Talk:The General in His Labyrinth/Archive 2

Source
Guys, I just came across the following, which I think you should check out: Seymour Menton, Latin American's New Historical Novel. It has a section on TGiHL. PQ7082.N7 M477 1993 at Koerner, and available. --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 15:50, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, we'll definitely try to check that one out! But it may be possible that we have looked at it before (we raided Koerner for all relevant books when we first starting working on this) Eshiu (talk) 02:25, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Comment
I just received this comment, which I thought you guys might like, from a friend of mine, who teaches at another Canadian university: "Geez, what exactly was your contribution to that gargantuan entry on the General in his Labyrinth (an entry that would have been supremely helpful to the younger [friend's name] when he taught the novel back in the days before there was such a thing as e-mail, much less Wikipedia)?" Not, of course you'll understand, that professors ever really rely on Wikipedia for their teaching. ;) --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 17:01, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Late response I know. But haha. "Gargantuan" How flattering! Eshiu (talk) 18:45, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Bolívar image question
The internet archive link doesn't specify an author; if it's critical, I can probably track it down with some time and elbow grease. Manuelita was a babe. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 23:01, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That would be marvellous! Thanks so much.  --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 23:05, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you'll find it more trouble than it is worth for that one, Sandy, but the are hundreds (well, tens) where the artists are well known. Yomangani talk 23:12, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

(During the edit conflict, I came to the same conclusion :-) There are so many of them, that looking for one author probably isn't a good use of time; why not take another PD image from the sites above with a known author? could help (if you all are nice to him :-) Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 23:28, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Can anyone access http://www.retratos.org/about.php or http://www.npg.si.edu/exhibit/curex15.htm ? (mental note, exhibit was at Museo del Barrio, among others)
 * Can anyone access the book mentioned here ? http://guest-gallery.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default (I suspect that Boufton may be a typo for Boulton, a prominent Caracas family).  There are sometimes harsh criticisms of his work. In "los retratos de Bolivar" by Alfredo Boufton, there is the comment "A. Meucci was one of Bolivar's painters with the least realism. His drawing is often imperfect and his brush of a reduced and poor impression and colour blending".
 * Not here, but this site could be mined for a new image: http://venciclopedia.com/index.php?title=Categor%C3%ADa:Retratos_de_Sim%C3%B3n_Bol%C3%ADvar
 * This book might have it, if anyone can access it: http://yalepress.yale.edu/yupbooks/OnlineCatalog.asp?catalog=882562
 * I haven't time to find a decent reproduction now, but of the portraits the full length one by José Gil de Castro is probably the best known. Yomangani talk 23:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep; classic, don't know why we don't have it. For that matter, maybe we do.  Will search.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 23:43, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Why not just use Image:Simón Bolívar - Martín Tovar y Tovar.jpg ? Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 23:45, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Or Image:BolivarbyJosé Gil de Castro1825.jpg or Image:Bolívar por Acevedo Bernal.gif - both well known portraits. Yomangani talk 23:54, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * In fact there is an embarrassment of riches on Bolívar in Commons:Category:Simón Bolívar Yomangani talk 23:59, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you trying to make me sad? :-)  Gotta unwatch; in this search, I keep encountering these messed up Venezuelan flags with eight stars instead of seven.  Looks like you all have plenty of options now, and the world is well.  Except for that messed up flag.  Hasta luego de nuevo!  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 00:03, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, seeing this sad little attempt at reproducing Napoleon Crossing the Alps made me smile. Yomangani talk 00:11, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Though everyone knows that this is the best image of Bolívar that there is... --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 01:09, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! BEST PICTURE EVER!!!! Carlaty (talk) 02:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Link fix
Broken links, need a named ref, where's the book data, when you click on the link, it goes nowhere ?
 * ^ Margaret Atwood 1990, p. 1
 * ^ Margaret Atwood 1990, p. 1

Sandy Georgia (Talk) 03:33, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * This is fixed now. --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 03:46, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Something wrong in the refs and named refs here:

Reportedly fond of women, Bolívar was said to have become prematurely aged by the time of his death. ...  Of the latter, the General’s aide-de-camp O'Leary remarks in the novel, "His imperious and impatient temperament would never tolerate the smallest delay in the execution of an order."

