Talk:The Goon Show/Archive 1

Broadcast
A minor detail:

The Goon Show entry specifies only the BBC Home Service. However, I distinctly remember that some series were broadcast on the BBC Light Programme instead.

Tony (huge Goon Show fan in the '50s, but a newcomer to Wikipedia)


 * Goonshow.co.uk says that with the exception of two editions, all the shows were first broadcast on the Home Service, and then repeated on the Light Programme and the General Overseas Service.
 * You were right though, Wallace would sometimes introduce the show talking about the Light Service. —Vanderdecken&there4; ∫ξφ 16:41, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Bluebottle -> Kenny?
Where does this information come from? Is it pure speculation, or did the creators of South Park actually state that he was a descendant?--DooM Drat 16:26, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

Film
"...the closest thing to a Goon Show film, The Case of the Mukkinese Battlehorn (which also featured Sellers and Milligan but not Secombe)" -- what about Down Among the Z Men, which featured all 3 Goons and was ostensibly a Goon movie? --Woozle 23:54, 27 August 2005 (UTC)


 * you could argue that the character of the Mukkinese film was more like a Goon Show story where as the Z Men film is more conventional, but with Goon style humour included, particularly from the Goon principles in it, (Milligan, Sellars) Kevinalewis : please contact me on my Talk Page : 15:26, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Grytpype or Gritpype?
All sources I have seen suggest the former, but I don't know about the magazine reference towards the end of the article.

-- Every source I have seen suggests it is spelt Grytpype-Thynne --Crais459 15:41, 7 December 2005 (UTC)


 * it is Grytpype-Thynne but the spelling is so odd that many try out something phonetic Kevinalewis : please contact me on my Talk Page : 15:19, 30 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I corrected that article while I was about it. Kevinalewis : please contact me on my Talk Page : 15:22, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Teahouse of the August Goon

 * Delete - don't bother merging it - it doesn't exist - never did - it is just based on a line from one version of the episode "The China Story" Kevinalewis : please contact me on my Talk Page : 13:50, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I've redirected it here.--Drat (Talk) 10:16, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Fred Fu Manchu
Who played the character of Fred Fu Manchu, who was in more than one episode?

This Chinese character was definately in the episode 'Fred Fu Manchu and his Bamboo Saxaphone' (sometimes refered to as 'The Dreadful revenge of Fred Fu Manchu'). I also remember hearing him in another episode, but I cannot remember which one at the moment (it could have been 'The China Story' or 'Emperor of the Universe').--Albert 14:42, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Episode's proper title "The Terrible Revenge of Fred-Fu Manchu" but announced as "Fred Fu Manchu and his Bamboo Saxaphone"--Albert 19:02, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * After a bit of online searching and listening to episodes I conclude that Spike played Fred. external link. I'll update the page accordingly. --Albert 19:13, 18 April 2006 (UTC)


 * That cast list (like the chronological and alphabetical lists of shows) originates from appendices in Wilmut's book "The Goonshow Companion" based on his original research of the scripts etc at the BBC. So I suppose he should be the cited reference point when using any of those many derivative lists. AGoon 03:38, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Anxious Bluebottle?
Someone has added the following a while ago:

"demonstrating his Freudian castration anxiety: "Harm can come to a growing lad like that!""

Does such psychological analysis bare any relevance to Bluebottle's catch-phrases? I'm going to delete the reference to a 'Freudian castration anxiety'--Albert 18:52, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Besides all that, without a reference, it was essentialy original research, and hence did not belong.--Drat (Talk) 05:22, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Transcript references
I have edited the transcript references to point to a more up to date version of the scripts (the original homepages site ran out of space a few years ago :-)

The site (http://goonshowscripts.afraid.org/raw/index3.html) now contains a transcript of every existing Goon Show that I know of. Some only in very basic form, and in need of correction, but a start :-)

AGoon 03:24, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Background - collaboration and Coon references
I will change the "occasional collaboration" to "regular collaboration" - of the 238 shows described by Wilmut (referencing the scripts held at the BBC), 75 are credited to Milligan alone, 157 to Milligan and others, 6 to others (Larry Stephens or Larry Stephens with Maurice Wiltshire).

