Glass. Anyway, I've moved it now. –Gunslinger47 02:28, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I dont think thats the best idea because even though story wise it may happen before, it wasnt written until much later.-Metastophles

The "re-" subtitles
For Wolves, King added the "19" at the start of the book and also the "Re-something" subtitle, and went back and added them to the previous volumes too. What are all the subtitles?
 * http://www.thedarktower.net/wiki/Main/Subtitles –Pomte 14:28, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Too Much on Music?
If you ask me, the music section is overwhelming in its size (combined with the graphics, especially). Do we really need a track listing?


 * No. If the album is notable enough for its own article, it would have a track listing there. The excessive quotes should be cut down as well. –Pomte 21:34, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * So what are we doing here? We deleted the entire section? I dont remember it being excessive, but having images would be unnecessary. I still think a small section should be worked on though, to at least show that this is a very popular text. (Cablebfg 19:39, 13 June 2007 (UTC))

Revised editions
I would like to know which books of the series were revised and re-edited, and when. --200.70.145.219 03:03, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * He only revised the Gunslinger, and that occured around the time Wolves of the Calla came out.--CyberGhostface 13:40, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

The Calla Speak
shouldn't the dialect of the Calla have a spot on this article? Blu elph44 00:20, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I am working on the Calla's own page. I can add a section on language in there when I have a chance. Leafschik1967 (talk) 01:19, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

A List of References to Our World?
Due to the large number of references to our world (ie. books, songs, movies, etc.) throughout the story I think it would be interesting to create a list of all of them. Would this deserve its own page? Should it be done at all? Blackngold29 (talk) 00:34, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Thedarktower7.jpg
Image:Thedarktower7.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 12:53, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Carrie?
Carrie is specifically referenced in Song of Susannah (particularly as King's first published novel)it is therefore referenced, at least by title. Shouldn't it be included in the section about references to King's other works? —Preceding unsigned comment added by DirtySocks85 (talk • contribs) 21:08, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


 * It is not referenced by title, but it is refered to, when John Cullum says he didn't see the film adaptation (of Carrie) because it looked too bloody. Not referenced by name. Later in the series, when Dinky Earnshaw is having a fit, he says to Jake "you don't know what it's like to be Carrie at the prom" or something like that. Easily a reference to the protagonist, and also used by name. You can add it, if you want. --MwNNrules (talk) 23:00, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Poem
See the Tortuous (Poem) Could someone please give me that direct "Quote" from Roland?

Thank You,

Frank... joeealand@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.123.223.177 (talk) 02:03, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

The Stand connection
Shouldn't the Stand pretty much have a connection in everyone of the Dark Tower books? Cause the Man in black (Randall Flagg) is mentioned in every book. 71.7.106.244 (talk) 23:25, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Request for comment on articles for individual television episodes and characters
A request for comments has been started that could affect the inclusion or exclusion of episode and character, as well as other fiction articles. Please visit the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(fiction). Ikip (talk) 11:05, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Reading Order Questions
Instead of reading all of the other books that have tie-ins, big and small, to the series, could one in theory JUST read the Dark Tower novels, 1-7, on their own?

--Theotherness 10:42, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


 * That's what I did. Reading the other books after reading the series may even disappoint you. –Pomte 13:12, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Read the others in tandum (for example, read Hearts in Atlantis before Song of Susannah, the Stand before Wizard & Glass) (142.33.70.38 20:51, 17 April 2007 (UTC))


 * In short, yes. Everything that needs explaining is explained as if you were a new reader.  Nothing a new reader could miss plays a vital role in the narrative. –Gunslinger47 21:08, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, I'd have to say no. The first two books I can see a new reader hop in with little trouble. By the third and fourth books, the references to other novels might be confusing. By the time you read the last three, when major characters from other novels pop in, if you're not at all familar with the previous works you're bound to get lost or at least feel like you're missing a piece of the puzzle.--CyberGhostface 21:12, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I hadn't read "Insomnia" "Salem's Lot" or "Eyes of the Dragon", but I never felt like I missed out on anything. For instance, Callahan's sizeable recounting in Wolves provides quite enough backstory, as far as that goes.  I could go and read those books now and maybe experience a geeky sort of "A-HA" moment coming across a Dark Tower nod, but all these works are self-contained and independent of each other.  And, really, it'd be like saying you have to read "IT" to understand "Dreamcatcher".Artemisstrong 22:24, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The only similarity with It and Dreamcatcher is the locale. A lot of important DT mythology occurs outside the actual series. For example, a lot of questions about Flagg are answered if you read EotD and The Stand--CyberGhostface 01:07, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not so sure how many questions are answered by The Stand. Flagg in that book seems to live a fairly independent life outside of the DT continuity.  But I think our discussion here just illustrates that this issue is ultimately particular to each reader.  But the original question raised was whether there is a correct "reading order".  And I think that's where I'm coming from, that while the supporting books may have supplementary facts or whatnot, that beyond just reading DT 1-7 there is no particular reading order.


