Talk:The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim/Archive 1

Xbox 360 leak
The xbox 360 version of the game has been leaked and should be stated on the wiki page. Search for it allot of articles about it and it's on torrent sites. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fierytigerwolf (talk • contribs) 14:38, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with this, it is quite a significant event in the gaming community, that illustrates some problems in the industry. The xobx version is available on multiple torrent sites.  About the leak: .  Bethesda are aware of it:  87.64.64.203 (talk) 15:06, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
 * And another source here, but geeksailor is better known (Alexa for geeksailor vs ). 87.64.64.203 (talk) 15:18, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

name pronunciation
Is the game pronounced a single sound to rhyme with 'trim' or as 'sky-rim'?

I can't seem to find a video or article which makes this clear - if anyone knows can they put the phonetic letters on? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.158.110.187 (talk) 15:31, 17 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I've always pronounced it "sky rim". "Skrim" wouldn't seem to make sense, which is the only way I can think of to pronounce it in a single sound. I don't have a reference to back up my pronunciation, but alternatives to "sky rim" have never occurred to me. 67.158.43.41 (talk) 08:47, 23 March 2011 (UTC)


 * You must've never played Oblivion. Skyrim is mentioned plenty in filler dialogue from random NPCs - it's pronounced "sky-rim." 173.86.141.12 (talk) 00:04, 27 March 2011 (UTC)


 * that's annoying Skyrim sounds better than Skyrim anyway I've added in IPA to the article 195.158.110.187 (talk) 13:52, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

video file
This

see site info for http://www.elderscrolls.com/ ie http://www.zenimax.com/legal_terms.htm ie "''All content and materials on the Sites, including but not limited to text, graphics, logos, button icons, images, audio clips, and software included in the Services, are the property of ZeniMax or its licensors and are protected by U.S. and international copyright, trademarks and other proprietary rights and Intellectual Property Rights laws..." etc

I think it may not be possible to use this video clip under a wikipedia license. 83.100.248.248 (talk) 05:01, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Removed file since it no longer applies to this article under the WP:Non-free content criteria. :| TelCo  NaSp  Ve :|  18:29, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

game engine
Removed this: diff

Skyrim will utilise a new proprietary game engine, forgoing the Gamebryo engine used for the previous two instalments in the series. The new engine will incorporate some existing technology used in other Bethesda games, such as Oblivion and Fallout 3. Executive producer Todd Howard has stated that the studio has invested in new talent to significantly improve the characters and animation over previous Bethesda games.

I didn't find anything in the three references that confirm a new non-gamebryo game engine, or any reference to this game.83.100.248.248 (talk) 16:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It implicitly says that there is a "new engine built for the game" which obviously means it is not the same old Gamebryo engine. And Todd Howard has only really been working on one game, which is Skyrim. No it doesn't implicitly say "Skyrim", but common sense dictates he is referencing this game. There's plenty of other news reports which link the Skyrim rumours to the interviews with him. A connection can certainly be made. At the very least, we can change it to "From interviews with executive producer Todd Howard, it is possible that Skyrim will utilise...", rather than blanket removing it. The animation improvements sentence is perfectly valid, as he was describing all future Bethesda games in general. -- Dorsal  Axe  17:28, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * You mean this "Bethesda Game Director Todd Howard explained in a separate interview with IGN that his game would not use id Tech 5. The studio's new engine built for its upcoming title is more beneficial to creating huge, open-world games, such as Fallout 3 and The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion" - that's a single mention of the word new. Don't overdo synthesis or speculation please. "New" could equally apply to a update version of the current engine as much an entirely new engine.
 * Obviously I get that it's now obvious that he will have been refering to this game (Skyrim), but remember that this article is supposed to be encyclopedically verifyable, and not speculative at all. (It falls under the guidlines given in No original research, specifically you're suggesting the common mistake to use No_original_research - I mostly agree with you, but what is and is not ok for putting in the article is another thing.) 83.100.248.248 (talk) 18:18, 12 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Well excuse me while I eat my virtual hat .. Bethesda has announced it is a new engine, my apologies for the inconvenience Dorsal Axe.83.100.248.248 (talk) 20:23, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * No that's okay. Perhaps I was too hasty in my hidden excitement for this game. ;) -- Dorsal  Axe  22:34, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks like they're making heavy use of twitter .. Pete Hines (vice president) is promising more full details soon on his account http://twitter.com/DCDeacon/status/13813723919552512 (saves me a lot of bother looking too.. :) 83.100.130.11 (talk) 23:00, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

trailer narration
removed diff

Narration by Max von Sydow

using a google search I only found guesses that it was this person narrating, can someone confirm who it is ?83.100.248.248 (talk) 18:11, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Direct Sequel
Last I heard, this was a rumour, yet now the article is claiming that it was confirmed, can anyone confirm this confirmation? 217.42.67.175 (talk) 18:35, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * According to the reference, and several other places, it's a direct sequel. If something comes up later on saying it isn't a direct sequel, then we can use it as a reference and update the article with that information. We're just going with what we know, and what we can back it up with. -- Dorsal  Axe  19:13, 13 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I checked over the source. It claims that the premiere video reveals that it is a direct sequel, and watching said video seems to confirm this. The confirmation that it is a direct sequel seems wrong to me, unless I've missed a source. 217.42.67.175 (talk) 15:27, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think it has actually been confirmed, though all the game-sites are saying it is... From the trailer it seems that it is a sequel and not a prequel. Not sure exactly what "direct" means in this context.83.100.186.32 (talk) 17:41, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * There is absolutely no reason to assume it is a direct sequel. The rumours orginated from a translated report of someone claiming to have overheared a discussion - that is hardly a reliable source. The video HINTS that it MIGHT be soon after the oblivion crisis, but there is never any explicit statement. Just because Oblivion is mentioned, doesn't mean it will directly follow the story of Oblivion. I'm removing the "direct" part until that is actually confirmed. 84.176.178.26 (talk) 17:36, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I agree.Sf5xeplus (talk) 19:47, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