I suspect the reference to "senior programme executives erroneously" ... referring to the show as "The Coon Show" is wrong (can't find a reference to it). The show was indeed referred to, within the scripts (and ad-libs), as the "Coon Show", "Grune Show", "Goat Show" and "Babboon Show". Wilmut does mention the "Go On" show reference by BBC execs. --AGoon 01:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Dirty Jokes
I'm not sure what the wikipedia stance on this sort of thing is (I suppose I should go and look), but as it was an essential part of Milligan's sense of humour and the reason for sometimes unexpected studio audience reaction, it really should at least be mentioned in passing - I have formulated a possible entry, for the Goon Show article page, on my user page. Let me know what you think, I'll leave it a week or so before adding anything to the article page. --AGoon 09:28, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and add what you've got. If I think it's inappropriate I will delete/alter it. I take it this is something for adding under 'format'? --Albert 19:02, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I've added it, but without linked references as I'm not sure they're in very good taste and this is not a slang dictionary. But if you don't believe me do a google on "The good ship venus", "pink oboe" and "chocolate speedway".  There are many other examples throughout the shows. --AGoon 02:41, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

the dreaded lergi
There used to be a page on this! "lergi", being a highly infectious and disgusting disease is now a common phrase in Britain to refer to that bi-annual ailment where you produce uncontrollable amounts of snot and can't stop coughing up "free chewing gum".

Surely somewhere in wikipedia the origin of this term should be written!

PS. I am currently in bed with lergi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.154.39.2 (talk) 20:16, 8 September 2010 (UTC)


 * IIRC, it is properly spelt lurgi.

Corrections, and reversal to NPOV, required for this article
This article is clearly the work of fans. THE GOON SHOW is not still "highly popular" in Britain, any more than Vera Lynn or Max Bygraves still have hits in the charts over here, I suspect that this article was written by an Australian. It may still be popular there, and may for all I know be repeated on a mainstream channel and popular among younger listeners. But in Britain, it is only heard on the digital channel BBC7, and has not been any of the five network, terrestrial BBC stations for years.

Also, outside of comedy devotees, it does not have many younger fans, Python and Peter Cook's work having been more successful in crossing the age divide. (Who on earth would know who David Nixon or Sabrina are now, anyway?) It's a generally held opinion (stated in many of Milligan's obituaries) that the only people who till find it funny are those old enough to remember it first time round, generally curmudgeonly, fogeyish men. Tellingly, in the very first episode of the excellent Radio 4 comedy ED REARDON'S WEEK, the out-of-touch, middle-aged title character mentioned Neddy Seagoon, and did a quick burst of the voice, to a younger character who had no idea what he was talking about. The late Miles Kington stated in his INDEPENDENT column that while he adored it in the 50's, he found it embarrassing now, the same views being stated by John Peel in his autobiography MARGRAVE OF THE MARSHES. And the stage play YING TONG was a quick flop in the West End, the stage show of ROUND THE HORNE running for much longer. Dolmance (talk) 02:05, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Dolmance has a point. The Goon Show was at one time immensely popular. During its heyday that was common knowledge (i.e. popularity is self-evident at the height of any phenomenon), but now is historical fact (see e.g. McCann's 2006 book in references). However, today less people have heard of the Goons, and of those, less people have heard the Goons, and the same degree of popularity could not be claimed without figures from a reliable source. More people are indeed familiar with Monty Python, and can cite bits from the films and the more famous sketches, whereas this cannot be said of the Goons to anywhere near the same degree (I don't know about Peter Cook's influence, but I suspect Dolmance is right on this). This of course is why we need good encyclopedic articles for the Goons or any other historic radio comedies, including Round The Horne, ITMA, The Clitheroe Kid, I'm Sorry I'll Read That Again, The Navy Lark, and others.