 * I agree with Gunslinger47 on this, in that King wrote it to be accesible to new readers, providing the information that was germane to the storytelling. If one were to go back through the books, they'd see frequently the ka-tet coming upon some artifact from another story (say the note addressed to Mother Abagail attached to the minivan window at the beginning of Wizard) and commenting either out loud or internally that maybe there's more to it, but it doesn't really involve them.


 * But, for those planning a sort of completists journey through Mid-World, I'd think the best route to take would be a chronological one. Knowing how King works, you'd get a fairly accurate account of how the story mutated through time.  And the great thing about this timeline method is it is right there on the "Other Books by This Author" pages (at least in the softcover editions I have) with the DT related materials in bold type (at least up until Song of Susannah... on the DT 7 they're all in bold).  I'd also add Danse Macarbre and On Writing to those lists (both books I read before reading DT) and while they are nonfiction, I find their subject matter almost identical to the DT, in that Danse talks about what influences and moves horror and how it works, and On Writing gives a reader the real-life account of the car crash of 1999 (also, both books have pieces about King's Uncle Oren, who also makes an appearance of sorts in DT).


 * And one more thing [I know I'm being a bit of a windbag here :)] but doesn't Dreamcatcher feature a whole sequence taking place during a "Pennywise" attack that occurs between the children's and adult's stories in IT? Isn't that where they discover Duddett's power and help save a potential clown victim?


 * I forgot about the It connection, although that was a one-scene cameo.
 * As for the questions concerning Flagg...his whole thing about "My life for you!" and having fondness for Trashcan Man makes a lot more sense if you read The Stand. Also, him being born and raped in Delain explains why he hated the place so much in Eyes of the Dragon.
 * The series isn't impossible to understand without prior reading, but it is a lot more clearer once you've read prior novels.--CyberGhostface 17:25, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with you here. I think it's similar to, say, reading God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater before reading any other Kurt Vonnegut Jr. (as I did) and encountering Kilgore Trout for the first time.  It definitely enriched the story, but it wasn't until I read Breakfast of Champions that I really "got" the character.


 * So does this page need a "reading order" list (which I'm thinking is yes), and if so, what order should it go in?-- Artemisstrong 19:45, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Personally I think its this (DT in italics, Non-DT in bold)
 * The Gunslinger
 * The Eyes of the Dragon
 * The Drawing of the Three
 * The Stand
 * The Waste Lands
 * Insomnia
 * Wizard and Glass
 * 'Salem's Lot
 * Wolves of the Calla
 * The Talisman
 * Black House
 * Song of Susannah
 * Hearts in Atlantis
 * Everything's Eventual
 * The Dark Tower
 * By reading it this way, you should be caught up with everything once you get to the specific book. There are other connected books that I considered putting up there but decided against. I put Black House and Talisman up there but those two I'm not too sure about.--CyberGhostface 21:28, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Then there is this from the Dark Tower wiki: http://www.thedarktower.net/connections/roadmap. - Artemisstrong 21:05, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah but a lot of the books they list aren't important to understanding DT, such as Skeleton Crew, Desperation and The Regulators. They contain connected information (like the usage of the Language of the Dead) but nothing like recurring characters from DT.--CyberGhostface 21:51, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

The Dark Tower series is only enriched by King's other works. By no means should there be a concrete "reading order" other than the obvious (semi)chronological 1-7 series. For example: While the inclusion of the characters from Hearts in Atlantis and Everything's Eventual may initially confuse the Dark Tower reader, Dinky and Ted both explain how they found themselves in Blue Heaven, and what they are doing there. Any information beyond this is purely supplemental. A reader who has not read Hearts in Atlantis may wonder, "Who the hell is Bobby?" when Ted mistakes Jake for him, but we have to remember that these characters are supposed to have lived entire lives outside what is written by King, but anything pertaining to the current story will be explained well enough. King obviously expected that some readers of DT would be well versed in his other works, what with the whole Patrick Danville Prophecy and Whatnot, but again, this is more or less trivia than anything else. Bishoppendragon (talk) 18:49, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

film adaption date
does aney one know whean the film adaption is going to be relesed Sckay 21:39, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Nope, and probably not for a long time, since there's barely any news on it. Here's King's earlier response. –Pomte 01:32, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * And it's almost two years later from this original post and there is still very little news about it. Abrams has even said that there has still not been any work on it and probably won't be until after Lost in finished in 2011. Danleary25 (talk) 01:20, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