The game informer magazine, issue 214, said that this game is set 200 years past the events of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. So it is a sequel, but not an immediate (direct?) sequel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.181.225.135 (talk) 02:31, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Future events
eg this diff and the Gameinformer january edition eg

Basically, future events are only considered suitable for inclusion if the event itself is notable. So the exclisve reveal doesn't quite make it, even though it's clearly true and from a reliable and verifyable source. I know that may seem a little odd, and probably a bit 'tight' to not include it but it is the general way things are done. more info here NOTCRYSTAL. (Actually that link is about articles not content of articles - but still worth bearing in mind)

Another thing to bear in mind is "when the full details are known, will what is currently in the article still be relevant?" (and therefor still in the article) - if the answer is no then it's probably a good idea to just wait and see. Hope that makes sense.83.100.186.32 (talk) 01:52, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Game plot speculation
diff

Phrases such as is thought to.., and expectations of the game being set in Skyrim, no mattter how obvious it may seem at the moment can't stay until confirmed. See No original research. The claims may seem sensible, but aren't fully reliable.213.249.239.13 (talk) 18:28, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Well they did confirm the dragons. Not sure why that's been removed. -- Dorsal  Axe  20:56, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Hang on, you sure? all I've got is this and the assumptions of the game sites, plus the teaser trailer, which has the problem that it may not relate directly to the game (eg Oblivion teaser trailer could have given the impression you were playing as Uriel Spetim in some sort of RTS..) - obviously dragons though .. but a reliable source yet?83.100.173.33 (talk) 23:46, 16 December 2010 (UTC)


 * ok dragons back in then.83.100.173.33 (talk) 23:49, 16 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm at a loss how to reincorporate that info into the article as a readble sentence.83.100.173.33 (talk) 02:01, 17 December 2010 (UTC)


 * It's easy enough, make a section titled Dragons. Then underneath it make a paragraph with only one sentence, "There will be dragons.[ref]"Shardok (talk) 23:26, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

podcast info
http://bethblog.com/index.php/2010/12/16/the-bethesda-podcast-episode-6-enter-the-dragon/

Not a lot of info, but does say that developement started after oblivion, and gives a figure for the number of developers (over 100), if anyone thinks such info would be useful.83.100.173.33 (talk) 02:53, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

release date
yeh, remembrance/veterans' day is pretty unimportant?... :S Flipping Mackerel (talk) 00:18, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see what connection that day has to this game, other than being released on the same day. -- Dorsal  Axe  08:51, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Exactly! Flipping Mackerel (talk) 21:43, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed.Shardok (talk) 16:49, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

new sections
I've added a gameplay section... someone else might want to add a plot section based on the new info - I'd suggest using a similar article structure to that in the oblivion article.Sf5xeplus (talk) 15:16, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Article lead, 2nd section
Sounds the 2nd Section so not much more interesting for the reader? So for me it sounds more interesting:

"Skyrim's main story is set 200 years after the events of Oblivion, around a place in the Nordic country on the fictional continent of Tamriel, will feature dragons and revolves around the Nordic god Alduin, who comes to destroy the world."

I will first seek to third opinion before I change the article. Kind regards Abani79 (talk) 21:44, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
 * That's only a textual change - to be honest with you I think your version is not quite as good grammatically, and the current version would be preferable. Also your version doesn't mention that the nordic country is Skyrim, which is probably quite important.Sf5xeplus (talk) 21:54, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
 * If you take out the middle part like so...

"Skyrim's main story is set 200 years after the events of Oblivion will feature dragons and revolves around the Nordic god Alduin, who comes to destroy the world."

...it makes no sense. Sir Robert &quot;Brightgalrs&quot; Schultz de Plainsboro (talk) 05:10, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

I've rewritten the lead section. Hopefully the second paragraph makes more sense now. CR4ZE (talk) 09:46, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I usually get a bad feeling when people say "rewritten" - but it seems ok - definitely tidier. big sigh of relief. Couple of points though:


 * I think the previous "Radiant AI" should be namechecked as a reference to the previous game.
 * Removed direct sequel - still not sure why people add this - it's a sequel (not a prequel) - to clarify the Lord of the Rings (Book or DVD number 2) was a direct sequel to the Lord of the Rings (Book or DVD number 1), because it follows on, pretty much from the next day. The Lords of the Rings is not a direct sequel to The Hobbit because there are many years in between - that's how I see it anyway.
 * I think the "compass style menu" needs explanation and expansion - as I understood it the menu is more tightly integrated into the game world (a bit like Fable III or Dead Space (video game) attempted to connect the menu systems into the game world )
 * I prefered the previous explanation of "perks" ie Additionally gaining a level now gives additional skill specific abilities in addition to character attribute increases. I'll probably replace that back in if no one objects? Sf5xeplus (talk) 17:42, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Any reason that the second paragraph in the lead section was removed? It's important to have plot details in the introduction of a video game article. Also, I think this whole thing with the "Radiant Story" doesn't belong in Gameplay, because it's not something the player physically "does" while playing the game. I'll move it to Development if nobody has any objections. I've hidden the third paragraph about "Dragon Shouting" because the source - a Photobucket image - has been deleted. If a new source is found, I'll rewrite the paragraph because it almost reads like an advertisement. CR4ZE (talk) 01:09, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Radiant AI - That's probably someone getting confused on the topic of Radiant Quests, which is explained in the magazine. It *is* a direct sequel according to Bethesda. Just do a google search for it and you'll see all the articles quoting them saying that. That is why people keep putting it back to direct sequel.Shardok (talk) 14:25, 14 January 2011 (UTC)


 * The "dragon shouts" are mentioned in the GameInformer magazine.83.100.230.154 (talk) 18:32, 14 January 2011 (UTC)


