Talk:The Elf on the Shelf

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This article reads very much like marketing material for a single product. Several of the edits to this article, both by a user called Elfontheshelf and others, seem designed to create a sort of fake "tradition", presumably to support the book and tie-in products mentioned in the article. Whilst there are certainly traditions of the general form "Santa Claus is watching you" in the run-up to Christmas, we need some clear evidence that the particular story told in this book has historical roots; otherwise, this is just another book (and related products) cashing in on a holiday season, and we should describe it as such. RomanSpa (talk) 10:07, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Bogeyman link
You explain to me how there's no connection between a bogeyman who is "used by adults to frighten children into compliant behaviour" and an elf whose job it is "to keep watch over the children's behavior during the day and return to the North Pole overnight to report their behavior" in order "to ensure that they behave properly throughout the holidays." 67.171.210.88 (talk) 00:49, 13 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't think the difference between a cheerful toy elf and a terrifying monster really needs to be explained in detail. If you want to be taken more seriously, consider creating an account rather than editing from an IP. As it is, this seems like trolling (IMHO).  B.Rossow ·  talk  01:14, 13 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia. The encyclopedia anyone can edit. Except people without an account, because we don't take them seriously. 72.222.112.152 (talk) 05:05, 26 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Spare me. I have a username, I just rarely feel the need to use it, and that doesn't make my efforts any less valid. I don't believe that it matters that one is a cheerful toy elf and the other is a terrifying monster when the desired effect is the same. 67.171.210.88 (talk) 04:46, 13 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Unless this article's plot summary is inaccurate, describing the he-knows-if-you've-been-good-or-bad Santa trope as being "used by adults to frighten children into compliant behaviour" with his elves as a "non-specific embodiment of terror" seems a bit of a stretch. --McGeddon (talk) 10:54, 13 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, to some extent, yes. That's the point. "The links in the 'See also' section do not have to be directly related to the topic of the article because one purpose of 'See also' links is to enable readers to explore tangentially related topics." 67.171.210.88 (talk) 19:02, 13 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I haven't heard a rebuttal. Silence is acceptance? 67.171.210.88 (talk) 21:10, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Well I will chime in here and say that it is at best tangentially related and does not belong. Dbrodbeck (talk) 21:49, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
 * See-also links should also be "relevant", we shouldn't provide a link which is then of no use or interest to the reader when they arrive at the article. There is no punishment or abstract terror here, the cute toy elf is not an example of the bogeyman tradition. --McGeddon (talk) 10:43, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Give me a break. The intent of the toy is clearly to implicitly suggest that improper behavior on behalf of the child will result in the child receiving an inferior level of Christmas gifts. That's the punishment, and the fear of this outcome is the terror that keeps the child in line. Why else would the elf be reporting the child's behavior to a man who is known for threatening to leave naughty children coal in their stockings? At this point, I don't care about the link, I'm just frustrated at how blatantly you refuse to accept the obvious. 67.171.210.88 (talk) 21:53, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * We operate by consensus, you have not achieved it, move on. Dbrodbeck (talk) 22:26, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know what makes you think that you have the authority to tell me what to do. Furthermore, perhaps you should learn a thing or two about punctuation and capitalization. 67.171.210.88 (talk) 22:44, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I am giving you advice. You have made a small number of edits and probably don't understand how things work around here.  We don't operate on unanimity, we use WP:CONSENSUS.  My spelling and punctuation are actually fine, but that in neither here nor there.  Perhaps you could go read WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT.  Dbrodbeck (talk) 22:54, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * "That in neither here nor there" is fine spelling. 2.31.164.43 (talk) 20:11, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

history
I took out the bit about the old 1960s elf from a blog. It was just someone's blogspot site, hardly an RS. If someone can find a better source perhaps we can put it back in. Dbrodbeck (talk) 02:31, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

My 1950s Elf .. I have an Elf on the Shelf that my mother got in the 1950's. It comes out every Christmas and goes on my wall clock. It was a favorite of my brother who drowned on New Years Day in 1963.

Elf is Spy! Isn't anyone concerned that we're teaching kids to be apathetic towards surveillance?
In our post-Snowden age, should we really be teaching kids to voluntarily encourage active spys into their homes? Creepy! I'm surprised the article doesn't already have references to this moral quandary, if you know of references which qualify for wikipedia's acceptable sources - please contribute them into the article. It is much needed. Roidroid (talk) 05:00, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * You would need sources. Do you have any?  Dbrodbeck (talk) 12:33, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Are you a bot? I just asked for sources, and you responded by telling me i'd need sources. ... Roidroid (talk) 05:12, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * We're already apathetic. The WMF is about to get away with this, the likely effect of which is to decisively and permanently disempower editors and administrators. RomanSpa (talk) 18:32, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