Regarding current or recent playing of The Goon Show, I think Dolmance has a point here too. The show does not appear to be constantly playing on BBC Radio 7. Rather, it appears to play on a sort of rotational basis, amongst the other comedy shows. Their website shows the last playing as 1 June 2009 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0072vdz/episodes/2009), which was the end of the most recent such rotation.

So the following sentence in the article is problematic, insofar as it requires constant updating:

"The series has remained consistently popular ever since – as of October 2008[update] it is still being broadcast once a week by the ABC in Australia, as well as on BBC 7"

My suggestion is a sentence that is generic enough to not require constant updating, while still giving a pointer to anyone wanting to check it out: "The broadcasts of the series continue to occur with varying degree of regularity by services such as the ABC in Australia, and BB 7". Wotnow (talk) 23:18, 3 September 2009 (UTC)Wotnow.

Dolmance complains that the article lacks NPOV and yet claims that It's a generally held opinion (stated in many of Milligan's obituaries) that the only people who till find it funny are those old enough to remember it first time round, generally curmudgeonly, fogeyish men. This in itself is hardly a NPOV; neither does it include any verifiable references to its alleged quotes from Milligan's obituaries. And no, I do not remember it from the first time around; neither do the other loaded words apply to me. It is perfectly possible to appreciate and document the contributions by the Goon Show to innovations or developments in comedy in the same way as it is possible to appreciate more recent contributions from South Park, The Office, Family Guy, Little Britain and Twenty Twelve. Ant501UK (talk) 10:25, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Character relations...
Some recent edits have stated certain family relations between characters, such as Minnie being Bluebottle's grandmother, and Eccles Henry's nephew. But aren't these on a per-episode basis anyway? I remember one in which Eccles and Seagoon were brothers.--DooM Drat 06:59, May 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * Update: I decided to remove those lines.-DooM Drat 02:30, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

Eccles is ondeed referred to as "Neddie's idiot half-brother" in two episodes and in "The Very last Goon Show Of All"

But then again, the shows, along with the characters, have been located in time periods ranging from 49 BC up to 1985, so you have to take all but the broadest facts of the programme on a show-by-show basis--Crais459 15:48, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Occasionally the characters are named as relations of another character. Seagoon and Eccles are brothers in 'The Evils of Bushy Spon' (25/8th series) and Minnie is Bluebottles Auntie in 'The Giant Bombardon' (4/Vintage). But it is clearly on a show by show basis that this happens, and is generally not continuous. Of the 250 episodes less than a dozen mention family relationships at all.Yukka tukka indians (talk) 06:09, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Yukka tukka. I was once very familiar with Goon Show material, and have probably heard all of their episodes over the years (For many years, I haven't heard one that I don't recognise). I also once owned both books of Goon Show scripts. I have never seen any reference to family relationships, beyond as Yukka tukka says, a show by show basis insofar as it suited Milligan and his co-script writers at the time. The only constant relationships of any kind were the partnerships of characters: Henry Crun (Peter Sellers) with Minnie Bannister (Spike Milligan), and Moriarty (Milligan) with Grytpype-Thynne (Sellers). Eccles (Milligan) and Bluebottle (Sellers) were typically paired up in most shows, but were not in a permanent partnership like the aforementioned partners.

Regarding Eccle's being referred to as "Neddie's idiot half-brother", I can't specifically recall hearing that, but it certainly is within the bounds of how Eccles would be portrayed on an ad-hoc basis (he was portrayed as many things depending on the show at the time, as were the other characters). There was no show called "The Very Last Goon Show of All". It was called "The Last Goon Show of All", and I know it well. I'll check my LP and CD for the "idiot-half brother" mention, which I can't recall having heard.Wotnow (talk) 22:06, 31 August 2009 (UTC)Wotnow

Barclays Bank Flexidisc
I have a "Goons" promotional flexidisc dating from the mid to late seventies. No mention is made about it. I suspect that only Milligan and Seacombe were involved. Does anyone know about this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Awernham (talk • contribs) 19:43, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

The Orb
The article now mentions that Bloonoks flatulence sound effect was sampled by the Orb for one of their tracks - anyone know wich track it was?

