Talk:The Descent/Archive 1

Improvement Needed

 * The Descent - bad grammar, needs general expansion (needs to be stubbed?). Pictures - Logos? Cleanup --x1987x 02:24, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I'll see about cleaning up the grammar. Geoff B 01:32, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok, did a bit of smartening up, though it's far from perfect. Sorry, but this is the first film article I've done anything more than tweak. Not sure we need a 'deaths' section, as I've never seen these in any other film entries, and they're in the plot summary anyway. Also, should we just keep a vague list of references in the 'trivia' section, or have a seperate 'trivia' section? Geoff B 01:16, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

is that alteration to the US version in any way confirmable? was it a test screening or screening of final product? (i really hope it hasn't been changed at all... i loved it the way it was... Plonk420 01:56, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, the ending has definitely been changed. Lion's Gate have announced that the original ending will be an extra on the DVD. Geoff B 07:23, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

The plot description seems lengthy for this film article. Can it be shortened to two or three paragraphs? --Erik 22:48, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I've been meaning to get around to that for some time now. Thanks for the nudge. :-) Geoff B 00:27, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, cut the plot section down. If anyone wants to take a further crack at it, please do. Geoff B 14:07, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow, that's a definite improvement! Thanks for trimming the fat.  The article looks more respectable now.  I guess the only thing that sticks out is the need for citations for the trivia bits.  I know most film articles don't have them, but I've been trying to implement citations where I can.  But anyway, nice work! --Erik 16:55, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, and no problem. Trivia sections aren't really mentioned in the WP guidelines, so I suppose they should be integrated into text, somewhere. What bits do you feel we need citations for? Geoff B 18:02, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Can some one just explain maybe in the plot how the necklace proves that Juno was having an affair with Sarah's husband before he died. I never picked that up from the movie, or at least don't remember anything about an alleged affair, I thought the reason that Sarah kill/mortally injures Juno is because of what happened with heather and the pick ax in her neck. I have only seen it once and that was the first weekend it was released in North America so I could be mistaken, but I definitely don't think it is very clear.

The pendant was inscribed with Paul's (Sarah's husband) favourite saying. Sarah cripples Juno for that and because she thinks Juno stabbed Beth and left her. Geoff B 18:31, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Location of Story
I went through the film and story and actually both clearly indicate the location of the fictional cave in an unusually accurate manner. My verdict is that the cave is located in the Smoky Mountains of North Carolina at Jackson County. It's technically part of the Appalachian Range but that is a rather gross geographical description even for a fictional story!

Cheers from Hans in Finland 2007-06-21

Reception
This section needs expanding, but I'm not quite sure how to go about it. Any ideas? Geoff B 12:36, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Reception sections in film articles can be pretty varied. This is my suggestion: Write how much The Descent made in the box office, depending on which country, then mention the IMDb and Rotten Tomatoes ratings.  Then you can emphasize, based on these ratings, whether it was a generally positive reception, generally negative, or mixed.  From that point, you could create subsections of "Positive reception" and "Negative reception" and draw upon both positive and negative reviews for nonspoiler quotes to use in the section.  I'm sure there are other ways you can go about it. --Erik 16:36, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. :-) There's going to be a lot of change in this section shortly, as the film opens in the US today, so there will be a lot to add. Geoff B 17:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe the area is still lacking information. It's rather small for a movie that outdid a movie released a year earlier with a similar plot.-24.92.41.95 01:36, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Alternate ending
Can we keep this section short? It's just an extension of the plot synopsis, which has slowly been whittled down from it's once-gargantuan size. There's no reason to include a step-by-step "she did this and then she did this and then she did this and then this happened" description. Geoff B 15:00, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm in agreement about keeping the alternate ending section short. You have the two major pieces of information; where the alternate ending was shown (North America), and a very succinct explanation of what happened in the alternate ending.  You've done a great job cleaning up this article into something a lot more respectable than its predecessor.  Keep up the good work. --Erik 18:28, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, I just don't particularly want to fall foul of the 3RR. I'd rather keep it succinct, as it is, like the rest of the synopsis. Geoff B 18:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Succinct is fantastic, just make sure you convey the meaning of the ending. It's an ambiguous ending, not a happy ending. She doesn't obviously escape. (Chulbert 14:39, 7 August 2006 (UTC))

