Talk:The Emperor Jones (opera)

Thanks again
Thank you Voceditenore for another excellent article. Another wonderful read and an inspiration to me to improve my own standard of contributions. Thank you for this article and for everything else that you do for us at the opera project.4meter4 (talk) 08:36, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! I must say, I really enjoyed writing this and would love to see the opera. I've added a brief sound clip to the external links sections, and wish I could hear more. After Christmas, I plan to add a music section and cover the critical reception in more detail. Andrew Porter has suggested that what may have contributed to its lack of performances in the last 50 years are the racial attitudes reflected in the dialogue of the libretto (and the play) and the depiction of the islanders. They were very much of their time, but many find it unacceptable today, even for a work which is now basically historical. Apparently when Operaworks performed it in 2001, they made some changes to the dialogue. Voceditenore (talk) 11:58, 17 December 2010 (UTC)


 * How interesting. I don't think I've ever encountered an opera that had to be censored for racial attitudes (although Porgy and Bess certainly has taken some hits, but generally it isn't altered). Of course it happens within musical theatre quite often with revivals of Annie Get Your Gun (alla I'm an Indian Too) and Peter Pan (alla Ugg-a-Wugg). Often times those numbers are cut entirely or altered sufficiently to avoid problems. I think the Porter comment would be worth adding to the performance history section, unless of course you feel it fits better in the forthcoming expanded critical reception section. I look forward to reading it as well as learning more about the music. It's great to see our coverage of American opera improving. Maybe we can finish off the last of the Met premieres sometime next year. Have a very Merry Christmas!4meter4 (talk) 16:20, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

A Met first?
A thought just occured to me. It is probable that Hemsley Winfield was the first black performer to be given a role on the Met stage, albeit not a singing one. This by no means diminishes the achievement of Marian Anderson, but it would require some re-wording of her article (i.e. not the first black artist but the first black singer) and perhaps a mention/footnote of Winfield's achievement which seems to have been largely forgotten.4meter4 (talk) 16:28, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Performances in NY
The article says that the work was not performed in NY since it's premiere. I seem to recall that NYCO did it in the 1950s or early 1960s - but I don't have the annals to check. Can anyone verify? -- kosboot (talk) 23:08, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

A blackface opera
The point is, "blackface" is generally used as a pejorative, when that is an oversimplification. Performing Othello in blackface is not intended to humiliate anyone, quite the opposite. This opera was only stageable in its day in blackface. Eh?

When they finally record this, I will be buying it, since I've liked Tibbett in the part for decades.

Varlaam (talk) 17:51, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Acc. to Wikipedia: "Blackface is a form of theatrical makeup used in minstrel shows, and later vaudeville, in which performers create a stereotyped caricature of a black person."  This would exclude opera (and legitimate theater).  Wearing makeup to portray an African American is not the same as blackface.  For this reason, I think it would be a good idea to remove the category of blackface from this article. -- kosboot (talk) 18:00, 31 January 2012 (UTC)


 * :No Vaarlam, the point is, the category is you've put it in Category:Blackface minstrel shows and films. Can you explain in what sense this work, an opera, is a minstrel show, i.e. according to its WP article, "an American entertainment consisting of comic skits, variety acts, dancing, and music, performed by white people in blackface or, especially after the Civil War, black people in blackface."? Simply because the lead was originally played by a white man wearing make-up to look black, just as Othello was, it didn't involve "blackface" in the way it was used in minstrel shows or vaudeville. Furthermore, the role has subsequently been sung by black baritones, including Jules Bledsoe. Neither the opera nor Eugene O'Neill's play on which it was very closely based, right down to the dialogue, were written to humiliate anyone. Nor is his character an "oversimplification". He's actually quite complex. Among the black actors who have played the lead in the play are Charles Sidney Gilpin, who created the role, and Paul Robeson The fact that the Metropolitan Opera had racist attitudes in its day towards hiring black singers, does not make the opera itself racist. I suggest you read the various sources used in the article, as you don't seem to understand the background to either O'Neill's play or the opera. The category is misleading, and frankly comical. But if you insist on leaving it, so be it.  Voceditenore (talk) 18:43, 31 January 2012 (UTC)


 * That would also mean that any character who wears makeup to portray a black character in any kind of staged production is "blackface" - an untenable proposition. -- kosboot (talk) 19:06, 31 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I concur with voceditenore's objections. I don't believe this category is appropriate in this particular article.4meter4 (talk) 23:36, 31 January 2012 (UTC)