Goon Show userbox
Add this to your userpage: --Drat (Talk) 03:30, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Great work! But is there a usergroup for Goon fans? (e.g. like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:User_piano-2) --Albert 18:15, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. The userbox now automatically places those who have it in Category:Wikipedians who are fans of The Goon Show.--Drat (Talk) 17:20, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't wish to know that. 86.137.253.42 (talk) 14:38, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

I'm embarrased to ask if anyone else knows . ..
. . . But I have read in a book purporting to speak in Spike's voice (which I shall check on my return from work) that Milligan's alleged attack on Sellers was not with a knife, but with a potato peeler (this is Spike we're talking about here). After some time of frenzied running around, Sellers finally twigged that Spike wasn't joking. ..

Has anyone else heard this version of events?Johno 05:13, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It's in Norma Farnes' book The Goons: The Story. It's probably reliable enough to put in the article even if it is Spike. --Bolognaking 20:20, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

On page 216 of Roger Lewis' comprehensive biography of Sellers ('The Life and Death of Peter Sellers', 1995), he describes the incident thus: "(Milligan) was up to his neck with scripts for The Goon Show; he was having to cope with all of the queries from the BBC producers, sound effects engineers etc.; his parents had just emigrated to Australia; and he was living in a smal flat with his wife June, who was ill, and a new-born baby named Laura. Sellers, oblivious to these pressures, and expecting to be enthusiastically greeted whatever the hour, would swan in late at night to play a new gramophone record...The frustrations were over-burdening and Milligan went for him with a kitchen knife. 'I was so mad,' he has since said, 'I thought that if I killed Peter it would come all right". June forewarned Peter, and Milligan was duly hospitalised. Wotnow (talk) 08:34, 3 September 2009 (UTC)Wotnow

Sorry to be a sourpuss, but this factoid isn't really relevant to this article as it's more to do with personal issues rather than TGS itself. It would, however, be totally relevant to Milligan's own article. -- Web H  amster  11:04, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Good point WebHamster, and I agree. My purpose was to answer the question, with a source for the questioner, who was probably trying to differentiate between historical fact and apocryphal myth. On reviewing McCann's (2006) book Spike & Co. for other purposes, I see also reference to this incident. The basic facts remain the same, including Milligan's subsequent hospitalisation, with some variation in the detail. I agree too that this factoid is more relevant to Milligan's article. Or equally that of Sellers, since it pertains to their relationship. I leave that task to another time, or to another editor who could utilise the quote above. The book details are: Lewis, Roger (1995). The Life and Death of Peter Sellers. London: Arrow Books. Wotnow (talk) 17:03, 3 September 2009 (UTC)Wotnow

I've changed the page around a bit...
... but it is by no means perfect. If anyone else wants to help tidy-up the page, getting information into the right areas then by all means go ahead. For example I've created the sub-section of 'Music and Sound Effects' under 'format' but I don't think that there is enough there about Ray Ellington. --Albert 16:57, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Versions of stories

