Talk:The Forge (Goya)

Pueblo
I am a little confused by the use of pueblo in the phrase - The figures are likely intended to represent the pueblo of the 19th-century Spain...Modernist (talk) 15:52, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't the Spanish people make more sense?...Modernist (talk) 15:54, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed, unless pueblo has a meaning other than town. 99.149.84.135 (talk) 16:00, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I took it from Hughes. I assume it means prole. Jesus, maybe I misspelled. Ceoil (talk) 16:01, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I figured it must have come from one of your sources, Ceoil, either Hughes or Boime. Giving myself away--the IP above was me. JNW (talk) 16:03, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I guessed. This is very serious JNW; and you have been blocked for 9 months. Hughes says "[coarse...faces]...to the point of pesant brutishness. They, too, are unmistakably representatives of the pueblo, hammering ot Spains' future..." Have I mis-intereprated? That would be fine - I have reworded in any case. Ceoil (talk) 16:13, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Good job! (deceptions aside :)...Modernist (talk) 16:22, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I;m still confused that the drawing was made 2 years after the main work. Its almost an exact copy; and given it was after, seems pointless. Ceoil (talk) 16:25, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It's okay--I'll block myself and say the mea culpas. The chronology throws me, too. We always assume that a similar drawing must precede the painting, but it's not always the case; I wonder if the uncertainty in dating the picture owes in part to its relation to the drawing. I'd love to find some sources on this... JNW (talk) 16:31, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Its highly unlikely the drawing came after the painting; I think an internet crawl is needed. Ceoil (talk) 16:37, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * not always the case. Yes, take Bacon for example, who made multiple versions of the images he was obsessed with, on paper, with oil, second versions, single canvasses, triptychs, dyptychs, doodlings on the margins of books, and on and on. Ceoil (talk) 16:42, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly. I want the drawing to have come first, too--it is most satisfying to be able to explain a logical process--but the differences in setting and jobs are notable, and there is the possibility that he was revisiting the idea from the painting in a different format. So far I've found nothing online, so after the holiday here I'll crawl through the library. JNW (talk) 16:45, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree, its tempting to assume, but we need to be jaundice. Holiday? Nobody told me. Ceoil (talk) 16:49, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * A friend of mine once had a show of gorgeous little paintings (approx. 5x10 inches) that ranged over a 30 year period from the 60s to the 90s and I asked him about them. He said that he always made a little painting after each big painting that he made, as a kind of personal record. I am assuming here that the drawing by Goya is after the big painting as a kind of record. Monday is Labor Day...Modernist (talk) 17:03, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Never heard of it. Ye get a day off work to commeate...labour? Ironic, no? Ceoil (talk) 17:21, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Labor Day is the demarkation of the final weekend of the summer (sigh), a kind of back to work reminder, just as Memorial Day weekend kicks the summer off...Modernist (talk) 17:58, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Sigh indeed. It got noticably more cold here this week, and the nights are drawing in. Bye bye summer. Ceoil (talk) 20:01, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Added a bit about the drawing, using the 1988 catalogue for the show that began at the Prado. JNW (talk) 18:54, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Aah, that clarifies, a bit. Ceoil (talk) 23:10, 10 September 2009 (UTC)