 * This "direct sequel" debate seems endless. For now, we should just refer to it as a sequel until more information becomes available. CR4ZE (talk) 03:44, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Minor points
The "wall" (see http://media1.gameinformer.com/images/site/pages/esv/index.html?es=5# ) confirms that the narrator in the trailer was Esbern, (and thus voice by Max von Sydow), that the King was murdered, and that the player starts as a prisoner (quote) "As Skyrim begins, a lone prisoner begins to learn that he may hold a similar power" :) as with previous versions.83.100.230.154 (talk) 18:32, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Also ign says that draw distance has improved - is this reliable ? http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/114/1143527p1.html 83.100.230.154 (talk) 18:39, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

The_Elder_Scrolls_V:_Skyrim
Apart from the section being over detailed and requiring a general rewrite because of that, and the minor issue that it starts "The game does well in ..." when this is speculation as of now, the problem is  WP:COPYPASTE 

eg:
 * accurately mimicking the imbalance prevalent in melee combat by adding staggering affects and camera shake
 * There's a brutality to [the combat] both in the flavor of the world, and one of you is going to die. I think you get very used the idea that enemies are all there for you to mow through, but it doesn't seem like someone's life is going to end. We're trying to get that across.
 * satisfying thud arrow economy
 * there are three words for each shout, and there are three levels to them
 * the amount of time you hold down the shout button determines how many words come out

also compare with
 *  for instance, the 'sword perk' increases the chances of landing a critical strike, the 'axe perk' punishes enemies with residual bleeding damage effect after each consecutive blow, and the 'mace perk' ignores armor as to land more powerful strikes upon the enemy. the wikipedia article
 * For instance, the sword perk increases your chances of landing a critical strike, the axe perk punishes enemies with residual bleeding damage after each blow, and the mace perk ignores armor on your enemies to land more powerful strikes.
 * That's a copyright violation..

Quotation is occasionally necessary, but in general not if the information can be written in your own words with no loss of impact. I'm only going to say this once.. In general and copy-vios are without question and a warning to the editor.. Next time I'll just delete it. Sf5xeplus (talk) 03:15, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm addressing all these issues. Shouldn't take very long. CR4ZE (talk) 04:01, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

I've done some cropping, but there is still a little fluff that could be cut out. I'm done for the time being. CR4ZE (talk) 04:17, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I made some minor changes - should I be using Oblivion as a baseline from which to describe the game.??
 * Also I removed the bit about "knock back attacks" using shields - though added about using timing - maybe this should be in - but Oblivion already had a "shield stagger" effect (I think).
 * Probably should say something about the attempts to make it less of a "slug match" in combat - but can't think of the words. I guess it can wait.Sf5xeplus (talk) 08:15, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

I've done some minor work too. There was no need to split the paragraph about stealth off, because it's only a couple of lines long. It's better to reference Oblivion as little as possible, because we're alienating readers who've never played an Elder Scrolls game before. CR4ZE (talk) 11:39, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't copy and pasting.
I appreciate your concern, but I wasn't copying-and-pasting. I paraphrased it to the best of my ability. But, yes, I do understand that it was a bit excessive. I'm glad you trimmed it down.

( To CR4ZE)

Mileylikeshersalvia (talk) 22:26, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Merge completed
I have completed merging the Creation Engine article here. CR4ZE (talk) 05:11, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

"witness their own execution" - removals
diff


 * The bit about the blades dying out has lost its reference - it was from the gameinformer magazine fixed


 * The game begins with the player character "witnessing [their] own execution", the circumstances of which are not currently known. : ok this doesn't makes sense - it is a mistranslation (or some sort of preminition ?) - has anyone got the original dutch text? Sf5xeplus (talk) 01:29, 2 February 2011 (UTC)


 * http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1161723-dutch-cover-story-interesting-info/ this isn't a reliable source - nobody from bethesda confirms the info - needs alternative references - one about fast travel, the other about the main quest being 20hrs. It's repeated elsewhere eg but they're all spamming the same info - really need the dutch magazine title and pages, possibly with included quotes in the ref. 01:39, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Behemoth of new info
I can't find a way to properly add this new information to the article.

Here's the original podcast, which is 56 minutes long: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/podcasts/archive/2011/02/03/toddhowardse.aspx

CR4ZE (talk) 07:26, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know what to do with it either - there's info. in there but it's more 'icing' than 'cake' - one thing that did stand out was that dragons can attack from the air and from the ground, had a special team working on them for 2yrs, have different attack patterns, are not rideable and there can be more than one at a time..
 * The other bit that would have been a good addition was the stuff about mounts - but that was a bit vague - seemed to say there will be mounts (horses) (didn't I read somewhere about ridable mammoths ??) - but not clear on the details.
 * I'd rather wait until it gets put in print - don't really like working from audio sources - probably won't be long before they start showing the game more widely. Sf5xeplus (talk) 04:53, 6 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh it confirmed more of the plot - the bit about the greybeards calling you to [wherever] via the thousands of steps . .. for training in dragon speech.Sf5xeplus (talk) 05:52, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I've added in all the important stuff, like dragons and quests, and kept out fluff like mounts and factions. I've also used alternative sourcing to the original podcast to eliminate neutrality issues. I can't remember what was said about the plot, so you can add it to the Plot section as you wish. CR4ZE (talk) 05:54, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Promises by the developers
A lot of the detail currently in this article about what is or will be in the game is based on comments made by representatives of developers Bethesda in interviews. Although this is clear from examining the sources, it might be an idea to make it clearer in the article itself. For example, the article states that "[dragons] will attack cities and towns at random, often nose-diving to the ground before marching through city streets and breathing fire, engulfing buildings and causing significant damage to city structures." Sounds exciting! What the source actually shows, however, is that developers have stated that this will feature in the game, not that it actually does feature in the game. One can't assume that they amount to the same thing.Hobson (talk) 16:27, 10 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Are you saying that game developers are unreliable sources, or that the article should read "the game will feature" instead of "the game features"? Because I disagree with both. Please elaborate. CR4ZE (talk) 06:56, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

