Talk:The Fabulous Moolah

Changes i made
I changed the years in her carrer, since they didnt add up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HeatGuyRed (talk •I [         Speial:Contributions/HeatGuyRed|contribs]]) 22:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC). <!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigne                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I WOULD LIKE TO SAY HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO MY MOTHER(NANA)  I MISS YOU SO VERY MUCH AND YOU ARE IN MY THOUGHTS DAILY. THERE WILL NEVER BE ANYONE TO TAKE YOUR PLACE FOR YOUR CAREER.NO ONE WILL EVER BE AS GOOD AS YOU WERE. I MISS OUR NIGHTLY PHONE CALLS,YOUR HUMOR,SMILE AND LOVING TOUCH.THERE ARE NO WORDS TO DESCRIBE HOW I MISS YOU AND HOW MUCH LOVE I HAVE FOR YOU.I LOVE YOU MOM AND HAPPY BIRTHDAY.

Title reign length
Can the length of her title reign really be considered a record since she wasn't really part of any territory? I read that she was in charge of farming out the girl wrestlers to any promoter that wanted to feature them in their territory. Since she was in charge of all the girls, she kept herself as champion. She wasn't designated a champion to carry a territory like Bruno Sammartino or Lou Thesz.
 * The WWE recognizes her as the longest running Women's Champion: WWE Fabulous Moolah biography --Naha|(talk) 04:14, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * She was a territory unto herself. Moolah "owned" girl's wrestling for decades, eventually selling the title to the WWF during the expansion. While the article focuses mainly on her in-ring career, her most important influence was behind the scenes, promoting woman's wrestling. I've made a couple changes to attempt to reflect this. 71.134.227.98 (talk) 06:30, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Picture
Can somebody please get a more uupdated picture of her??????Urena198 01:07, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Fmoolah.PNG
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Mary Lillian of just Lillian?
I haven't had a chance to read her book but I've seen her name as both Mary Lillian and just Lillian. I was just wondering which one it was because she has a daughter named Mary. (MgTurtle 23:18, 18 July 2007 (UTC)).

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 04:47, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Birth date
Could someone please change the date of birth to September 15th 1923. This is clearly stated under reference 2 in the gallery of her 80th birthday celebration. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.206.137.123 (talk) 19:50, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Death
WWE.com have reported that Moolah has died. Steveweiser 15:45, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * :( RIP Moolah. She paved the way for many female wrestlers today.  FaithLehaneThe  Vampire  Slayer  17:38, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

WWE.com is reporting that Lilian Ellison, 84, aka The Fabulous Moolah, passed away yesterday. Her last appearance for the company was in a backstage skit with Coach, Vince McMahon and Mae Young at SummerSlam '07. No updates on cause —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.202.145.2 (talk) 18:57, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a forum. Davnel03 19:55, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That isn't a forum post jackass. TheJudge310 22:37, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * a) It was noted above.
 * b) It was noted in the article.
 * c) No Personal Attacks. Davnel03 12:47, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * a) Don't come off as cocky and people won't get offended. There's also a policy that states Don't be a dick
 * b) Make it clear to whom you are speaking.
 * c) Posting links to policy without saying who you are speaking to and a brief description of what they did wrong is quite irritating. Angrymansr 04:03, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Davnel, he was trying to help, though he should have checked the article, since it was already listed. Judge, no personal attacks. Gavyn Sykes 22:48, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Redirection?
I think we should move this article to her real name and redirect this name to her real name. The rest of you agree? Govvy 17:34, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Not straight after her death when most edits are made. Maybe in a few months time. Davnel03 18:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, Rip —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.254.125 (talk) 03:46, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Okay, how about now? Govvy (talk) 14:20, 23 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure. She used the name Fabulous Moolah since the 1950s. I believe she is best known by that name, so the article is probably best kept where it is. Nikki  311  05:11, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. She is definitely best known as Moolah. - Geoffg (talk) 05:31, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I just like to be proper, but this wiki is a democracy so I guess no rename! :/ Govvy (talk) 06:59, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