They both point to Trend no page number, but the ref names indicate possibly something different. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 03:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmm. this is where that happens, I think.  Calling Eshiu!  --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 03:56, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Ugh, yes, this has got to be wrong. :(  --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 04:04, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * OK, I'm almost sure that the second one here should read . The complication is that at present the quotation is introduced as though it came from the book.  I reckon that came in during the copy-editing, but Eshiu, can you please double-check?  Thanks.  --jbmurray (talk|contribs) 04:13, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I've fixed that now. The O'Leary quote was not from the novel, but rather real life. I've reworded it a bit, hopefully it's clear enough. Eshiu (talk) 04:51, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Why are the minor character names in WP:ITALICS? Sandy Georgia (Talk) 04:58, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I tried to look for the right way to name minor characters, but I am having trouble. I am going to take the italics out, like The President's page. Eshiu (talk) 05:19, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Bolivar's name
So I was just looking, and in the novel, his full name is General Simon Jose Antonio de la Santisima Trinidad Bolivar y Palacios (on pg.37). But in the article and on the Bolivar Wiki page, it is General Simón José Antonio de la Santísima Trinidad Bolívar Palacios y Blanco. I have even found this, Simon Jose Antonio de la Santisima Trinidad Bolivar y Ponte Palacios y Blanco. Does anyone know what it really is...? Eshiu (talk) 05:09, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * With hispanic names, it's a matter of how many of your names you use, and which prepositiones you leave in or out depending on the occasion :-) I believe his mother was doña María de la Concepción Palacios y Blanco, I'm not sure who Ponte was, but some shorten it to Palacios for him. For your purposes, you must use what's in the source, the book. (I was the one who copied in his full name, and I didn't check the book.) Here is a good source that supports the version in the book:  http://redalyc.uaemex.mx/redalyc/pdf/309/30980205.pdf  Here's a fuller version (you can find others):  http://www.comunidadandina.org/bda/docs/VE-CA-0007.pdf  But it's just a matter of how many names one uses rather than a matter of "what it really is", so you're fine using the version in the book.  Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 06:25, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I've just fixed his full title to match the one given in the novel. Thanks! Eshiu (talk) 23:09, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Historical Context
maclean said in his FAC review that he wanted "more background on the pre-46 year old Bolívar, rather than Columbus and Bonaparte". However, I feel that whatever information we need on Bolivar is already talked about in his character section. And if I am not going to talk about whatever is written in Bolivar's character section, then I would be talking about endless battles which he was a part of before he was 46.

Any suggestions to address his comment?Carlaty (talk) 02:35, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You could bridge these two sentences The early 1800s saw the first attempts at securing liberation from Spain, which were led in northern South America by Bolívar. His dream of uniting the Spanish American nations under one central government was almost achieved. with a little detail on the campaigns, but I wouldn't worry too much about it. I agree that the necessary additional details are in the rest of the article: we don't really need to know about the man he was before except where it informs the character in the novel. Yomangani talk 01:37, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay sounds like a plan. Carlaty (talk) 02:48, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations
My congratulations go out to all editors of this Featured Article. Graham Colm Talk 21:06, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you GrahamColm! And Thank you to everyone who has been involved with this!!! We could have only gotten so far without your constant copy edits and constructive feedback :) :) :). Thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!! Carlaty (talk) 21:14, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Big ditto to what Carlaty said! Thanks for everyone's help! Especially the last while when we were busy studying for exams. We just finished one today and this was the first thing we checked! Thanks so much!! So happy!! :-D Eshiu (talk) 21:21, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

A story
I actually just remembered something that happened at the beginning of the term that was quite funny, I'm sure Carlaty will remember this, and so I thought I would share it.

The first day Carlaty and I went into the library at UBC to collect books for this article, we really had no idea where to begin. We were skeptical about the number of books that are on books. So we went to the help/librarian desk and we asked how we would go about looking for books on the book The General in His Labyrinth. One of the first things he did was type "The General in His Labyrinth" into Google, clicked on the first link, and told us to look at that page - which of course was this Wikipedia article page (minus the bronze star)!

It was so surprising and funny that Wikipedia would be the first thing he suggested us to look at. But at least now we know if anyone else goes to the help desk and asks about The General in His Labyrinth, (almost) all the information is there! Eshiu (talk) 06:15, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * This is why I believe one of the first things to do in an article is to get a bibliography up. It is about the most helpful thing our articles can offer. As everyone says, we are often the first stopping off point for information. I find when I look for bibliographies online, the results are often patchy. I wish all tutors/departments in all universities would publicly put their reading lists online: some do, and it's incredibly useful to the rest of us when they do. It wouldn't kill 'em. qp10qp (talk) 14:57, 20 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Qp10qp, your comment on first the bibliography and second the article is something I've come to agree with. Just a comment to put Eshiu funny story into context: the UBC library is either the second or third largest university library in Canada and UBC has a good graduate level library science program. If their reference librarians are consulting Wikipedia first, it is reasonable to think most everyone is doing it. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 00:35, 21 April 2008 (UTC)