I think what he is trying to say is that dragons attacking a town might not be an actual feature present in the game, but instead would be something that you experienced once or twice during the course of the main quest, perhaps through some sort of cutscene.Although the all the info I've heard from Todd Howard seems to imply that dragon attacks on towns will be random, but he only implies this, not confirms it. 75.107.0.53 (talk) 19:28, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Although, in the podcast that was recently on Game Informer where they interviewed Todd Howard, he mentioned that there was a team in Bethesda that spent two years working on the dragons, designing the animations and perfecting the AI.So it doesn't seem like they would spend that much time working on the dragons if they were only going to feature them briefly in the game. 75.107.0.38 (talk) 13:59, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm saying that we don't know what the game features or doesn't feature. What the sources actually tell us is what the developers have said in interviews. That's what the article should say - eg "developers Bethesda have said the game will feature ..etc". Throughout the article, there are references to things that are or will be in the game. But none of the sources verify that those things are in the game.Hobson (talk) 20:45, 12 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, as the IP user above you pointed out, Todd Howard stated that there has been a team working on dragons for two years. He specifically said that the dragons were able to land in cities and breathe fire, destroying people and buildings. It's not like he said "we think that dragons will...", he specifically made a point of it. Also, writing "developers Bethesda have said the game will feature..." constantly will make the article read horribly. CR4ZE (talk) 00:15, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
 * see Primary,_secondary_and_tertiary_sources - the developer releases are primary sources, and the developer associated press campaign with GameInformer is not definately un-biased either. See also the whole of the guidline at Verifiability ie Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy, and ,  While primary sources are normally welcome, there are dangers in relying on them. etc etc
 * Possibly problems are buying into hype etc..
 * Game review websites are not consistently always that reliable - due to their own conflict of interest issues - ie advertising revenue etc.
 * There appears to be little that can be done until the game is released and actually played and reviewed.Sf5xeplus (talk) 12:27, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

More new information due out soon h-EddyDew (talk) 08:10, 15 April 2011 (UTC)


 * For future reference, this does seem to be a case of developers exaggerating slightly - which is not uncommon in the computer game industry. Dragons in Skyrim (I've been playing, it's great) do swoop from the sky but they don't attack cities at random, destroying the buildings. The buildings in the game appear to be indestructible, except a keep attacked by a dragon at the start of the game as part of a scripted storyline, which is a very different thing to a random attack. The point I am making is that statements about what is in a game is crystal-balling until the game is released, or at least until reliable independent sources have seen it (eg a preview by an independent journalist who has seen the game with their own eyes). Interviews with developers and other hype before a game is released are reliable sources in the sense that they tell us what developers(or distributors or marketing people) have said about the product, but they are not reliable sources for what the product will actually include. Of course, they might be the best source we have got, but that only means that we have no reliable and independent source to tell us what is in the game. I'm not saying information from marketing hype should be excluded from articles before a game is released - it might be the only information we have. Just treat it with a little bit of caution:) Hobson (talk) 19:25, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

New Info
I don't know if this is legitimate or not, but someone posted a link to this site on the TESNexus which talks more about the features of Skyrim.

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/1407/article/bethesda-reveals-new-skyrim-facts/

99.196.128.59 (talk) 14:24, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Interesting - it looks likely to be true, but I wouldn't add any as yet - the actual overall relevance to the game isn't clear (ie don't give undue weight to a single source)


 * By the way the first gameplay trailer is out - it can be found on the official website, and elsewhere.Sf5xeplus (talk) 12:31, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Contrary to popular belief, this is all information taken from the Official Playstation Magazine UK. I have the magazine myself, and it lists all this info, but all the relevant stuff has already been added to the article. CR4ZE (talk) 02:26, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

SPECIAL SKILLS BY RACE

ORCS: Beserker REDGUARDS: Adrenaline rush WOOD ELF: Resist poison, resisit disease, command animals NORD: Battlecry KHAJIIT: Night-eye, claw attacks IMPERIAL: Voice of the Emperor, find more coins when looting HIGH ELF: Regenerate magicka more quickly DARK ELF: Ancestor's Wrath (surround self in fire), resist fire BRETON: Dragonskin (absorb spells), resist shock ARGONIANS: Histskin (regenerate health quickly), resist disease 50%, breathe underwater

Nothing too earth shattering here, but the perks system is much more exciting. Like Fallout 3, players in Skyrim can choose two new perks each time they level up. Many of the perks can be upgradable multiple times. Here is the list of what Sammu was able to check out.

Speech - Buying and selling price 10% better (5 ranks) - 10% price buying from opposite sex - Invest in shops and increase available gold permanently in invested stores - Master Trader - every merchant in world gains 1000 gold for bartering - Buy and sell from any merchant regardless of what they normally buy and sell - Intimidation attempts twice as successful - Persuasion attempts more likely successful

Alchemy - Potions 20% stronger (5 ranks) - Potions for restore health, magicka or stamina are 25% more powerful (maybe ranked) - Poisons 25% more effective (maybe ranked) - Poisons last for twice as many hits - Two ingredients are gathered from plants - 50% resistance to all poisons - All negative effects removed from potions and all positive removed from poisons - 2 effects of an ingredient are revealed when testing it for the first time (instead of just one) - Another (unclear recording, sorry!)

