Talk:The Doomsday Machine (Star Trek: The Original Series)

In Harm's Way
I thought Commodore Matt Decker died when he had flown a shuttle into this alien weapon. How can he reappear in a online sequel called "In Harm's Way" ? Martial Law 23:56, 31 December 2005 (UTC)


 * "In Harm's Way" isn't canon to the Original Trek, but in their story, Decker was sent through time back to the 1960's by the Planet Killer which somehow opened a time portal instead of destroying the shuttle. Decker limped back to Earth in the shuttle and integrated himself into pre-Trek society. He even took a wife and started his life over again keeping his secret from the world. He hid the shuttle in his garage. In the episode, the "Enterprise" gets a call from the Time planet where the Guardian of Tommorow was being studied by a Federation science team. The team discovered an even larger portal in a valley that was big enough to fly the Enterprise through. It's been a while since I watched it, but somehow, Decker makes contact with the science team that he's in Earth's past and has an urgent message for Kirk. Kirk and company decide to fly the Enterprise through the large portal to bring him back home but the portal sends them to 2005. There they meet Decker's wife who explains her husband had recently died of old age, but she knows his incredible story and shows Kirk a video tape Decker made. He tells Kirk what happened and how he survived but that the Federation is in danger because more Planet Killers are coming and they have already started attacking them. You'd have to watch the episode to get the whole story, it's "way out there" but a pretty interesting concept. Cyberia23 21:14, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Alternate theories of machine's origin
What if the planet-killer originally had trans-warp capability? It would have journeyed to our galaxy using this technology, then encountered the galactic barrier that shorted-out or permanently disabled the trans-warp drive. Since it was designed with trans-warp, it was not considered by its builders to require a particularly high capability in conventional warp, so it is limited to about Warp 4.

When the Constellation and Enterprise encounter it, its course suggests it came from outside the galaxy, and that it somehow survived the barrier without damage, but reconsideration of the fact that it could not have made an inter-galactic flight, without planetary bodies to feed on, at Warp 4, implies it originated close by, or had a superior drive that is either not being used or has been disabled.

There is a simple, plausible answer to that. It is possible that the machine had a "sleep mode," which shut down all but its sensors. (Propulsion wasn't necessary, because Newton's First Law of Motion guaranteed it could keep moving...albeit slowly...through a vacuum.) Momentum could have taken it from one of the nearby "dwarf" galaxies, and into the Milky Way. ("Neutronium" was apparently immune to the barrier.) It had just enough battery power to detect asteroids, and use them for fuel. It would gradually build up enough power to fully recharge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thundermist04167 (talk • contribs) 10:23, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Thought might also be given to what happened after it was deactivated. Did Starfleet send an engineering team to study it and take any necessary action to render it harmless? It could have had a self-repair mechanism that was programmed to lay in wait as long as passive sensors detected a ship nearby, then go to work. The engineers would have to disable that mechanism. Was the hulk of the device disposed of somehow?

Furthermore, if the machine had not been investigated by Starfleet engineers, could it have eventually fully regenerated and even restored its trans-warp capability? Interesting to speculate. GBC 03:55, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


 * All these "theories" are your own speculation and don't belong in this article. Cyberia23 07:44, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Bad Links
The memory-alpha link has gone bad; the new page is here.

'John Winston' 'under guest stars' points to 'John A. Winston' Democratic governor of Alabama from 1853 to 1857. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.113.2.251 (talk • contribs) 15:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC-8)
 * Fixed. -- Hawaiian717 21:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Merge
Matt Decker only appears in this episode, and everything there is redundant. Why do we need a separate article? Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 03:32, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Possible Link With Star Trek: The Motion Picture

If memory serves: Decker's son had a brief appearance, serving under Captain Kirk in the first Star Trel movie.


 * Due to the perceived connection to Captain Decker from Star Trek: The Motion Picture, I think it's worth keeping, but needs dome cleaning up. Rhindle The Red 22:43, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

First Appearance
Should we mention this episode as the first, to show a Commodore as haveing been in command of a starship? 'Til this episode, a ships commanding officer, was either a Fleet Captain or a Captain (like Kirk & likely most ship's C.O.'s). PS- seen this episode today on ABC station, the remakes (digitaly remastered, new special effects) was fantastic. GoodDay 22:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Were you able to make out the "DQ" logo on the Doomsday Machine? Wahkeenah 01:39, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't recall seeing a 'DQ' logo. Though I didn't notice it, which 'DQ' logo was it? (what did it stand for)? GoodDay 18:48, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Since it looked like a big ice cream cone, I thought the digitally-enhanced version might be labeled "Dairy Queen". Wahkeenah 21:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * So that's how Decker got creamed (make that, ice creamed). Seriously, what do you think about adding the 'Commodore' thing. GoodDay 21:30, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I like obscure trivia. Not everyone approves. At the very least, be sure of the facts. Can you find a source? Wahkeenah 23:23, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, this is fun. The Doomsday Machine does have a resemblance to the polychaete "Ice Cream Cone Worm" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pectinaria_koreni_%28with_and_without_tube%29.jpg), pictured today on wikipedia's home page. More relevantly, a Commodore ranks above a Captain, but below an Admiral, so why wouldn't one be in command of a starship?  My understanding is that it's more or less an "honorary" rank given to a captain who hasn't yet been promoted to admiral (although it would be offensive, I suppose, to say so), thus the confusion over whether it's a "flag rank" or not.  24.27.31.170 (talk) 01:30, 25 February 2012 (UTC) Eric

