Talk:The Gideons International

Article Criticisms
This article is essentially a brief description of the Gideons and a list of critiques against them. It needs the organisation's history, quotes from those who support it, and it needs to be placed within a broader context. This is truly only a stub now. However, some useful information may still be derived from this.


 * It is marked a stub, and I think that the article has no claim to be anything else. The critics are actually just a commentary I wrote right after reading a Gideon New Testament; I didn't mean to make it an attack against the Gideons, only to underline some traits of their presentation. I think you did a great job at improving my feeble prose. :) Rama 09:09, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The French texts refer to the Christ as "CHRIST" (without a definite article, and in capitals), which is a characteristic trait of U.S.-based fundamentalist Christian organisation.


 * This is not terribly clear. Does this mean that the French translation(s) distributed by the Gideons uses a non-standard form for the title?  "CHRIST" instead of "le Christ"?  It might help to specify what particular French translation this is.  Or are you referring to the French preface to the French translation that the Gideons distribute?


 * Anyway, saying that this is "a characteristic trait of U.S.-based fundamentalist Christian organisation" is maybe misleading. It's normal English usage not just among fundamentalist Protestants, but also mainstream Protestants and Catholics, to use "Christ" and not "the Christ" in most contexts.  It may be that the French preface was written by someone whose first language wasn't French and was unduly influenced by the usage of English-speaking Christians.


 * Besides this, the article seems to have some POV issues - too biased against the Gideons and evangelical Protestants in general. --Jim Henry 22:29, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * In French, "regular" Christians say "le Christ", and extremely scarecely just "Christ". Systematically saying "Christ" is a caracteristic trait of fundamentalist evangelical movements, typically whose roots are in the USA (even native speakers use this unusual trait); and the capitalisation "CHRIST" is really extremelly unusual among "mainstream" Christian movements.
 * The "CHRIST" issue is present in the preface (written by the Giddeons); the original biblic text uses the usual translations "Jesus-Christ" or "le Christ" (this particular copy is the translation by Louis Segond). Rama 23:04, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Intended as a gift?
Is it ok to take the bibles from hotels? If so, do they contain a message encouraging this or is it implied? 202.78.240.7 (talk) 00:33, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I know, I know, necro-posting, but its a valid question. Technically the bibles are property of The Gideons, not the hotel, and are left to be distributed. It stands to reason that taking them is entirely up to the guest and the hotel is given a handful of extras to replace them, while new copies are requested. --Axslayer33 (talk) 13:27, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

I have never heard that it is all right to take Bibles from hotels, any more than it is all right to take Bibles from hospitals. Vorbee (talk) 07:45, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

Aș dori să îmi trimiteți niște bibli pentru a ajuta pe alții să cunoască pe Dumnezeu Steopananton (talk) 12:05, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Preface
I replaced the back-translation from the French preface to the Gideon Bible with what appears to be its English original. There seem to be a few differences.

I would question whether anyone seeing a Gideon Bible, with any familiarity at all with the structure of the Bible at least, could mistake this text for a passage of Scripture. In the Gideon New Testament I am looking at, the text is followed by a brief index of passages for those who "need help" or are "in trouble," the famous translations of John 3:16 into multiple languages, and finally, the table of contents for the New Testament.

There are legitimate questions that can be asked about Gideon Bibles. I'm not at all sure that their densely printed Bibles with minimal apparatus are the best way to introduce people to the reading of Scripture. Without context and helps, a new Bible reader is apt to become bored or confused; at a very minimum, where the New Testament quotes the Old, a cross reference should be given. Gideon Bibles are hard to read, and not very good for serious Bible students. The accusation that they are misleading readers by mixing their own commentary into Scripture seems fairly wide of the mark, though. -- Smerdis of Tlön 03:07, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * I really don't think the current section on the preface has any place in an encyclopedia. It could go in a criticism section, if we have evidence that notably significant levels of criticism have occurred; but an editor's opinion that something is worthy of criticism is not encyclopedic.