 * There are inevitably multiple versions of Goon stories (one version per Goon at least), obviously difficult to say that any of them are the 'true' version of events - so every time someone adds an unreferenced story I have been trying to find a reference for it, preferrably in the words of a participant (rather than a third party) - this means I have been substituting versions of stories that I can actually source. I have no problem with people substituting other versions so long as they provide a good reference (I'm thinking of starting a wiki page just for all the different versions of Spike meets Harry). --AGoon 12:04, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Time for a trim?
We are now getting warnings that the size is greater than 32k (warning because this might cause problems in some browsers). Maybe it's time for a trim. There's a lot of good stuff in there, but maybe some things should be moved to their own page eg do we need every catch-phrase and time wasting example? Maybe an encyclopedia entry should be a bit more concise and just give a couple of good examples. --AGoon 10:59, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I'd say that music and sound effects can be made a bit more concise, some of the waffling in the Running Joke section can be cut out (e.g. in the Grytpype Thynne quotes section, some of that reads not at all like an encyclopedia), and Time Wasting can be cut to just, say, the four funniest examples. A lot of the quotes can be (eventually) ported to Wikiquote, and then just linked to that from here. If nobody objects (and object in my talk page, please), then in about a week I'll do it myself (except for the wikiquote bit - someone with a wikiquote account can do that, otherwise I'm waiting unitl the single login is implemented). —Vanderdecken&there4; ∫ξφ 11:14, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Personally I think 'Running Jokes' section needs a new page. It would be a great shame to delete huge chunks of it.--AlbertW 11:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Go do it :-) --AGoon 12:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Support - linked Running Jokes article idea. Style of inclusions should be tidied onced article established. Dont forget the "Bibligraphy" and "inline referencing" requirements. :: Kevinalewis  :  (Talk Page) / (Desk)  13:28, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Looking good :-) --AGoon 01:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Any objections to trimimg this talk page? I propose to delete stuff that is dealt with and unlikely to come up again 1)Broadcast, 2) Kenny, 4) Films, 5) Grytpype, 7) Teahouse, 9) Fred Fu, 12) Anxious Bluebottle, 13) Transcript refs, 14) Coon, 15) Dirty Jokes
 * Archive it.--Drat (Talk) 05:56, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, done (nb discussions are now renumbered) I've kept anything that looks unresolved or may come up again - speaking of which, I may in the future create a FAQ under archives to put re-occuring discussions (or ones which are liable to recur) --AGoon 11:47, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

'Archiving' & 'Episodes'?
With running jokes sorted, I feel like we should sort out the confusing Goon Show Archiving and List of Goon Show episodes. I believe these two should be merged to a) save space b) create a consise 'Goon Show Episodes' page etc. Thoughts? --AlbertW 15:06, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I was going to say no don't, but then looked at how little was on the Archiving page, so I say yes do it! :-) (everything from Lost Episodes down tacked onto end of Episodes page) --AGoon 01:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Revival restructure
I was adding Goon Cartoon books to the revival section, and found it rather an odd section, so have restructured it and moved films, made during the series, out (as they're not by definition revivals). --AGoon 10:35, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup
Would the kind person who pasted a cleanup tag into the article page please follow cleanup guidelines and put some commentary here, or use a more specific tag. --AGoon 19:32, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Unless someone is more specific about what they think needs changing (apart from the ongoing reference adding) then I shall remove the cleanup tag. --AGoon 09:24, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

As no details forthcoming from anonymous cleanup tagger, I have removed it. --AGoon 08:44, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Split "The Goons" from "The Goon Show" ?
Some of the info on the article page is about The Goons and some about their show. The two aren't quite the same thing - eg The Goons did some things together that wasn't the show.

To allow a bit more background on The Goons, what was happening between them before The Goon Show, and references to what they did together besides The Goon Show, how about we seperate The Goons from info about the show?

We un-redirect "The Goons" move stuff there about the group, with of course a major link to here.? --AGoon 21:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Goon Show
I was wondering if it is worth creating a Wikipedia:WikiProject for The Goon Show and associated articles. For those unsure what a WikiProject is have a look at WikiProject Gilbert and Sullivan as an example.

Vote Yea or Nay below whether you think this is a good idea.--AlbertW 09:31, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

References still needed
'''Here is a list of bits that I or others think need references. A lot of them are interesting stories and it would be nice to include them, but without a reference to where you heard the story there is no easy way to verify them (I've not found a suitable reference) (NB we don't need proof that they are 'true' just a pointer to where the story came from so people can trace it back)  I propose that if no references are forthcoming we move them to discussion (ok, I just did :-) and remove them from the article until referenced


 * Some of the later episodes feature electronic effects devised by the fledgling BBC Radiophonic Workshop, many of which were reused by other shows for decades afterward[citation needed].