Illusion - Dual casting overcharges effect for more powerful spell - Cast Novice spells for 50% less magicka - Cast Apprentice spells for 50% less magicka - Cast Adept, Expert, Master etc spells for 50% less magicka (more levels this time around) - Spells work on higher level animals - Spells work on higher level people - All spellcasting (from ANY school) is done silently - Spells work on undead, daedra and automatons - One I genuinely didn't understand, and it wasn't clear on the recording either - something about "Kindred Mage" or something. - Fear spells work on higher level enemies

Conjuration - Novice for 50% magicka etc (up to Master) - Dual casting overcharges --> greater spell effect - Bound weapons do more damage - Bound weapons cast Soul Trap on target - Bound weapons banish certain creatures (and I think summon creature in their place, not 100% on that though, dodgy recording) - Reanimate undead with 100 more health - Summon 2 Atronachs or reanimated zombies - Summon Atronachs at twice the distance - Summoned Atronachs twice as strong

Destruction - More damage for each school (fire, frost and shock) - ranked - Novice for 50% magicka etc. - Shock damage chance to disintegrate targets if their health is under 10% - Frost damage chance to paralyse targets if health low - Fire damage chance to make low health enemies flee - Place runes 5x farther away

Restoration - Healing spells also restore stamina - Novice for 50% less magicka etc - Healing spells do 50% more healing - Something about recharging healing spells (sorry about poor recording quality, it was in my pocket!) - More is recharged with each hit with healing spells (again, sorry not 100% sure what this means!) - Spells more effective against undead - Once a day chance to autocast 250HP restoration when health drops low - Magicka regenerates 25% faster

Alteration - Novice for 50% less etc - Alteration spells have greater duration (probably ranked) - Absorb 30% magicka that hits you - Another couple - bad recording again

Enchanting - Enchants are 20% stronger (ranked) - Enchanted armor 25% stronger - "Soul gems provide extra magicka for recharging" - again, dodgy recording but that's what I heard, even if it doesn't make much sense - Death blows to creatures but not people trap souls for weapon recharge - Health, magicka and stamina enchants stronger - Extra effect on already-enchanted weapon can be applied - Shock, Frost and Fire enchants 25% stronger (individual perks for each element) (probably ranked)

Heavy Armor - Increase armor rating 20% (5 ranks) - Unarmed attacks with heavy armor gauntlets - damage increased by gauntlets' armor rating - Half fall damage if all in heavy armor - Heavy armor weighs nothing and doesn't slow you at all - Additional 25% armor if in matching set - 25% armor bonus if all in heavy armor (not necessarily matching) - 50% less stagger if all in heavy armor - 10% damage reflected back to enemy if all in heavy armor

Two-handed weapons - Two-handed weapons do 20% more damage (5 ranks) - Attacks with warhammers ignore 25% armor (ranked) - Attacks with battleaxes do extra bleeding damage (ranked) - Attacks with greatswords do extra critical damage (ranked) - Power attacks cost 25% less stamina - Standing power attacks do 25% bonus damage, chance to decapitate - Sprinting power attacks do double (critical) damage - Sideways power attacks hit all targets - Backwards power attacks have 25% chance of paralysis

Archery - Bows do 25% more damage - Zoom in - Zooming slows time - 10% crit chance - Move faster with drawn bow - Recover twice as many arrows from dead bodies - 50% chance of paralysing for few seconds (might be 15%, can't really hear...) - Draw bow 30% faster - Another about arrows - can't hear

Sneak - 20% harder to detect (ranked) - Sneak attacks do 6x damage with one-handed weapons - Sneak attacks with bows do 3x damage - Sneak attacks with daggers do 15x damage (end perk on skill tree) - Noise from armor reduced 50% - No longer activate pressure plates - Sprinting while sneaking performs silent forward roll - Running does not affect detection chance - Crouching can make hostile enemies lose sight of you and search for a target

To read more about Sammu's impressions, check out his forum post. Hopefully we'll have the perk list for all the skills sometime soon.

Filed under: bethesda, playstation 3, role-playing, xbox 360, preview, skyrim, the elder scrolls v: skyrim, pc, the elder scrolls, bethesda studios — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lerdonkey (talk • contribs) 23:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

More like Morrowind
According to this link, Skyrim will be a lot more like Morrowind. I think this should be included in the Settings section of the main article. - AeonEchelon (talk) 00:04, 11 March 2011 (UTC)


 * It should be noted though that while like Morrowind in many ways, it will follow Oblivion in general setting type, being low-fantasy rather than high-fantasy. I don't know where I heard this... if anybody could confirm it that'd be great, I'm quite confident it's true.--207.161.209.229 (talk) 02:12, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

I heard it will be more like morrowind in the sense that it is unique. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.167.147.23 (talk) 09:14, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Minor points

 * In gameplay it quotes "[w]e take the paradigm for reading AI, but we let people do what they want under extra parameters" - I may be stupid - but I have no idea what the first part of this means - can someone rewrite it so it's self explanatory.
 * In folklore it reads "through a course of events, the player character learns that he/she is "Dragonborn."[10] This allows the player to use dragon shouts. " - this is a bit confusing - I assume it means that only Dragonborn can use dragon shouts. Can this be clarified or rewritten a bit please.
 * In developement there are quite a few quotes, many are justified - but is "[i]t's exciting finally to announce the game. [...] We've been working for many years on Skyrim and the technology behind it. A new Elder Scrolls game has been a long time coming, and we can't wait to show it off." really necessary. It sounds like the sort of thing all developers say from birth..
 * Also The art design of Skyrim is described as being "very different" - unfortunately this tells me nothing really, and lacks context. I've seen the screenshots and it's not clear what is meant - perhaps very different from Oblivion? Also in the same section the art design is described as "epic reality" as well as "closer to home" - I assume these are the developers words - could someone write it in more plainer english please, and in their own words. Thanks.Sf5xeplus (talk) 13:07, 12 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Done. CR4ZE (talk) 23:39, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Danke, si gut.Sf5xeplus (talk) 17:57, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Ahopp, 19 March 2011
Please edit article, changing "Spells can be used in ranged and close combat forms. Spell types have specific qualities; a cold spell slows and drains stamina, whilst a fire spell causes prolonged damage through burning, and may also ignite the environment." to something more similair to " Spells can be used in ranged and close combat forms. Spell types have specific qualities; a cold spell slows and drains stamina, whilst a fire spell causes prolonged damage through burning, and may also ignite the environment. Overall, there will be approximately 80 to 85 spells." (As noted in the OXM article and the GI article)

Ahopp (talk) 18:45, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done, although I used "over 85" like the source citation says instead of 80–85. — Bility (talk) 03:33, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

BBFC 15+
Dear Wikipedia,

I think it would be much appreciated by users if Skyrim's BBFC rating was updated to 15+ instead of 18+. The BBFC confirmed Skyrim's 15+ rating on the 5/9/11 (English Date Format) and still it hasn't been updated on its Wikipedia article.