missing history?
This reads like a promo for the recent book. What about the longer history of the idea? I remember having these creepy things sitting around the house at Christmas time when I was growing up in the late 1960s / early 1970s, long before this book which which allegedly invented the idea. Our Elf-on-shelf had no NSA-like back story about spying, it just sat around the house on shelves, on the TV, on the kitchen cabinets; moving around from time to time. Everyone thought they were generally creepy but we kept hauling it back out every year. Perhaps someone can track down who made them or what they were originally called? Steevithak (talk) 12:48, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
 * a little googling turned up a blog post that corroborates my claim, but probably not an acceptable source. http://seniormusingsmoments.blogspot.com/2011/12/original-magical-elf-on-shelf-1950s.html Steevithak (talk) 12:52, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
 * one more ref where the author of the book admits she wrote about a pre-existing tradition she experienced growing up. I think Inc. Mag is an acceptable source and it clearly establishes the tradition and the toy itself pre-date the book by several decades. http://www.inc.com/magazine/201112/the-elf-that-stole-christmas.html Steevithak (talk) 13:00, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah that blogspot post won't do. The other one seems fine, but, it says it was her family's tradition, not something that others did.  If we could find something that said that this was a thing out there in pop culture generally we would be good to go.  Dbrodbeck (talk) 17:43, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

It is startling that the hit song from 1934 (now traditional) "Santa Claus Is Coming To Town" is not mentioned, which contains the root idea predating the Elf On The Shelf, although the song didn't mention a creepy snitching elf. It was a good-humoured song, to be taken lightly. The Elf the Spy business is a modern innovation that is certainly not traditional. And I don't get the indignation about the mean, bratty kid getting a lump of coal. He deserves it. Song lyrics:

"You better watch out You better not cry Better not pout I'm telling you why Santa Claus is coming to town

He's making a list And checking it twice; Gonna find out Who's naughty and nice Santa Claus is coming to town

He sees you when you're sleeping He knows when you're awake He knows if you've been bad or good So be good for goodness sake! O! You better watch out! You better not cry Better not pout I'm telling you why Santa Claus is coming to town" 77Mike77 (talk) 01:11, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Suggested changes / additions
Two things right off the bat:

1) I am a software engineer that works for Elf on the Shelf. As such I do not want to make any edits to the primary article due to conflict of interest. At the same time I'm also not posting this under official capacity either, so don't consider me a mouthpiece of the company (although I admit that I will probably be biased) 2) I am a total wikipedia n00b... so please don't flame me if I'm out of line... educate me :) . I'm all ears (eyes?)

Now that I have that out of the way, there are some changes I would like to suggest to any editors interested in updating this wiki page:

a) We launched a Reindeer plushy toy last year (2014) along with a corresponding book. It has been pretty successful thus far... enough so to probably merit a mention on this page (similar to the Birthday product etc). I tried to keep the copy neutral... I may or may not have achieved that: •	Another new book followed in 2014 called Elf Pets®: A Reindeer Tradition. Similar to The Elf on the Shelf box set, each Elf Pets box set comes with a hardbound children’s book and a reindeer pet that children can play with. According to the story, children can adopt their own reindeer pet to create the Christmas magic that Santa needs to fly his sleigh on Christmas Eve.       Source: http://parenting.blog.ajc.com/2014/11/14/the-elf-on-the-shelf-now-has-reindeer-pet/ b) The toy is not considered a "soft toy", it's just considered a "doll" (see the opening paragraph). Not to get in to too much detail, but since it's not designed to be touched by the child, it's not really a toy (although I suppose that might be semantics) c) Someone should consider creating an awards section... it's accumulated a ton of them: http://www.ccaandb.com/awards ... I'm happy to hunt down sources for any of them upon request.

Alrighty - I figured that's a good place to start.