There needs to be a redirect from "Mary Ellison." Not many non-fans trying to find out about this woman are going to know to put in her middle name. Kdammers (talk) 03:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Born
When was she actually born? This article states that she was born on July 22nd 1923. However on fabulous moolah.com (in the gallery under birthday photos), it shows her celebrating with wwe superstars in the ring with the date underneath, September 15th. I would just like to know. Thanks (PS. RIP Moolah). Lee 18:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * July 22, 1923 is correct. Due to WWE programming schedules, they can't always celebrate events on their actual anniversary dates. --Naha|(talk) 19:29, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Obit
The New York Times obit, from which some information such as cause of death can be taken, is at "Mary Lillian Ellison, 84, the Fabulous Moolah, Is Dead" by RICHARD GOLDSTEIN Published: November 6, 2007

Also, since I can't get in as an IP, could someone please remove the tribute paragraph at the end? Tributes are strictly forbidden, as is posting the whole or the bulk of a press release. See WP:NOT. --69.22.254.111 18:18, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Removed. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - &lt;*&gt; 21:21, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Death
www.nytimes.com/2007/11/06/sports/06moolah.html states that she died after shoulder replacement surgery and that she may of died from a heart attack or a blood clot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.142.11.223 (talk) 18:27, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

We done been ripped off!
This story appears to have yoinked some text from the Wikipedia article without attribution. One sample passage ("Following her divorce from Long, she dated country singer Hank Williams for a year") was just added on 3 November 2007 13:59; the Salem-News.com story is dated 5 November 2007 06:44. Discuss. Emurphy42 11:39, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It happens. --Naha|(talk) 14:53, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Mother & Father
It states in this article that her parents' surname is Ellisor. Isn't this a spelling error as Moolah's real surname is Ellison? Lee 21:26, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * For some reason this information has been deleted, but her birth name was actually Mary Lillian Ellisor, with an "r." She might have legally changed it to "Ellison," but "Ellisor" is what she was born with.  Her parents were Henry Ellisor (1882-1949) and Mary Suzanne Atkinson Ellisor(1887-1932). She had four brothers: Edwin, Chives, Murdock, and Bill.  The "12 brothers" was kayfabe.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stembark (talk • contribs) 03:54, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Please provide a reliable source for this change. Nikki  ♥  311   16:03, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * 1930 census entry: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SPCL-YBW
 * Father Henry Ellisor's gravestone: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=ellisor&GSfn=henry&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=43501005&df=all&
 * Mother Mary Suzanne Ellisor's gravestone: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=ellisor&GSfn=mary&GSmn=+&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSst=43&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GRid=43501046&df=all&
 * Obit of William Ellisor (her youngest brother), from The State, Oct 31, 1999:
 * COLUMBIA - Services for William "Bill" Duncan Ellisor, 80, will be held at 4 p.m. Monday at Spears Creek Baptist Church, with burial in the church cemetery. Visitation will be 6-8 tonight at Dunbar Funeral Home, Devine Street Chapel, which is in charge. Memorials may be made to Columbia Heart Center.Mr. Ellisor died Friday, October 29, 1999. Born in Blaney, he was a son of the late Henry Lee and Mary Suzanne Atkinson Ellisor. He was a retired warehouse supervisor with Dupont Industries. Surviving are his sons, Billy H. Ellisor of Green Mountain, N.C., Charles Henry (Chuck) Ellisor of Columbus, Ohio, Arthur Louis Ellisor; brother, Chives "Chip" Ellisor; sister, Lillian Ellisor, all of Columbia; eight grandchildren; eight great-grandchildren.
 * Obit of Chives 'Chip' Ellisor from The State, Aug 21, 2007 (here name shown as 'Ellison'):
 * COLUMBIA -- A funeral service for Chives Lee "Chip" Ellisor will be held 4 o'clock Thursday afternoon, August 23, 2007, at Shives Funeral Home Chapel with burial in Spears Creek Baptist Church Cemetery. The Revs. Paul Stephens and Otis Lee will officiate. The family will receive friends from 6 until 8 p.m. Wednesday at the funeral home. Memorials may be made to Spears Creek Baptist Church, 220 Spears Creek Church Road, Elgin, SC 29045. Mr. Ellisor died August 20, 2007. Born in Tookiedoo, he was a son of the late Henry Lee Ellisor and Mary Suzanne Atkinson. Chip formerly attended Blaney High School and was a longtime member of Spears Creek Baptist Church. He had retired from the Pepsi-Cola Bottling Co. with 30 years of service. Mr. Ellisor, an avid outdoorsman, was known for his "Famous Catfish Stew." He enjoyed penny poker and strumming his banjo. Survivors include his sister, Lillian Ellison, Columbia; grandchildren, Theresa, Sandra, Vicki, Linda; daughter-in-law, Gloria Ellisor, Lexington; numerous nieces and nephews. He was preceded in death by his late wife, Marie; son, Harold Ellisor; brothers, Bill, Ed and Murdock Ellisor.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stembark (talk • contribs) 02:58, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Ellisor is an anglicized version of Eleazar and indicates Jewish heritage. Ellison, on the other hand, sounds like a typical Scandinavian patronym. Due to widespread antisemitism in the US, many public performers found it useful to hide their roots. -- 2003:E5:172E:CAAB:917A:6507:26D5:1397 (talk) 08:00, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

