Talk:The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife/Archive 1

Invention of Manga
someone removed the mentioning that Hokusai invented manga - afaik he was the first to do such "sketches" and call them manga, maybe that should be put back in? (clem 14:18, 6 May 2005 (UTC))

The thing is, it is attributed to him to have created picture books (ehon) that were similar in style (or precursors) of Manga. I removed it, because I think it is just an observation of similarity between manga and his ehon. If you want to add a short statement about who Hokusai is, it could be something in the vein of "famous Muromachi artist, who is attributed with revolutionizing ukiyo-e and because of his influence, even with the invention of manga." Ben talk contr 04:31, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

Translation
Fishanthrope added some translation of some text as a minor edit. I think, therefore, the text probably is not real. I will revert the changes. Jax 18:01, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

You did well. Real or not, here was not the place for it (apart from the question of licensing). Ben T/C 19:40, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

What does the text say? I'd like to know, and surely the article should include at least a sentence summarizing it. -leigh (φθόγγος) 04:25, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

The first sentence does, doesn't it? --Ben T/C 19:09, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Name
I have just picked up a book at my college library with over 100 works by Hokusai (information to follow question) that gives the title of this painting, "A Pearl Diver and Two Octopuses." Here though, it is titled "The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife." I was wondering what the true name of this painting is. I trust Wikipedia and the people who edit, and create the pages but I am getting a different title that is a more reliable source of accurate information so I am at a quandery of what to believe. If you want to check out the book yourself, the following is a bibliography stating the nessesary information to find the book in question.

Forrer, Matthi. Hokusai. Munich: Prestel-Verlag, 1991.

The painting is located on page 204. If anyone can help me sort out this confusion, I would be extremely appreciative. --User:Nsmith4658


 * The description given it on the image's Wikipedia page (蛸と海女の図, tako to ama no zu) translates directly to "picture of octopus and a female shell-diver". I don't see anything on the image itself that stands out as being a title, nor a signature for that matter, that I might be able to read or translate... LordAmeth 01:26, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I appreciate your effort. Thank you. --User:Nsmith4658

Movie
Added reference to the movie made by Kaneto Shindô at 1981, that refers this work and life of Hokusai. There are also stills available of the movie in the net, but I didn't include link to the still images to avoid copyright problems --84.231.173.158 18:50, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, citing IMDB as a source is worse than citing Wikipedia. —Frungi 19:17, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

What side is the "son" on
The article originally said, "perhaps his son, assists on the right by fondling her mouth and nipple." Well the little octopus is clearly to the left of the larger one. And it is on the left side of the woman. I guess you can say it is on the right side if you are inside the painting looking out or using theater terms, like stage right and stage left... Or perhaps the original author meant that the little one is on the big octopus' right....But anyway yo, I changed that shiz up. The little octopus is on the LEFT. So now it reads, "perhaps his son, assists on the left by fondling her mouth and nipple." If I am wrong here please let me know. I may have been confusing my left and right for the past 29 years of my life. If I have, then I have a bone to pick with Grover from Sesame Street. Peace out yo. Find me on the Facebook. Tim Strunck. Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.196.247.131 (talk) 06:42, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

"Saa... Hicha hicha gucha gucha, yuchyuuchyu guzu guzu suu suuu"
Is there a meaning behind... eh... this? I'm guessing this is onomatopoeia of some sort, however it doesn't resemble onomatopoeia from modern Japanese (e.g. "doki" for a heartbeat, etc etc). Is there any way to find out what "yuchyuuchyu" meant to represent within 1814 Japanese literature? --  李博杰  &#124; —Talk contribs email 15:57, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

That's transliteration of the script from the print. It's creative sucking sounds. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamesheaton (talk • contribs) 03:25, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Translation of inscription
Wasn't there a translation here somewhere? Anyway, I found two sources of it but I hope that someone can verify the source: "Translation of the inscription by: James Heaton and Toyoshima Mizuho. Published in the Kyoto Journal, No. 18, 1992"

http://buffoonery.org/blog/2004/11/tako_pr0n.html http://www.poormojo.org/cgi-bin/gennie.pl?Squid+264+bi