I'm afraid I'm stumped, I can't find a source. Where's Spock when you need him? GoodDay 00:01, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Doesn't ultimate computer air prior to this episode? Commodore Wesley was in command of the Lexington in the starfleet battlegroup. - Count23 05:02, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ultimate Computer aired after, according to the TOS episode list here on Wikipedia. Jim Hardy (talk) 21:20, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Several of the items included in the trvia section, for example the notations about the energy barrier at the rim of the galaxy and "the monster which ate shaboygan" - and indeed much of the original plot section before I rewrote it, appear to greatly inspired by and in some cases lifted directly word-for-word from Memory Alpha. Not sure exactly what the licensing agreements are between these two sister sites, but perhaps the plagiarized material should be removed. Wikidenizen 08:50, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:DoomsdayCGI.jpg
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BetacommandBot 06:32, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Music
James Lileks quote about the music for this episode being the source for "half the cues" in Star Trek is catchy, and it's the same impression I got when I originally heard the CD Lileks reviewed: but it's wrong. The best reference is Jeff Bond (of Film Score Monthly)'s 1999 book The Music of Star Trek. Fred Steiner wrote music for more Star Trek TOS episodes than any other composer. Under the then-current rules of the agreement with the musician's union, music composed for an episode could be re-used through-out THAT SEASON's episodes; but all-new music had to be recorded for each season. So Kaplan's music for The Doomsday Machine could only have been heard thru the season 2 episodes. They did use it a lot. It's really great music Jim Hardy (talk) 22:00, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Sorry Alastairward, I made the change first and then updated the Talk. Jim Hardy (talk) 22:32, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I think it makes sense to move the Music bullet in the Trivia section, to its own section in the article, just above the 40th Anniversary remastering. The music is pretty notable: Lileks blogged about it in the Bleat, Jeff Bond called it (along with Amok Time) "seminal", and it (along with Amok Time) was chosen to be on the first CD release of Star Trek non-pilot music, from Crescendo.Jim Hardy (talk) 20:13, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

No Uhura?
Why does Nichelle Nichols not appear in this episode? Robert K S (talk) 04:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know, why are you using the talk page as a chat forum? Alastairward (talk) 18:30, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, shush. My query was relevant to the article, inasmuch as if the cast member's absence was due to some notable event or happenstance, it might be worthwhile to include it in the article. Robert K S (talk) 07:58, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Saberhagen
It seems reasonable to reference the source material, Fred Saberhagen's berserkers. Pretty much all of the commentary on the episode notes this; it was even pointed out in Saberhagen's obituary: "Fred Saberhagen... was best known for his Berserker series, in which self-replicating robotic probes, a doomsday device left over from a vast interstellar conflict, are programmed to destroy all organic life... The series was an obvious influence on television's Star Trek, in an episode called The Doomsday Machine." "Obituary, Fred Saberhagen".

(I will phrase this as "influenced" rather than "source material," per the phrasing there.) Michael-Zero (talk) 19:37, 24 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I find it still to be opinion. The quote is an opinion.  What does Spinrad say?  Sir Rhosis (talk) 21:12, 24 December 2013 (UTC)


 * First, Memory Alpha is an unreliable source and not acceptable for article citations, and I agree that Carlson's obit is opinion. Better source(s) definitely needed. &mdash; Cbbkr (talk) 22:34, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Until a definitive source (preferably Spinrad, himself) say the episode was directly influenced by Saberhagen's Berserkers, it needs to go.  We can certainly state that it is SIMILAR, but that's it.  I will wait a day or two before reverting to see if such a source can be found.  Sir Rhosis (talk) 01:34, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Wait, you are finding the notable opinion of a staff writer from a reliable source less than acceptable because…its his opinion?? Every source presented in these articles are in one form or another the opinion of the writer who penned/uploaded/shouted it from the rooftops. They are notable, and we. do. not. gainsay. it. Period.
 * If you have a source that says differently, then present it now. We deal in sources here, despite whether we agree with them or not. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 07:41, 26 December 2013 (UTC)


 * No, Jack, we deal in facts. Why is that difficult for you to grasp?  Need I link to a definition of the word?  We cannot state as a "fact" that the episode  was "influenced" by anything unless we have an irrefutable (100%) source.  All we have are opinions.  They must be presented as such.  I have no problem with saying "It has been suggested (LINK, LINK) that this episode was influenced by Saberhagen's Berserker stories, etc., etc...."  "Notable opinions" are still opinions, no matter how you gussy them up.  I will look for any interviews that Spinrad has given to see if he addresses the Berserker similarities.  Sir Rhosis (talk) 00:24, 27 December 2013 (UTC)


 * An interview with Spinrad. He claims no influence when he wrote his script.  http://www.startrek.com/article/doomsday-more-with-norman-spinrad-part-1
 * I have edited the article to reflect that some sources opine that the episode was influenced by Saberhagen's Berserkers. I have added a quote and a link to the article the quote came from from Norman Spinrad refuting that he was so influenced.  I feel this is the fairest way to resolve this honest disagreement.  Sir Rhosis (talk) 00:51, 27 December 2013 (UTC)


 * It is better with both sides presented, however I'd still like to see something else in place of the Memory Alpha source (maybe the two books actually mentioned in the MA statement). &mdash; Cbbkr (talk) 01:26, 27 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. I rephrased the citation to Memory Alpha to make it a statement about secondary sources referencing the devices as Berserkers, without saying that this was Spinrad's source. Michael-Zero (talk) 21:40, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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Suggest Jack Donner as the beaten security guard in Star Trek's, "The Doomsday Machine"?!
I believe the security guard who was beaten and knocked out by Commodore Decker, as he was being escorted to Sick Bay, was played by Jack Donner, who later played Sub-commander Tal in the episode, "The Enterprise Incident"! If not, he sure looks like him, even without the pointed ears?! Just a thought?! Lbrenton (talk) 10:24, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Perhaps...find a source! StarHOG (Talk) 13:18, 31 October 2020 (UTC)