That's the difficulty. It's open to more than one interpretation. Some people do think she obviously escapes. Some people think she doesn't. Some people think the entire film is a dream. Geoff B 14:58, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

If she obviously escapes, that leaves the hallucination of Juno largely unexplained and ignores the theme of "when you see people that are dead, Sarah is hallucinating and what you see isn't reality" that is consistent throughout the film. What is most likely is that they didn't fundamentally change the ending of the film, they simply changed the execution to something more ambiguous for those viewers that demand a happy ending. Anyways, I have no major complaints about the current incarnation of the alternate ending text. Be well. (Chulbert 15:15, 7 August 2006 (UTC))


 * I just watched it, & to me, the ending was very ambiguous, but definatly did not read as clear-cut as the entry currently reads. If the ending is different between releases, maybe a note in the entry to that point is in order?mordicai. 03:39, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Given some of the negative comments directed toward the US distributor, would it be worth adding that Neil Marshall has taken at least partial credit for the American ending? I don't have a link handy, but he's mentioned in a couple of interviews that the US ending was one he'd been toying with for the original release, and that he was interested in seeing how the different ending would play. I think one of the interviews was in the L.A. Times, but I'm sure there are others. Cheers, S

It may be worth a mention. LGF mentioned it first, I believe, leading to a few theories that they paid Marshall to say that, asthere was no sign of it prior to their announcement. There are plenty of interviews now (Dread Central, Bloody Disgusting, Fangoria, etc). Geoff B 09:48, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

mordicai, there's already a section titled 'Alternate ending'. What else do you think we should add? Geoff B 04:01, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Plot problem?
I have seen this film (North America version) within the past couple hours. I have an issue with a sentence in the plot, specifically - "A fight ensues, and afterwards Sarah cripples Juno and leaves her for the crawlers."

This sentence suggests that Sarah and Juno fought each other, during which Sarah crippled Juno. In the version i watched, that was not the case at all. They were standing facing each other, having just defeated 3 (maybe 4) crawlers. There was a distant crawler growl/scream. Juno looked toward it. Sarah drove a pick into Juno's leg. What this really means is Sarah attacked Juno not as an act of self-defence, but really murder.

I am interested to see if this is a different version or not. Thank you. Jabbathenut 22:15, 6 August 2006 (AST)

The only difference, AFAIK, is the North American version has about 30 seconds trimmed off the end of the film. There are no other differences. I did think that sentence was fairly clear (mentions crawlers in the previous sentence, then the fight, AFTERWARDS Sarah cripples Juno) but it can be improved. Geoff B 01:20, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm just confused about this statement: "She shows Sarah a pendant of Juno's as proof that Juno had been having an affair with Sarah's husband, " perhaps I missed the explanation of this point in the film but could it be explained in the Plot Description? It appeared to me after viewing the US version that the pendant was proof that Beth was killed by Juno. I did not hear any mention of an affair. Johnny 12:32, 8 August 2006 (EST)

The affair is not overtly spelled out, but it's definitely there. Juno and Sarah's husband were exchanging meaningful glances and a bit of an affectionate touch at the film's beginning, when the women came ashore. Sarah seems to catch a glimpse of this. After Sarah wakes up in the hospital, Juno seems upset about something (more upset than Sarah's other friend) and leaves. She later apologizes to Sarah for not sticking around after the husband died.

Before the expedition, in the cabin, Sarah mentions a phrase her husband used to say to her, a "seize the day" kind of thing. Can't remember the exact wording, but it appeared, verbatim, on the back of Juno's pendant, implying that it was a gift from Sarah's husband. And in some of the cave scenes, Juno acts a little oddly around Sarah.