JWPA title
Is anyone familiar with the JWPA title listed in her C & A section? I realize it is mentioned on her website, as cited, but that site doesn't say what the acronym stands for either. I don't find it on www.wrestling-titles.com or Solie's Title Histories. Is it something old and obscure? - Geoffg (talk) 08:16, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure. I would imagine, though, that it probably is a title from Japan if that helps. Nikki  311  18:49, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


 * My best guess is that it is from the All Japan Women's Pro-Wrestling Association, predecessor to the All Japan Women's Pro-Wrestling promotion. If that's the case, she would have held it in the late-50s to mid-60s, which makes sense. I guess I'm just wondering what happens if I challenge that "fact".  Is a mention on her website enough of a citation? If a title run isn't listed in Wrestling Title Histories, what is the next best authority? - Geoffg (talk) 15:29, 18 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Fabulous Moolah was billed as Moolah was billed "IWWA" champion during her tour of Japan Women's Pro-Wrestling Association (the predecessor to the more popular All Japan Women's Promotion) and lost the title to Chiyo Obata in Nov 1976. Chrissbergstrom (talk) 09:23, 21 July 2017 (PT)

Note
Just want to let you know that at Unforgiven 2006, at Trish Stratus' last match, Jim Ross states that as far as WWE is concerned, at that time both Trish and Moolah were considered 6-time Women's Champions. previously she was considered by WWE as a four-time champion. Was this just a slip up or is there other evidence confirming WWE's recognition of two more title reigns? 122.107.191.102 (talk) 00:01, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, it must have been a slip. On WWE.com's Women's Championship title history page it shows her as only a four time champion. Nikki  311  00:23, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

She has held the title six times, however 2 reigns are not recognised by WWE. Lee 19 January 2008, 17:32 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.188.116.52 (talk)

NERVOUS BREAKDOWN?!?!
I don't think its very polite to put that she almost had a nervous breakdown in the personal life section, i also don't think its right for the poor woman to tell the world the age she had when she first gave birth. Oh, is someone going to correct all the spelling mistakes in the personal life section? Kalajan (talk) 21:35, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

photo
I know that getting photos are "difficult" but can't someone get a photo of when she was young and sexy? I HAVE LOTS OF PHOTOS.IM HER DAUGHTER...MARYAUSTIN1300@YAHOO.COM — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maryaustin (talk • contribs) 04:30, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Controversial legacy
I hate to tell you guys this, but somebody with the handle "Tarantulacandy" on YouTube deleted the Controversial legacy section in order to win an argument: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--vkhYnE8Ls&feature=related

Move list
Did Moolah really use to do Flying headscissors and a missle dropkick? I know an article says that she did, but it might of just been speaking stereotypically, if that makes sense? Surely someone knows, like the sort of moves she used to do in her prime? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.13.65.217 (talk) 23:55, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Coelacanth1938 (talk) 19:19, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

From the article it very clearly describes her doing an ordinary dropkick and a headscissors takedown, which is performed in the ring, not a diving headscissors performed from the turnbuckle. The article in no way mentions her jumping from the turnbuckle. This is why I have edited her move list.