 * Does anyone have a good reason why this section, from 'The unsigned preface in...' up to '...its sacred content")', should not be removed? TSP 15:19, 12 July 2005 (UTC)


 * How so ? The preface of this bible is a document in itself, and can be cited as such. It needs not be alluded to by others to be mentionned here. Rama 15:24, 12 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Ah, indeed - the preface can be cited so far as to say "there is a preface; this is what it says". However, the assertion that the preface is written in a way which may lead to it being confused with a part of the bible, and the comparison with Biblical style, is controversial Original Research, which is forbidden in Wikipedia. TSP 15:50, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Broken links

 * Iron Mountain, Montana ?
 * Locomotive breath (fixed).

What else to say ? I'm glad to find that reference to a Beatles'one. And the habit of opening haphazard a book like a Bible to find an answer to any question or to no question in particular is not so bad. Especially when you're alone in a hotel room and your gal has gone. --Harvestman 20:28, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Hotel Transportation
Could we at least provide a notice that there is a dispute? Enough people believe this and try to change it that it deserves some discussion instead of blind, ignorant removal. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.169.32.114 (talk • contribs) 02:46, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Seconded. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.30.189.203 (talk • contribs) 03:06, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

There are at least 50 people who believe this is fully plausable and possible, two of which are christian who read from the books given out by Gideons International. Give us at least a dispute, or you are going against god's word and punishing those who follow him. Peace bee with you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.146.19.236 (talk • contribs) 13:28, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The text in question appears to be copied from the following site: Unknown Armies - Rumors - Street Theory, which opens with: "Street-level rumors, story seeds, and anything else a crackpot will tell you for a pack of smokes". Not exactly factual content! -- MightyWarrior 14:04, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

It occurs to me that one could simply add this in as a "references in popular culture" thingy. "A popular internet meme suggests that holding the doorknob blah blah blah", something like that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.76.80 (talk • contribs) 05:35, 22 July 2006

It looked like blatant trolling to me when I first saw it, I think it should be left out entirely. Amusing, but inappropriate for Wikipedia. Uncyclopedia on the other hand... ;) Good to see the page is protected now. --70.17.45.238 22:09, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


 * It's blatant trolling. I first saw a screenshot on 4chan's /b/ channel, where the thread-starter posted a screenshot of the edited entry and made the sarcastic comment, "What have I done?" It's a juvenile game to them. Shanada 08:55, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It's an urban legend is all. Lots of people believe them. i changed the text to read "An urband legend states..." and then the full text of the legend as it was.  That should provide enough context.  Now if someone would just provide a link to a source, we'd be all set.LiPollis 08:27, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Apollo 8 mission
Thought the bit added to the trivia section was more BS, but some research proved otherwise: http://www.astronautix.com/flights/apollo8.htm Shanada 08:29, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Removing this anecdotal entry about clueless correspondent. The page cited has nothing on it. Besides, even if this supposed correspondent never seen or read the Bible, it's a bit of stretch to say he's never seen a book and mistaken it for a transcript, AND assume that the NASA slipped it in the bedroom desk drawer sounds like a typical urban legend. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.134.34.129 (talk • contribs) 00:31, 9 August 2010
 * Agree with the removal. I couldn't find anything on the page given as source that mentions the Gideons or a Japanese reporter. But without a connection to the Gideons, the entire section is irrelevant to this article, so I removed it all. Pais (talk) 05:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Auxiliary
Perhaps some information should be given about the Auxiliary as well. 68.113.47.82 17:45, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Only men can become Gideons, their wifes form their own organisation i.e. The Auxiliary Group —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.209.185.23 (talk) 12:43, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe adding this to the article may be of some benefit as there are a number of references to the Auxiliary, but there is no reference to who they are or what they do. 66.191.19.68 (talk) 19:15, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Color-coding
In my opinion, this is maybe a little American-centric, because i got my copy of the New Testament on the sidewalk before my school (which should be, according to the article, orange), but it is dark-blue. DavidSpanel (talk) 14:40, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Very good point; not being able to read the handbook in other languages, I'm not sure if there are different color codes. I do know that local camps sometimes will hand out the "wrong" color for expediency/budget reasons.Delfeye (talk) 22:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe I also got blue, think it was dark, more then once in the University of Auckland in NZ Nil Einne (talk) 11:21, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Also, every hotel I've been in has had a dark red cover. I've never seen a school edition so I can't attest if it's the same red, a dark red, or the burgundy one. I can provide a picture if requested.--Axslayer33 (talk) 13:30, 17 June 2017 (UTC)Italic text''