It all adds up to indicate an affair between Juno and Sarah's husband. This is all in the US version. I'm assuming it's the same in the UK version. Cheers, S.

The pendant couldn't prove Beth was stabbed by Juno. It's proof of Juno's affair with Sarah's husband, incribed with 'Love Each Day' which is Paul's favourite saying, as explained by Sarah. Geoff B 10:25, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Whe she gives her the pendant, Beth tells Sarah "Paul gave it to her", refering to Juno. Brian Schlosser42 13:34, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Infobox release dates
I understand why there's a union jack present in the infobox, but why is the us flag, and release date more important then any number of different countries where this has been released? 81.111.118.10 04:56, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

1) That's not really confusion over flags is it? So I renamed the subject. 2) The US release date is in there because it is notable. The Descent received a release in a lot of cinemas in the US (probably more than most other territories combined). 3) No-one said "the US flag and release date are more important than the others". If you feel so strongly about it, feel free to add them!  :-)  Geoff B 07:15, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

1) Yup, there was confusion, at the time. 2) The US is the biggest English speaking market for films (answered own question there, feel a little bit stupid now), so it does make sense. 3) Strongly about it? ..not really, just curious.

Thanks 81.111.118.10 11:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

To be honest, I know not all release dates are notable (if it's a one-off or very limited) but I don't know where the line is between notable and non-notable. I know The Descent did do well in Europe, but I'm unsure if the releases it received were wide, limited, or merely art-house style, and if so, are they notable. I shall have to posit that question over on the wikiproject film discussion area, say what gets said. Geoff B 11:57, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

EU US
"In Europe, The Descent was released before The Cave as opposed to in the US, where The Cave had been released almost a year earlier." - This sentence makes absolutely no sense at all.
 * Well spotted. I'm sure I did something about that before.  I shall rectify it again.  Geoff B 08:02, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Does no body knows about Descent movie: A science fiction movie... it is showing at 11:15pm, Mar 17th on HBO in India... Hope somebody can document this movie...

Extra plot stuff
This:

Alternate ending The Descent was released in North America with approximately a minute cut from the end. Sarah escapes the cave and sees Juno, but the film does not cut back to the cave.

In the August 4, 2006 issue of Entertainment Weekly, it was stated that the ending was trimmed because viewers didn't like its "überhopeless finale". Lionsgate marketing chief Tim Palen said, "It's a visceral ride, and by the time you get to the ending you're drained. [Director Neil] Marshall had a number of endings in mind when he shot the film, so he was open [to making a switch]." Marshall compared the change to the ending of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, saying "Just because she gets away, does that make it a happy ending?"

The North American Unrated DVD includes the original ending.

The Insanity Theory Many fans of this film argue that the monsters did not exist at all. Several clues exist to support this notion, most notably that Sarah has been through an extremely traumatic experience already and has previously suffered from hallucinations. The Insanity Theory posits that Sarah herself either killed or left her companions to die. An interview with director Neil Marshall at dreadcentral.com lends further credence to the theory, as he states "...she's killed all her friends...".

Marshall acknowledges this theory in the DVD commentary, yet says that this is only one possible interpretation. The fact that a sequel is being planned may support the theory that the monsters were real.


 * This doesn't belong in the plot. Not only does it need to be a bit better sourced, but it would probably be best in a "release" section, as it doesn't pertain to the plot itself, but the variations of the plot that were released.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  15:36, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Spolier alert
As far as I see, the interview you quote refers to Juno as "she kills all her friends but manages to escape, ok!" (talking about the alternate ending), not Sarah. I'd like to know what "clues" are you referring to that support the insanity theory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.8.89 (talk) 05:30, 1 October 2007 (UTC) Spoiler alert: needs one for the plot section


 * Please read WP:SPOIL, consensus (currently) is that a plot section will obviously have spoilers, and so an alert to their presence would be redundant.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  02:47, 16 September 2007 (UTC)