Kent Wang 16:25, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

The text in the print was translated by James Heaton with Toyoshima Mizuho and is published in Summer 1991 Issue of Kyoto Journal, released July 30, 1991 ISSN0913-5200. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamesheaton (talk • contribs) 03:24, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * If someone wants to translate at Wikisource and link from here, that would be best. We shouldn't include full primary sources per WP:IINFO and WP:NOFULLTEXT, and that's for sources which aren't subject to copyright. A translation from 1991 is almost certainly copyrighted. Woodroar (talk) 06:15, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Aha. I should have checked out this thread before reverting before. Certainly looks like a copyvio. For the record, though, articles routinely give translations of the text in a painting, so I can't see how IINFO applies except via NOFULLTEXT -- and I don't think that holds up either in this case. Nonetheless, unless someone can find a version with appropriate permissions the discussion is likely moot. --&mdash;  Rhododendrites talk  |  14:45, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
 * You're correct, it is done, but I think the key is for text to be both short and discussed in context. A translation into English would be appropriate if an editor translated it him/herself and we included some sort of commentary, but simply reproducing content seems to run counter to our guidelines. Perhaps that is just something I've seen in practice rather than a bright-line rule, however. Woodroar (talk) 16:37, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Here is another translation, credited to Danielle Talerico, attached to the picture at the British Museum where it was shown as part of a shunga exhibition: http://adoxoblog.wordpress.com/2013/11/16/shunga-i-hardly-even-know-her/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.128.201.240 (talk) 02:54, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

I have translated it before and there is no COPYVIO, but Woodroar deleted it. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Dream_of_the_Fisherman%27s_Wife&oldid=579192237 --shenzhuxi (talk) 21:40, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Wikisource is a better place to put the full work—even if copyright isn't a concern—and Wikipedia is a better place to give sourced information about the work. Woodroar (talk) 22:31, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090204154824/http://stolaf.edu/people/kucera/YoshidaWebsite/evolution/essay_pages/anne_lenehan_white.htm to http://www.stolaf.edu/people/kucera/YoshidaWebsite/evolution/essay_pages/anne_lenehan_white.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090204154824/http://stolaf.edu/people/kucera/YoshidaWebsite/evolution/essay_pages/anne_lenehan_white.htm to http://www.stolaf.edu/people/kucera/YoshidaWebsite/evolution/essay_pages/anne_lenehan_white.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 18:38, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Diving Girl Ravished by Octopuses

 * “Bobo” and “Tako” (octopus) are both slang references to the vulva.
 * http://colinpantall.blogspot.com/2013/09/the-dream-of-fishermans-wife.html
 * https://shungagallery.com/hokusais-the-dream-of-the-fishermans-wife/


 * File:Tako to ama retouched.jpg Description contains Japanese and English texts from :
 * http://web.archive.org/web/20090815231851/http://parasiteeve2.blog65.fc2.com:80/blog-entry-28.html
 * Google Translate:
 * Large octopus:
 * It is time for you to aim yourself at the same time, for a while, for a while, forgetting to come. I also want to eat snacks Iba. He is an obstacle to sweet potatoes. Let's sit down and tie down and tie it off, when can you tie it off, when will it take you to a sleigh?
 * It is a stranger to me. Ae, there is a kitten 's mouth on its way, so Ikki goes away, so Ikimo stays, Aeemoitsuk, warts, Ehou, warts, Auah, and so many, what are you doing. Alright, good, nice. Though it was said that people are Ahafu Ahuhu, it is a bunch of dust, but now it's already over, Die, this, a strain ...
 * Marine woman:
 * Movement, pickling and spruce, from the eighth way of the foot Mi Anba Ha How is it? Anyway, gimmicks are blown away, Yuna wants Yanayoridashi drunk
 * Large octopus:
 * As I am tickling, there is nothing left to wear on the floor, and I can not keep going, I will keep going abroad. Ah, Aa nice yo
 * Marine woman:
 * As I am tickling, there is nothing left to wear on the floor, and I can not keep going, I will keep going abroad. Ah, Aa nice yo
 * Small octopus:
 * I am sorry to cause you to get rid of my fairy tale, and I will rub the fish in this wart to the other side of the universe.


 * http://www.akantiek.nl/hokusai%20p1290.htm
 * http://www.academia.edu/19201013/David_Laity_s_Laid_Bare
 * https://everything2.com/title/Dream+of+the+Fisherman%2527s+Wife
 * https://ryszberry.wordpress.com/tag/dream-of-a-fishermans-wife/
 * https://www.reddit.com/r/japanese/comments/19g6ve/can_anyone_help_me_translate_the_text_in_the/
 * http://www.tronviggroup.com/internet-bias-and-the-dream-of-the-fishermans-wife/
 * https://adoxoblog.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/your-bobo-is-ripe-and-full-how-wonderful/


 * 64.175.40.229 (talk) 10:23, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Title of picture
The article doesn't explain why the common title in European languages ("The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife") is completely unrelated to any of the titles in Japanese, and indeed mischaracterises what is being shown. --Ef80 (talk) 15:33, 16 December 2021 (UTC)