Here is evidence of the rating decision: http://www.bbfc.co.uk/BDM282610/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.182.161 (talk) 01:18, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Yours Faithfully,

The Aardvark 2.0

Interview with Todd Howard
Some new info about some of the features in Skyrim in an interview with Todd Howard:

http://pc.ign.com/articles/115/1158651p1.html

He talks about a few things, such as traveling by horse carriages, and dragons that respawn.Beware the joke questions near the bottom.75.107.0.52 (talk) 01:18, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

question
Is it possible to ride a dragon, as you would a horse in oblivion? or if not, if another Elder Scrolls comes out in the next few years, is that a possibility? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dragonmaster92 (talk • contribs) 14:54, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Dragonmaster92 (talk) 14:57, 5 May 2011 (UTC) Dragonmaster92

user generated content ps3/xbox 360
there's nothing in the artical about user made Mods being possibly avalible for consoles. could someone please add it cuz im not sure how. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.248.22.6 (talk) 19:36, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

User-Generated Content in Skyrim — April 21, 2011

'Bethesda's Todd Howard has confirmed that the studio is trying to find a way to let 360 and PS3 gamers install user-generated content with TESV: Skyrim. The only problem is finding a way to allow users to download the content. "It works on all the consoles," he said. "As far as the 360 and PS3, right now there's not an avenue for us to make that available, but we’d very much like to find a way. We have talked to Microsoft and Sony, and so there's a chance it might happen one day, [but] I don't see it happening for release."

Third-party mods have been a huge part of the Elder Scrolls series since Morrowind and have allowed PC players to add almost anything to their games. The leading TES mod site, TES Nexus currently features over 24,000 files, and there is every indication that Skyrim will continue the high level of input from the modding community.'

Resources: Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages. (UESP.net)

Therefore, there won't be any user generated content. 24.179.27.28 (talk) 20:01, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

"...and doing so allows for better items to be bought or looted from dungeons."
In the gameplay section it states that leveling up increases the value of loot and what can be found in stores. This system was used for Oblivion, but was, for the most part, not used in Morrowind. There has been no confirmation that loot or store goods will scale with level, for all we know it could be preset, or scale to the level of enemies rather than your level. --184.94.68.35 (talk) 03:38, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

A misunderstanding about Radiant Story vs. Radiant AI
"Predecessors to Skyrim made use of an artificial intelligence system known as Radiant AI. Skyrim makes use of an updated system known as Radiant Story.[8]"

That is a quote from the article, talking about Radiant Story and Radiant AI. It is simply not true, the source listed even says something completely different. Radiant AI HAS NOT been replaced by Radiant Story. Radiant Story is a feature used to govern quests, and make quest oriented features more dynamic. Radiant AI is still the system that governs all AI in the game, and it has been vastly improved.

The entire paragraph needs to be rewritten to say this, as, in its current state it is totally wrong. I thought I'd post this here for discussion for a day or two before editing it myself. --184.94.88.4 (talk) 05:31, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

I can see the angle you're coming from. My main reason for reverting back is that your re-writing used "offering far more complexities", which reads more like an ad than a Wikipedia article. The inconsistencies with the source have been redressed, so the paragraph should be clearer to understand. CR4ZE (talk) 06:21, 13 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks, and sorry about all the kerfuffle over that article. Your wording sounds great. 206.45.183.236 (talk) 01:16, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Pre-Order Bonuses?
Is it worth mentioning pre-order\collector's edition bonuses? 203.25.1.208 (talk) 03:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)


 * If they have been announced and have clearly backed references. Yes. Almost every game article tends to show the bonuses for certain special editions if they exist.Shardok (talk) 06:01, 11 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I was going to edit the page and noticed it's locked. Anyone know why? Anyhow here's the official Bethesda Blog announcement about the inclusion of a map (http://bethblog.com/index.php/2011/06/23/get-a-premium-skyrim-map-with-your-preorder/). I believe blogs are generally frowned upon by Wikipedia but given this is an official source perhaps acceptable? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.208.167.79 (talk) 15:01, 12 July 2011 (UTC)


 * There is a more reliable source | here. Gamestop's official site lists the pre-order bonus when you pre-order with them. Also, to see why a page is protected you can view the pages protection log. This page has been protected multiple times because it gets a lot of traffic, and partially because of that, excessive vandalism.216.81.22.125 (talk) 03:16, 18 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Cool thanks. I'd quibble about the reliability of the gamestop source though, It's one Canadian company selling the game. Something at the publisher\developer level's more appropriate, hence the official blog post. 118.208.112.180 (talk) 11:24, 19 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Does it have to be a pre-order to obtain the map, because I bought it the day after and found a map inside. This was gamestop that I bought it from. I was happy but confused because it was suppose to be a pre-order only ordeal. So my best guess or conclusion to this is that any left over games with maps were sold regardless. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.160.145.13 (talk) 19:47, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Well, all users who don't get the pre-order bonus "cloth" map get a standard paper map (same sort of glossy paper that posters etc are made from - if you had/have Oblivion or any GTA game, it's that sort of map). Also, I think it's basically just the whole first run of games that had cloth maps - pre-ordering guaranteed you would get one, but it's certainly possible that copies bought soon after launch will also have it. I may be wrong on that part though. Alphathon  /'æɫfə.θɒn/ (talk ) 19:58, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

A couple of things
1. Should there be a section on the legal trouble involving Skyrim and Mojang aka "'Scrolls' is infringing on our 'The Elder Scrolls' title"? It's all over the place now, so I can't really get anything good anymore except for the Mojang and Notch Twitters, and Notch's blog. Maybe this would be better at the Bethesda article (something about it doesn't seem to "fit" with the main TES article) but it was specifically about Skyrim if I recall. Of course, we should mention it on the Mojang article as well.