 * The Goon Show was also famed for its unique library of sound effects.[citation needed]


 * Originally for the first two series the only effect was of a rusty, sinister chain[citation needed];


 * Milligan then went to an already prepared tape recorder and slapped both socks against a table, but was still unable to get the correct effect. He was then heard to cry "Shit!" and storm off, because, as Secombe recounts, "if truth be known, that was really what he wanted the sock to contain.".[citation needed]


 * One of the most side-splitting sound effects was the famous sequence created by the BBC Radiophonic Workshop to represent the sound of Major Bloodnok's digestive system in action, which included a variety of inexplicable gurgling and explosive noises. This effect kept turning up on later comedy shows, and can even be heard on a track by The Orb.[citation needed]


 * Milligan was absent from the show for twelve episodes in the third series after an attempt to murder Peter Sellers with a knife. The story was that he left his house and made for the Sellers household, but Milligan's wife managed to telephone Sellers before Milligan arrived at the door.[citation needed]


 * Sellers could be similarly eccentric. Once, around midnight, he turned up on Milligan's doorstep totally naked. "Can you recommend a good tailor?" he asked.[citation needed]


 * There are rumours that Prince Charles (referred to by Spike Milligan in the years after the goons as 'The Little Grovelling Bastard'), and his wife Camilla Parker Bowles, being both avid fans of the Goons, lovingly refer to each other as 'Fred' and 'Gladys'.[citation needed]


 * In a memorial show for Milligan, Terry Jones recalled that he and the Monty Python team, while trying to think up a new sketch, were confronted by an old man at the door trying to sell them a wheelbarrowful of manure. They took this as a sign from above and made a sketch in which a similar thing happened to an upper class dinner party. Jones was horrified to discover, years later, that Spike Milligan had created an almost identical sketch years before, and had gone to his grave believing that it had been stolen. Jones then apologised to Spike in heaven from the stage.[citation needed]


 * Although Python now seems to be the more quoted, it is fair to say that virtually all British alternative comedy in its modern form is based on the model created for The Goon Show by Milligan.[citation needed]


 * The Goons also had a considerable influence on the humour of The Beatles, and especially the writing of John Lennon. [citation needed]

--AGoon 10:20, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * One thing that has irked me somewhat, but I kept on forgetting about, is that some items may be copied from The Goon Show Site. That said, some items may have changed enough to make a google search comparison difficult.--Drat (Talk) 10:38, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


 * "Some of the later episodes feature electronic effects devised by the fledgling BBC Radiophonic Workshop, many of which were reused by other shows for decades afterward." I don't know whether the effects were radioponic or not, but they were reused for decades afterwards.  A note in the script book for The Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy says: "The splat of the whale hitting the ground was partially made up from the batter pudding splat from the Goon Show, a fact that might interest people who have seen similarities between the two shows."  And from the Doctor Who website: "The famous 'Bloodnok's stomach' sound effect from the BBC radio classic The Goon Show is used in a scene in which the Doctor tries unsuccessfully to reactivate the TARDIS control console." P Ingerson (talk) 18:53, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Adding to the previous comment, the "Bloodnock's Stomach" effect was one of several specially created Goon Show effects that ended up on the BBC Sound Effects collection of individual 7" vinyl records. These covered a vast range of sound effects, not just comedy; they were issued for in-house use only and played at 33rpm; each individual effect was preceded by a harpsichord note played backwards, the staccato "sharp end" of the note helped in cueing the effect. The effects were not commercially available. The comedy ones were on series EC7. Every Sound mixing area in both Radio and Television would have had a full set of these effects discs during the 1970s 1980s etc, so in the above case when searching for a Tardis Effect either the Sound Supervisor / Dubbing Mixer would have suggested it or it would have been already track layed by the Editor. "Radiophonic Stomach" was used in some Children's programmes too. Other tracks, which may have been originally created for the Goon Show but were certainly on the comedy discs had titles like "Man Dragged Backwards out of Piano", "Strolling Through Ovens"; there were also various whooshes, splashes and splats. Some BBC effects are now available from www.canford.co.uk with different numbering. Yes yes yes what I've just said is the dreaded "original research" but I offer it on the Talk page only as a fact born of personal experience and if anybody can convert it into "verifiable information" and thinks it might be worthy of inclusion on this or any other page then good luck. Ant501UK (talk) 23:54, 16 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Now the radiophonic workshop section does have a citation, but it cites another wikipedia article as a source, and the article in question cites no source. --graeme 1010, 1 December 2009 (GMT)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.4.45.115 (talk)