Calebrhurd (talk) 18:21, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

An Old Story - an Elf on a Shelf or a Tumton? (spelling?)
I know this story goes back to the early 1960's at least, and is not just from a recent book. I personally first heard this story from my mother-in-law in 1984, when my then husband and I moved nearby. Our first Thanksgiving and Christmas with his family, our children were about 2 and 4 years old, this was part of a family tradition I was now introduced to at that time. In fact, she actually gave us her family "elf", if I remember correctly, it wasn't called an elf, it was called a tumton (I don't know if that spelling is right). I may be wrong and it may be that she had just named it Tumton - but I simply can't remember for sure. Anyway, she and my husband explained that this was their family Christmas tradition for the kids and told me this same story. The tumton comes from Santa and appears after Thanksgiving, somewhere visible, preferably in the livingroom area of the house. Then each day it would mysteriously move to a new location in the general living area of the house, up high, where the kids couldn't reach it. This would continue until Christmas Eve when it would disappear to go back to the North Pole and tell Santa how the children had behaved. We, and the kids, had fun with this for years, though I don't think we really fooled the kids for very long. I don't remember if my mother in law credited where this tradition came from. She was originally from Southwestern Iowa, and I don't recall her specific heritage, if I ever even knew it. Unfortunately she has passed on to be the Lord and I do not have any contacts within her family. Hopefully this telling will spark someone else's memory. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oldcruzer (talk • contribs)
 * If someone could find a reference for this, and, if someone could find a reference connecting the Elf on a Shelf to this tumton thing, that would allow us to include it I think. But, without refs we are nowhere though.   Dbrodbeck (talk) 16:09, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on The Elf on the Shelf. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140415040154/http://www.courierislander.com/entertainment/usa-today-bestsellers-1.757134 to http://www.courierislander.com/entertainment/usa-today-bestsellers-1.757134

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 05:30, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 December 2016
Robert leath (talk) 21:27, 21 December 2016 (UTC) The Elf on a Shelf was started by Carolyn Leath of Springfield,Ohio for her children in 1965. She placed 3 elves on the fireplace mantle. She told her children that they were Santa's Elves keeping an eye on them. Several years later, as she was babysitting children, she continued using Elf on a Shelf to keep the children to be good at Christmas time. The Parents of the children saw how effective it was and started doing the same thing at home to keep the children good at home.
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 22:19, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Espionage related parody in Saturday Night Live
One recent episode of Saturday Night Live shows Putin giving an Elf on the Shelf, which is obviously rigged with espionage equipment, to Trump and asks him to leave it on the fireplace mantle all year, next to the internet router. This relates to the ongoing discussion on russian hacking and influencing of the U.S. presidential elections, and is even better understood considering the context of the Elf on the Shelf book. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ar80sFzViw - if anyone likes, please insert into the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.158.138.21 (talk) 13:54, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

The Elf on the Shelf retired in the 2018 parade
The Elf on the Shelf balloon had a last flight in the 2018 parade. 7 Appearances of The Elf on the Shelf balloon in the parade. He retired in 2018. He is retired in the 2018 Macy's Parade.

Advertisement
Without the actual history of the toy being mentioned, this reads as an advertisement and is not in keeping with wiki standards. 63.131.162.130 (talk) 13:55, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think it reads as an advertisement. Can you point to specific aspects of the article that are reminiscent of an ad? Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 13:57, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The part where it fails to talk about anything but the book by this one family. We should have a separate page for the book or else a section admitting the true history of the toy starts decades before this family wrote the book. To not mention that is a lie, and the only reason to lie is to advertise for the book, hence the whole page is dishonest and by pointing only to a book is an advertisement and does not meet wiki standards. 2604:2D80:A48F:300:24C9:CE2:2BA1:6980 (talk) 00:46, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * You may have a valid point, but your reasoning seems rather conspiratorial. I'm not sure I would jump straight to the conclusion that there is a covert attempt to deceive here, as you seem to have done. I'm not familiar with the history of the toy, but if you are, and if you're able to support it with references, then please, improve the article by including the toy's history. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 04:54, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Meme subsection
Hi! I added the meme section, and included a subsection for it, styled like this:

"You've heard of" meme
Another suggested styling is to bold the normal text without formatting as a header, like this:

"You've heard of" meme

For what it's worth, I suggested the subsection approach because


 * It adds a navigation option, making it easier to find (for example, I first came to this article looking for the meme, not the book).
 * It is visually distinct from normal text, so it seems less like a typo or strangely formatted/grammar'd sentence (this is personal, insofar as I'm unaware of the conventions for styling something like this).
 * It refers to a thing unto itself, which happens to be part of a Header 1 section. There are other memes that use Elf on the Shelf, and this section could be expanded to include and organize those similarly to the Television section.

Revirvlkodlaku, since I think you disagree and prefer the latter styling, and suggested a Talk page topic, I would value your perspective. :)

Mxbndr (talk) 19:46, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @Mxbndr, thanks for bringing this up. The main reason I prefer the pseudo-header is that I don't think subsections are necessary, especially as there is only one subsection—I think it acts as a distraction.

Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 20:23, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The section title is sufficient for convenient navigation, IMO.
 * The pseudo-header doesn't look like a typo or formatting error to me.
 * Perhaps once there are more memes in the section, subsections could be warranted, though I would still prefer to avoid them.


 * Fair. Thinking on this, perhaps a better compromise would be to remove
 * "You've heard of" meme
 * as a titled area entirely until other memes are added? Mxbndr (talk) 22:24, 15 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Mxbndr, I like that compromise; thanks for suggesting it! Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 07:21, 16 December 2023 (UTC)