2. Does anyone else think that the dragon language is essentially a cross between Morse code and katakana? Actually, does anyone know what that particular image says? Despatche (talk) 15:21, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Lerdonkey, 26 September 2011
Perks And Classes SPECIAL SKILLS BY RACE

ORCS: Beserker REDGUARDS: Adrenaline rush WOOD ELF: Resist poison, resisit disease, command animals NORD: Battlecry KHAJIIT: Night-eye, claw attacks IMPERIAL: Voice of the Emperor, find more coins when looting HIGH ELF: Regenerate magicka more quickly DARK ELF: Ancestor's Wrath (surround self in fire), resist fire BRETON: Dragonskin (absorb spells), resist shock ARGONIANS: Histskin (regenerate health quickly), resist disease 50%, breathe underwater

Nothing too earth shattering here, but the perks system is much more exciting. Like Fallout 3, players in Skyrim can choose two new perks each time they level up. Many of the perks can be upgradable multiple times. Here is the list of what Sammu was able to check out.

Speech - Buying and selling price 10% better (5 ranks) - 10% price buying from opposite sex - Invest in shops and increase available gold permanently in invested stores - Master Trader - every merchant in world gains 1000 gold for bartering - Buy and sell from any merchant regardless of what they normally buy and sell - Intimidation attempts twice as successful - Persuasion attempts more likely successful

Alchemy - Potions 20% stronger (5 ranks) - Potions for restore health, magicka or stamina are 25% more powerful (maybe ranked) - Poisons 25% more effective (maybe ranked) - Poisons last for twice as many hits - Two ingredients are gathered from plants - 50% resistance to all poisons - All negative effects removed from potions and all positive removed from poisons - 2 effects of an ingredient are revealed when testing it for the first time (instead of just one) - Another (unclear recording, sorry!)

Illusion - Dual casting overcharges effect for more powerful spell - Cast Novice spells for 50% less magicka - Cast Apprentice spells for 50% less magicka - Cast Adept, Expert, Master etc spells for 50% less magicka (more levels this time around) - Spells work on higher level animals - Spells work on higher level people - All spellcasting (from ANY school) is done silently - Spells work on undead, daedra and automatons - One I genuinely didn't understand, and it wasn't clear on the recording either - something about "Kindred Mage" or something. - Fear spells work on higher level enemies

Conjuration - Novice for 50% magicka etc (up to Master) - Dual casting overcharges --> greater spell effect - Bound weapons do more damage - Bound weapons cast Soul Trap on target - Bound weapons banish certain creatures (and I think summon creature in their place, not 100% on that though, dodgy recording) - Reanimate undead with 100 more health - Summon 2 Atronachs or reanimated zombies - Summon Atronachs at twice the distance - Summoned Atronachs twice as strong

Destruction - More damage for each school (fire, frost and shock) - ranked - Novice for 50% magicka etc. - Shock damage chance to disintegrate targets if their health is under 10% - Frost damage chance to paralyse targets if health low - Fire damage chance to make low health enemies flee - Place runes 5x farther away

Restoration - Healing spells also restore stamina - Novice for 50% less magicka etc - Healing spells do 50% more healing - Something about recharging healing spells (sorry about poor recording quality, it was in my pocket!) - More is recharged with each hit with healing spells (again, sorry not 100% sure what this means!) - Spells more effective against undead - Once a day chance to autocast 250HP restoration when health drops low - Magicka regenerates 25% faster

Alteration - Novice for 50% less etc - Alteration spells have greater duration (probably ranked) - Absorb 30% magicka that hits you - Another couple - bad recording again

Enchanting - Enchants are 20% stronger (ranked) - Enchanted armor 25% stronger - "Soul gems provide extra magicka for recharging" - again, dodgy recording but that's what I heard, even if it doesn't make much sense - Death blows to creatures but not people trap souls for weapon recharge - Health, magicka and stamina enchants stronger - Extra effect on already-enchanted weapon can be applied - Shock, Frost and Fire enchants 25% stronger (individual perks for each element) (probably ranked)

Heavy Armor - Increase armor rating 20% (5 ranks) - Unarmed attacks with heavy armor gauntlets - damage increased by gauntlets' armor rating - Half fall damage if all in heavy armor - Heavy armor weighs nothing and doesn't slow you at all - Additional 25% armor if in matching set - 25% armor bonus if all in heavy armor (not necessarily matching) - 50% less stagger if all in heavy armor - 10% damage reflected back to enemy if all in heavy armor

Two-handed weapons - Two-handed weapons do 20% more damage (5 ranks) - Attacks with warhammers ignore 25% armor (ranked) - Attacks with battleaxes do extra bleeding damage (ranked) - Attacks with greatswords do extra critical damage (ranked) - Power attacks cost 25% less stamina - Standing power attacks do 25% bonus damage, chance to decapitate - Sprinting power attacks do double (critical) damage - Sideways power attacks hit all targets - Backwards power attacks have 25% chance of paralysis

Archery - Bows do 25% more damage - Zoom in - Zooming slows time - 10% crit chance - Move faster with drawn bow - Recover twice as many arrows from dead bodies - 50% chance of paralysing for few seconds (might be 15%, can't really hear...) - Draw bow 30% faster - Another about arrows - can't hear

Sneak - 20% harder to detect (ranked) - Sneak attacks do 6x damage with one-handed weapons - Sneak attacks with bows do 3x damage - Sneak attacks with daggers do 15x damage (end perk on skill tree) - Noise from armor reduced 50% - No longer activate pressure plates - Sprinting while sneaking performs silent forward roll - Running does not affect detection chance - Crouching can make hostile enemies lose sight of you and search for a target

To read more about Sammu's impressions, check out his forum post. Hopefully we'll have the perk list for all the skills sometime soon.