This Dark Tower movie and tv series seems to be something that we all know will be delayed almost to infinitam. Almost seems too hard to do. The HBO series idea is a good one as they take on a lot of things that otherwise seem too hard and they do a fine job of them. With the newer technology, a "B" effort would be good enough to get our book on screen. I am not sure if King expects Lord of the Rings? Some of Kings other works resulted in TV series that were good enough, but not great. I am sure Stephen King is difficult to deal with and that may be the reason for the reluctance to work on this. From my end, I just want to see something on screen. HBO could start this thing and get it going and have a decent series, though the last thing I want is for them to do a great job on it and get us all reared up and then cancel the thing after Book 3. I do not think The Stand was the greatest film, but it was entertaining and good enough.

A quibbling point
... But "Childe Roland" isn't an epic. I changed it to just say "poem." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.252.254.128 (talk) 07:42, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I would even suggest, despite King's statement that Browning was the key inspiration (the author is not the sole authority, or foremost authority on his own text), that T.S. Eliot's The Wasteland has as much, or more, to do with The Dark Tower series than does Childe Roland. Eliot's poem is based upon the idea of the Arthurian Legend as a fertility myth, and the grail as a symbol of feminine fertility. Eliot himself took this idea from Jesse Weston. Similarly, Roland is a character charged with renewing, or saving the world, in a repetitive, cyclical quest (though the tower is phallic). I would say, however, that The Dark Tower series appears to be a more hopeful adaptation than does Eliot's own poem. However, I believe that listing the influences for this work is a huge, perhaps hopeless, task. There are references to Dante, Conrad, the Bible...etc. etc. I would suggest that all of the cannonical western texts are present in King's work....as well as works, songs, etc. which could or will be cannons to the future. I would then suggest that what King has borrowed most from Eliot is this concept of collage. King's layering of references and allusions mimics Eliot's own style. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.82.101.229 (talk) 22:33, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

You do realized that phallic means penis shaped right? What does that have to do with the quest being cynical? You say 'though' as if it holds any meaning in the aforementioned statement, which by any rational thought process it doesn't.

When the poster above says "though the tower is phallic," s/he's referring to the grail being a symbol of feminine fertility, which ties into the themes of renewal... which would not be represented by a penis shape. I think it's quite clear what was meant.

Overview article
I was thinking of an overview article, writing a few rows of each book of the series, the connected short story, the comic books, in chronological order. To give those less fanatic a good base. Is that a good idea? Quispiam (talk) 08:32, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
 * A good idea if you can tackle it. It doesn't have to be a separate article, just a section here. Jmj713 (talk) 12:26, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Inspirations for the series
I agree with the article's list of inspirations for the series but I was surprised to see that "The Waste Land" by T.S. Eliot was not included. The poem has a strong influence on plot, environment and characters of "The Dark Tower" and it is even quoted and directly referenced throughout the series. Although I am a longtime Wikipedia reader, I'm just starting to contribute so I do not want to make any changes to the article itself but I'd like to see what other people think about this. Enigma1375 07:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd say Eliot's The Waste Land MUST be included in any list of influences/inspirations for DT for the simple reason that King himself cites it as an inspiration in the forewards to several of the seven books. The third book of the series is not named "The Waste Lands" by coincidence. When citing influences on this work, I'd be sure to mention ALL of those stated by the author himself. ROG 19 12:35, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Should Marvel Comics' Doctor Doom not be included in the list, perhaps under "Books" or "Other"? As I recall, the character is mentioned specifically in Wolves of the Calla as a visual inspiration for the Wolves, alongside the Harry Potter series and Star Wars. 91.111.95.14 (talk) 00:37, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

How about Don Quixote. I see many similarities to this also... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.157.234.201 (talk) 02:16, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Connections section
Can we get some citation for the connections section, because I've read some of the works mentioned as being connected, and can't see where the links are. Where are The Eyes of the Dragon and The Gunslinger cross-referenced? Couldn't we just list all the works which are connected with reasons, and could we cite them? If we list it like this,

It- (list reason)