Translations
It turns out that our only reference backing up a statement about translations used is a website devoted to proving the authority of the KJV and the corruption of all other versions. Removing the reference necessitated removing the statements based on it. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:38, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I added sentence with published source for the Gideons' use of the New King James Version, but I don't have a source for what may have been used in the past. Loves  Macs  (talk) 15:48, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I have a Gideon New Testament in Japanese and English (facing columns); the English text is the New International Version, so sometimes the Gideons do apparently use other translations besides the KJV and the NKJV. Pais (talk) 16:47, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I found an old 1979 edition that lists its translation as "Revised Berkeley Version", which is the first time I had ever heard of such a translation. It would be interesting to find some index of which translations they distributed when, but I haven't had much luck on that. Kadmii (talk) 14:00, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Membership
This section as previously written asserted without source that the Gideons Constitution Article 3 specifically excluded members of specific faiths from Gideons membership or attendance. A reading of (and link to) the actual text in question provides a more nuanced set of requirements which mentions no specific denomination by name. The original section also mentioned as support of the Gideons' membership policy a school-prayer suit filed by a Mormon family and a Catholic family, along with a link to the relevant article; I reviewed that article, found that it referred to the Gideons only in passing and did not support the contentions claimed, and removed the link and reference. Wilsonchas (talk) 05:09, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * "Protestant or evangelical" I took to be explicit enough to specifically list in the article Roman Catholics, Orthodox Catholics, and Mormons as excluded from membership (the latter supported by source from www.lds.org, which describes the LDS faith as "neither Protestant nor evangelical").
 * As for the other requirements listed (believing in Jesus Christ as the eternal Son of God, the Bible as inspired by God, and receiving Christ as one's personal savior), I could not find authoritative source sufficient to specifically include or exclude specific denominations; I chose to leave in my revised article the faiths listed in the original text, noting the lack of authoritative information on their inclusion or exclusion.


 * any mention why membership is limited to "business and professional men"? Do they really deny membership to  laborers, artisans, etc?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 15.203.233.76 (talk) 18:32, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * No idea but professional here could potentially simply mean those with a job Nil Einne (talk) 11:22, 27 March 2011 (UTC)


 * The reason the Gideon membership is limited to "business and professional men" is because Gideons have to be able to be flexible during working hours in order to distribute the Testaments. I am a member of the Gideons, and this is how the membership limitation is explained in the Gideon Guidebook.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.243.155.201 (talk) 13:33, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

The Gideon Bible, taken as a book
Anyone know how these are printed? I have a green I got back in college. I love the cover/binding. It's leatherette (plastic) and done quite nicely. Other than some military manuals, I've never seen that. It just says Gideon Society or something on the inside and doesn't list the publisher. Do they publish in-house? Anyone know anything further about the Gideon Bible as a material object? It really is a nice book. It's fairly odd, too considering most everything lately is published in 5 1/2 X 8 or larger.Guinness4life (talk) 19:17, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I would imagine they do it in house, but I'm not certain of that. I believe any publisher is able to publish copies of the Bible because there is no copyright attached to it. I still have mine, presented to me in 1986, during my first year of high school. That version has a red cover printed with their symbol and "NEW TESTAMENT AND PSALMS". There are no details of the publisher, but inside it goes on to say "Presented to [my signature] by the Gideons International in the British Isles". Paul MacDermott (talk) 12:13, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It is contracted. PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages)Have a blessed day. 03:05, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