Filed under: bethesda, playstation 3, role-playing, xbox 360, preview, skyrim, the elder scrolls v: skyrim, pc, the elder scrolls, bethesda studios

Sources Gameinformer and thefeed

Lerdonkey (talk) 23:33, 26 September 2011 (UTC)


 * No. This is a blatant copy and paste from several other sites and adds game-specific material that isn't relevant to Wikipedia. Absconded Northerner (talk) 06:11, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Latest Skyrim screenshots is perhaps more relevant EddyDew (talk) 12:31, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS FOR SKYRIM
Since the page is semi-protected, I cant add this info there: Minimum System Requirements


 * OS: Windows XP, Vista or Windows 7
 * CPU: Core 2 Duo 2.0 GHz or Althon X2 2.0 GHz
 * RAM: 3 GB
 * HDD: 15 GB
 * Graphics: 512 MB card
 * Sound Card: DirectX 9 Compatible
 * DirectX: Version 9.0c

Recommended System Requirements


 * OS: Windows XP, Vista or Windows 7
 * CPU: Core 2 Quad 3 GHz
 * RAM: 3 GB
 * HDD: 15 GB free disk space
 * Graphics: 512 MB Graphics Memory
 * Sound Card: DirectX 9 Compatible
 * DirectX: Version 9.0c

Supported Graphics Cards:

Minimum – 8800 GT Recommanded – Geforce GTX 460/Radeon 5850

Orcidea (talk) 05:08, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

It's also 3 discs on Xbox isn't it? EddyDew (talk) 07:31, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Someone fix this
Under the Development section it says "the total amount of lines recorded for NPCs numbered into the 600,000s", citing http://www.bethblog.com/index.php/2011/09/27/a-star-studded-cast/. If you go to the link, you'll see that the actual number of lines is about 60,000. I know, it's a small issue. But it's bothering me.


 * Done. And I took the opportunity to clean the wording up a little too. Absconded Northerner (talk) 09:50, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from, 2 November 2011
The xbox 360 version of the game has been leaked and should be stated on the wiki page. Search for it allot of articles about it and it's on torrent sites.

Fierytigerwolf (talk) 18:20, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I have not found any reliable sources for this. Do you have one? --Jnorton7558 (talk) 20:05, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I could not find any either, maybe someone removed it?MilkStraw532 (talk) 20:11, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Reliable source here for example . (And Bethestha are aware of it ) 87.64.64.203 (talk) 15:11, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Suggested paragraph to add at the end of the release section: "Perhaps due to the particularly strong anticipation for the game, in October 2011 pictures of many pages of the manual of the game have been leaked , later followed by footage from the introduction, revealing some more details. By November 1st 2011, a copy of the Xbox 360 version had been leaked and made available through the internet, allowing people with a cracked version of the Xbox to play Skyrim 10 days before its official release ." 87.64.19.216 (talk) 13:04, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I've marked this as answered as protection has expired. Feel free to continue discussing the merits of the proposed edits here. Steven Zhang  The clock is ticking....  22:17, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Will wait to see if there's further input about it.  Note that we have addressed this kind of issues in the past in similar circumstances, for other games (ex: Half Life 2). 87.64.19.216 (talk) 22:56, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * There, added it. 87.64.129.2 (talk) 13:33, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

There is no cloth map
Could we remove all instances or references to a "cloth map"? No such thing exists. Replace with "Synthetic burlap map" where it's required, but it's better to remove it entirely from some sections. For instance, the Collector's Edition mentions having a map, but all copies of the game come with a map, so that should be removed to clear confusion (will I get the map in a non-collector's edition?). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.161.228.127 (talk) 14:43, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, pre-ordered versions do come with a "cloth map" of the in-game world. -- Sleegi ''' [✆Talk]  01:53, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Vandalism!
An admin should re-protect this page, there's been excessive vandalism, especially as 11 Nov gets closer. I tried to add the template but did not realize you had to be admin. Crh0872 (talk) 20:44, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

--- Keeping the page protected limits the correct information that can be added and updated. Plus, any vandalism is easy to undo?


 * Actually it doesn't limit the information that can be added. Non-auto-confirmed users can still request edits here on the talk page. I'd much rather make a few requested edits than have to identify and revert constant vandalism. -- Fyrefly (talk) 16:23, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough, but someone should probably edit that the game has been released now, still says "scheduled to be released". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.188.41.139 (talk) 08:13, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Release
It says Aust. broke the Oct. 11th release date by selling the game on Oct. 10th. Those should both be November. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.210.161.13 (talk) 09:10, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Germany and France started selling on 7th of November too..--195.169.153.150 (talk) 10:15, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Amazon pre-order delay
Perhaps we should mention that, many who paid on Amazon to get the game today haven't yet gotten the game, despite the day nearly being over. It may just be England/Britain, but most, if not all, who paid the extra charge to get the game the day it comes out haveyet to recieve the game.--92.22.163.73 (talk) 22:32, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
 * While this is certainly true (I only received mine today), this has nothing to do with the game itself as far as I can tell. Personally, I think the problem lies with Amazon UK and Royal Mail, since mine was dispatched on the 10th, which would normally arrive on the 12th (11th if lucky). It is certainly possible that they were dispatched late due to stock issues, which may well be Bethesda's fault (possibly relating to the cloth map promo) but unless that can be demonstrated I don't think it belongs in the article. Alphathon  /'æɫfə.θɒn/ (talk ) 15:49, 14 November 2011 (UTC)