The Eyes of the Dragon- (list reason)

et cetera, et cetera, et cetera,

where we only mention a book once, and give reasons, we could save a lot of redundancy. The current one is much less helpful, and kind of confusing. --MwNNrules (talk) 23:14, 29 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I think 'It' was meant to be Dandelo, the emotion vampire thingy. 115.166.35.75 (talk) 04:53, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Heavy Metal Influences/Demons & Wizards
In my opinion this section looks more like a general Demons & Wizards description and should be cut, some sentences could entirely be deleted: "Schaffer writes the music and Kürsch writes the lyrics. The band's first full-length release was in 2000, with the self-titled album Demons & Wizards." Other sentences seem to be just copied from a Demons & Wizards description: "Most of the songs of the album have some relation to The Dark Tower, a series of books by Stephen King." That doesn´t fit in the article at all, you are reading an article about the Dark Tower series, so you will probably know what it is and who wrote it by the time you reach this section. Song descriptions: Some of them don´t fit in either. The alleged relations to The Dark Tower in the songs "Beneath These Waves", "Dorian" and "Lunar Lament" don´t seem very convincing, especially because no sources are cited. Also, Hansi Kürsch is sometimes referenced to simply as "Hansi", that sounds unprofessional, after all Mr. King isn´t being mentioned as "Stevie" in the article either. Sorry for my english, but I felt that I had to point out these things. 84.113.163.112 (talk) 11:32, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Film Adaptation
Is it too early to create a separate article for the prospective film? Is there enough anticipation for the adaptation to warrant a page already, considering that the news has been reported by three sources, including King himself announcing that he found people he trusted to translate the story? &mdash;Tonyfuchs1019 22:28, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that there is enough information available yet - is it even known if it will be a film or a television series? Title?  Plot? --Mus Musculus 12:25, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The short-article in EW #923 said "film franchise," with Lindelof mentioned as prime suspect for the screenplay. The same article also said, however, that DT wouldn't be Abrams and Co.'s next project, and there seems to be no indication as to when the production might get rolling. &mdash;Tonyfuchs1019 14:34, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I say hold out until there is more substantial information than "prime suspects" and whose project it isn't. –Pomte 22:47, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * why? why? why? dammit! Why make a movie of every book that gets any attention, The dark tower is too good to be made into a movie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.108.73.47 (talk) 09:25, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Soon though: http://www.stephenking.com/promo/dark_tower_film_and_tv/news_tracker/dark_tower_pr1.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.245.172.136 (talk) 23:33, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

No Criticism Section?
I and everyone I know that's read the series thought that the story quality diminished with time in spite of awards going only to the later novels. Shouldn't the article mention that, or are we in the minority? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.91.136.242 (talk) 01:30, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Eight books in the series
The first paragraph says that there are 7 books in the series, but there are 8. The eighth book was released in February 2012. Alanasings (talk) 17:17, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

'The Shining' tie in
While not exactly making a connection to any characters or plot, the film adaptation of 'The Shining' is mentioned in The Drawing of the Three. I was wondering if that constitutes a legitimate tie in in the section on it. --DirtySocks85 05:51, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I laughed when I read that. I like it when authors reference themselves. As far as I tie-in goes, it is a reference to something in our world, to me that is enough for a tie-in.Blackngold29 (talk) 00:28, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't the "shine", as Holloran calls it be akin to the "touch" that both Jake and Alain exhibit in the DT series? that in itself is enough of a tie-in for me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edherrmann (talk • contribs) 02:38, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Refferences to and from other works of fiction
Please add references here.

1) In Command & Conquer 3: Kane Edition, Act V on the Nod side, Kane says: "there are 19 of these towers and they are portals to other worlds", note the bold words - a DT fan is sure to notice that something here is odd, 19 is the infamous number used abundantly in the DT series, the tower in the DT series is also a sort of link between worlds, and the world described in the dark tower is a post apocalyptic world that can be something after the command and conquer wars. Just a thought... Eladkatz (talk) 12:07, 19 March 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eladkatz (talk • contribs) 12:05, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That's interesting, although unless you know the reference is an intentional reference, it could just be a coincidence and thus original research.--CyberGhostface (talk) 22:59, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

There are also references to King's novels Cujo and Christine but I can't remember exactly which book they were referenced in. I believe Christine is in Book VII and Cujo is either V, VI, or VII. InnerSpace (talk) 16:31, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

This might be a stretch, but in season 7 episode 4 of Parks and Recreation, Ron Swanson carves a key out of wood... 99.226.18.73 (talk) 07:40, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

The lead
Right now there are 5 sentences in the lead about the past plans for the film that didn't get made. Would it be alright to cut these? It looks like most of the same information can be found in the "2017 film" section of the page, and all of it can be found in the film's own article. As it stands, I don't know if cancelled plans for the film are important enough to be in the lead section, especially since this is the article about the book series. All that's really relevant now is that there is one film that is going to be made in 2017. Also, some of the information about the older plans could be misleading (ex. making it seem like Russell Crowe or Javier Bardem might still play Roland). GranChi (talk) 16:06, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Agreed 100% and I've made an edit that does just that. (Aside: Too many wikipedia articles become a pile-up of facts as they become available, and nobody goes back to revise them to the essentials of what's going on now. This lede was a good example of that.) Jsnell (talk) 16:19, 22 November 2016 (UTC)