Talk:The Dave Clark Five/Archive 1

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Birth Dates for DC5 Band Members
Myth: Press releases issued while the band was active and popular are probably more to be trusted than recent research. It would be nice to have this information correct before R&R HOF induction in Mar 2008, as Wikipedia will be widely cited.

Dave Clark - throughout the 1960s his date of birth was reported as 15 Dec 1942. Supporting evidence: when first contracts were issued for the Ed Sullivan Show in 1963, he was said to have not yet been a professional of legal age; news reports in December 1963 in the London Daily Mail, and other easily-verified sources, applauded his first contracts on his 21st birthday and their toasting with milk (Clark was then and remains? an alcohol non-drinker). The England and Wales Birth Index of British vital records, available at Ancestry.co.uk (hereinafter called Birth Index), lists sixteen David Clarks with births registered in the fourth quarter of 1939, fifteen more David Clarks with births registered in the fourth quarter of 1942, with many more inbetween--and it would be impossible to make a positive identification from this evidence without knowing his mother's maiden name, as none of these are recorded at "Tottenham" and three were recorded in nearby Edmonton.Clark's mothers maiden name was Bartlett the name he used when registering at acting school in the late 60's. Using that name the birth records confirm he was born in 1939.

Rick Huxley - called the "oldest band member" in 1960s fan magazines, his birth date is generally reported as 5 Aug 1942; in 1964 he was of age and married (ca 1961) with children. The Birth Index provides evidence contrary to the oft-cited 1942 date. Richard Huxley, mother's maiden surname Martin, has birth recorded in the third quarter of 1940 at Dartford. A marriage record exists for a Richard Huxley in the fourth quarter of 1961.

Lenny Davidson - date of birth is given in 1960s fan magazines as 30 May 1944; in 1964 he was supposed not yet of age but was married (ca 1963) per published accounts. The Birth Index once again sheds light contrary to the legend. Leonard A Davidson, mother's maiden name Lovett, is recorded as born at Edmonton (now Enfield?) in the third quarter of 1942. No contradictory entry for another Leonard appears in 1944. A marriage record exists for a Leonard A Davidson in the third quarter of 1963.

Mike Smith - date of birth by recent postings to his own Web page is 6 Dec 1943, and about this date there is little argument. Of all the Michael G Smiths of the early 1940s on the Birth Index he is a probable match with one registered in fourth quarter 1943, mother's maiden name Willis, at Edmonton.

Denis Payton - 11 Aug 1943, per obituary, and Birth Index concurs; called "Dennis A W Payton" by the Birth Index, presumably the A standing for a given name [Archibald?] rapidly dropped and spelling of Dennis changed to Denis by custom, mother's maiden name Hyre? [illegible], he has recorded birth in the third quarter of 1943 at Essex SW, consistent with Walthamstow.

A British Wikispecialist with access to newspapers of the time periods indicated could probably verify. Or, someone could just ask Dave.

Genehisthome (talk) 10:00, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I had a good laugh at the "born as" names... none of the Dave Clark Five went to much of an effort to come up with colorful stage names. "Dave Clark-- born as David Clark" is the first in the list. The Associated Press obit for Mike Smith, by the way, stated that he was 64 years old but gave no birth date... which is consistent with what the Wikipedia says. (BTW, what was the drinking age in Britian at the time? I think it was less than 21.) 06:38, 1 March 2008 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by TimothyHorrigan (talk • contribs)

Very early career
The "Years Active" in the infobox starts at 1957. Dave Clark himself was 18 at that point, but some of the members were in their early-to-mid teens at that point. Is there a story about how the group formed and what they were doing before their first single in 1962? DavidRF (talk) 15:41, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

The "controversy" section seems to be mostly a reproduction of an article about the group. If so, maybe that material should be summarized instead? 4.173.245.99 (talk) 14:49, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Career
This description is inaccurate and sounds more like a promotional bio than an encyclopedia entry: "The group was unique in the British Invasion because it was not an exclusively guitar-based sound. The beat was prominent and the DC5 was one of the few groups of the era to feature a saxophone. Smith's growling, blues-tinged vocals were in the lead on almost all of the hit singles."

The Animals, Manfred Mann, and The Zombies come immediately to mind as groups who based their sound on keyboards and whose guitarists were relatively insignificant. Even more traditionally guitar-based groups like The Beatles and The Rolling Stones had songs in which other instruments dominated.

I'd also disagree with the description of Mike Smith's vocals. While I wouldn't say they sounded blues-based in the same way as Eric Burdon or Paul Jones, that's a judgement call. However, "growling" is inaccurate. Smith's vocals were generally full-throated and exuberant, anything but growling. Again, that description better fits Eric Burdon. 4.173.244.168 (talk) 17:38, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Controversy
The controversy section, with particular respect to the material concerning Ron Ryan, is unsourced. Without a source, the unverified claims of Ryan need to be removed immediately. 172.162.69.25 (talk) 20:21, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Unsourced text
I have removed the following paragraphs -

''"The group was unique in the British Invasion because it was not an exclusively guitar-based sound. The beat was prominent and the DC5 was one of the few groups of the era to feature a saxophone. Smith's growling, blues-tinged vocals were in the lead on almost all of the hit singles.

After the success of the Beatles movie A Hard Day's Night in 1964, the DC5 released their own film, Catch Us If You Can'', (also known as Having A Wild Weekend) directed by John Boorman, in 1965. It also starred Barbara Ferris, and was released in the United States as Having a Wild Weekend.

''The song "Bits and Pieces" was sometimes banned from live concerts, as fans would jump up and down in time to the song's stomping beat and promoters feared this would damage dance hall floors.

''Ahead of his time, Dave Clark foresaw the music video, producing and directing a promotional film for the song "Nineteen Days," which was showcased on the Ed Sullivan Show in 1966. He later produced and directed the short film Hits in Action, which highlighted a series of Dave Clark Five hits and was shown in theaters around the globe. Clark wrote, produced, and directed Hold On- -It's The Dave Clark Five, an award-winning special for British television that featured the group performing various songs.

''Kiss actually covered one of the DC5 tracks, ‘Anyway You Want It’, off of their ‘Alive II’ record.

''Their music has been claimed as inspiration by fans such as guitarist Eddie Van Halen, Stevie Van Zandt, Bruce Springsteen and drummer Mighty Max Weinberg of Springsteen's E Street Band. That could be a reason why Weinberg plays the way he plays. He’s powerful and so was Dave Clark.

''The group will be remembered for their highly polished stage performances and for the relentless urgency with which they delivered their material. According to the liner notes for 1993's The History of The Dave Clark Five, the group displayed "a mastery of the elusive art of compressing the sheer power, excitement, and emotion of the best rock 'n' roll into a two-to-three minute single."''

There is not one reference to support any of this, which therefore appears to be purely POV fancruft. Please find references for such comments; or join a fansite and masturbate away furiously with this sort of gushing drivel ad nauseum. See What Wikipedia is not. Thank you,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 15:22, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Origin
Elaborated on the origin of the band. The origin now states: Tottenham, London, England. 206.209.102.75 (talk) 04:37, 1 April 2009 (UTC)