View of salvation
Article describes the preface as giving the Biblical view of salvation. This is subjective, recommend that it be clarified to reflect that this is the organization's view of salvation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.15.68.189 (talk) 16:36, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Name
The intro sentence says, "Gideons International (also known as Gideon's Bible)" ... Is the organization itself actually known as "Gideon's Bible", or is that what they're best known for distributing? Caduon (talk) 07:53, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I couldn't find reference to it on their website, so I removed it. Please let me know if I erred in doing so, thanks. Caduon (talk) 08:02, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

"In popular culture" deleted section
User:Federales deleted a whole section with this edit. Placing a link at talk page per WP:PRESERVE. Diego (talk) 21:47, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * "Fix problems if you can, flag or remove them if you can't."
 * Yes, I followed this policy. What's your point? Federales (talk) 22:06, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * That you missed the part where you notify others of what you did? Diego (talk) 18:25, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

"Unbalanced" tag
I removed the tag because, quite frankly, I didn't see anything that came across as unfairly presenting any opinion on the issue of distribution in schools toward one side or another. I also didn't see any relevant discussions about it on this talk page to explain why it had been tagged since 2011. 74.219.76.162 (talk) 23:35, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

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Prayers
This article could point out that some Gideon Bibles, as well as the Bible, have suggested prayers in. I remember the copy of the Gideon Bible I was given as a student and that had a section of recommended prayers for different situations. Vorbee (talk) 06:39, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * The only suggested prayer, aside from those suggested in the Bible itself of course, is the one in the back under "my decision to receive Christ as my saviour." I believe it is in all of the testaments except the red ones, which are intended for use in distributions on school property during school hours and have that removed due to the separation of church and state issue in public schools or doctrinal issues at Christian schools of certain denominations (like Catholic schools). The sections you are thinking of are the sections in the front that give suggested verses to read in certain situations. I have one of the orange ones in my hand right now (which could be used as a primary source per WP:RS, but it's tricky not to violate WP:OR while using it). By the way, I too have Asperger's Syndrome. Probably why I think outside the box on a lot of Wikipedia issues. PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages)Have a blessed day. 02:39, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

New Testament in schools
This article could point out that the Gideons give out New Testaments in schools, with one request - that people read the New Testament every day.Vorbee (talk) 06:50, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I’ve been in several schools and colleges and have never said this, so it must not be a universal thing. PCHS-NJROTC  (Messages)Have a blessed day. 02:50, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Worldview needed
This article as written is entirely U.S.-focused and lacks any coverage of Gideons' national associations in many countries, with activities in Central and South America, Europe, Mozambique, Kenya, Indonesia, Philippines, India, etc. Gideons is a worldwide organization but the reader wouldn't know it by reading this article, except for the title.  JGHowes   talk  13:38, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:09, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Gideons bible.jpg

Illicit uses of Gideon Bibles
I can't place the source, but I remember stories that prostitutes wrote their names and numbers in Gideon Bibles in hotel rooms, hoping to drum up business. I thought that was the reference the Beatles meant. Does anyone else remember this? RussellBell (talk) 04:38, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

''Now Rocky Raccoon, he fell back in his room Only to find Gideon's Bible Gideon checked out, and he left it, no doubt To help with good Rocky's revival'' Flight Risk (talk) 05:09, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I've never heard this story. I don't doubt that some prostitutes would've done this, but doubt the Beatles referenced it in their songs. Is this what you are referring to:

Hii sir distribution
Hello sir can I take a bible 2409:4064:258C:9402:EC08:E590:A7E5:470C (talk) 18:04, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Donation of Bibles for someone who passed away 2601:402:400:FC50:31B5:CB81:E8BF:FAE2 (talk) 18:15, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Tiny New Testament
Giddeon's also produce a "New Testament Psalms and Proverbs" size 118mm x 80mm x 16mm (roughly A6). It has a white cover. Inside it says "This Book is not to be sold."

A tiny dark blue New Testament with Psalms and Proverbs is also available.

The normal size of the dark green New Testament with psalms is 226mm x 153mm x 17mm (roughly A5).

See http://gideons.bible.is. MountVic127 (talk) 20:07, 20 April 2024 (UTC)