Fabulous Moolah
I am a 63 year old wrestling fan. I have been a fan my whole life. As I remember, the correct way to refer to the Fabulous Moolah is "Fabulous Moolah." The word "the" should not be used when referring to her wrestling name. This is not a trivial point. Moefromlatin (talk) 20:19, 8 April 2010 (UTC) moefromlatin

Image Suggestion
I think someone like Moolah could have a much better image for this page. The one on the page, looks... for lack of a better term... Low Grade. 50.81.18.248 (talk) 17:15, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Sexual and financial exploitation
Hi, I noticed that most of the training and promotion section is about allegations of sexual and financial exploitation of trainees. I wondered if this should not have it's own section considering the seriousness of the allegations? 82.9.239.174 (talk) 18:22, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Youngest of 13 children
Historical records consistently support that she was the youngest child and only girl of five children, not 13. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stembark (talk • contribs) 18:18, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Which "historical record"? Can you link it here? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 08:25, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Most of the information is listed above in the section on her birth name. The census records all show five total children for Henry and Suzanne Ellisor.  The obits of all her brothers list the five of them and no others.  Her biographical book was really the biography of the character The Fabulous Moolah, not Lillian Ellison.  She never mentions the names of her parents, and only mentions two of her brothers by name, Chip and Bill. Stembark (talk) 22:05, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Marriage to Walter Carroll
Her biography "First Goddess of the Squared Circle" is a source for some of the material, but is more a biography of the character "The Fabulous Moolah" and not of the person who portrayed her, Lillian Ellison, so much of the info is based on 50 years of kayfabe.

The part about her marriage to Lonzie Walter Carroll and the birth of her daughter doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't know when, or if, she graduated high school, but if she did on time, she probably graduated in 1940, as at the time, South Carolina had seven years of elementary school and four years of high school.

I found her daughter's birth announcement in a December 1941 issue of "The State" (Columbia, South Carolina) newspaper. So, she would have been 18 when her daughter was born. So I suspect she was probably 17 instead of 14 when she got married to Lonzie Walter Carroll. At least that's closer. From historical records, it appears he was probably born in 1919.

I'm not going to bother trying to change the article, as that info does come from a 'verifiable' (albeit dubious) source, but I thought it was worth pointing out.Stembark (talk) 22:23, 2 January 2020 (UTC)


 * I removed some of the info concerning her teen marriage as the conflict with published records. 1940 census shows 16-year-old Lillian Ellison [sic] single, living with her father and brother Murdock.
 * From "The State" (January 2, 1941):
 * Mr. and Mrs. L. Walter Carroll of 1617 Two Notch Road announce the birth of a daughter, Mary Etta Louise, on December 27 at the Columbia Hospital. Mrs. Carroll is the former Lillian Ellisor of Columbia.
 * That's Moolah's daughter Mary. Stembark (talk) 16:20, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Owning Ladies International Wrestling Association
I just noticed that in the article it doesn't mention anything about Moolah owning Ladies International Wrestling Association (LIWA). She was the promoter when the company started in 1990 and shut down in 2000. It was based in North Carolina. She worked and wrestled for them between her WWF stints. I believe the reason the article does not mention LIWA is because there is no article for this promotion. Anyone have more information about the promotion?Kingzwest (talk) 15:31, 29 June 2020 (UTC)(talk)

Found the promotion Ladies Professional Wrestling Association based in Laughlin, Nevada. She never owned it. Tor Berg owned it from 1989 to 1992 and 1998 to 2000. I must be confused then. Kingzwest (talk) 05:25, 12 December 2023 (UTC)(talk)

In German, they say that Moolah was the youngest of 13, while this (English) says 5.
I was randomly clicking around. Do you know which one is correct?? 199.197.71.32 (talk) 14:39, 31 May 2023 (UTC)