Infobox Radio
The Infobox Radio was screwed as the HiddenStructure feature it was using is no longer acceptable so I took a copy of the equiv TV template which had already been updated, and amended the fields to match the old radio template. The upshot is I left in a few extra fields in that template which may be useful.

In our instance of this template I added a list of the producers and narrators (announcers), so the box is now rather large :-(, what do you think? --AGoon 02:40, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, I just found out that HiddenStructure has been disabled (or shoudl I say "deaded"). --JB82 01:48, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly, it was the disabling of that structure that screwed the template.
 * I'm now intending to replace template:Infobox Radio with the almost identical template:Infobox Radio Station template:Infobox Radio Show and replace the template:Infobox Radio with a disambi-whats-it page to choose between template:Infobox Radio Show and template:Infobox Radio Station --AGoon 20:23, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Duh! Sorry I was talking about replacing it with the Radio Show template not Radio Station template! --AGoon 19:51, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Goon show trivia
Since I read the message on my talk page, I have considered putting the trivia back on to the main article. --JB82 01:45, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I see you've implimented your hasty retreat, it will be interesting to see whether the deletees notice ;-) --AGoon 03:17, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

If there's one thing I remember from Goon Show episodes, its that someone would always seem to find an opportunity to say "He's fallen in the water!" somewhere along the line. Noteworthy? Possibly.


 * "He's fallen in the water" was the catchphrase (and almost the only phrase) of the character called "Little Jim", played by Spike, not to be confused with Peter's Bluebottle character. Ant501UK (talk) 00:20, 17 May 2012 (UTC)


 * One thing I would like to see mentioned is the creation of the never-actually-heard character of Hugh Hampton, pronounced "Huge Hampton." This was a running joke on the BBC censors as Hampton was and is Cockney rhyming slang: Hampton Wick that's your prick. In all the years that this off-stage character was mentioned on The Goon Show the censors never caught on that it was actually an off-color joke. Dick Kimball (talk) 19:37, 5 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes indeed. Pronounced I believe as Hugh Jampton. The censors didn't notice other off-colour references either: Bloodnock: "I'll give them the Last Turkey in the Shop" (a reference to what these days is known as the Puppetry of the Penis). Bloodnock: "Where's me Butler's Revenge frying pan?" (a reference to a name given to the 'silent but deadly' variety of human flatulance) and phrases like "Excused shorts" or "Long trousers are a must with you" (both presumably North African Campaign jokes about men with longer than average endowments) and "Everyone back to their own beds!", (presumably a World War Two NCO's way of instilling nocturnal barrack room order in troops away from their wives for a long time). Ant501UK (talk) 00:20, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Impact on comedy and culture
This section seems to be full of little bits and pieces about who was influenced by or liked the Goon Show, with the implication that this developed their later contributions to comedy. But is there no article/ reference/ analysis out there that describes the effect that Goon humour had on comedy? --AGoon 19:44, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

At the time of The Goon Show, television was in its infancy, and radio was still the dominant electronic medium. So the influence was more salient in the 1950's, 60's and 70's, and in the documentation of that time. This influence is scattered throughout various sources, including numerous newspaper articles in the 1970's, 1980's and 1990's. Some blurbs associated with various artists recordings also made reference to the Goon influence. However, these are ephemeral sources, either scattered throughout people's collections, or lingering in the memories of the people who devoured this stuff at the time. However, over the years, various biographies have been written in which the Goons' influence is documented. These include Roger Lewis' (1995) biography of The Life and Death of Peter Sellers, The Python's (2005) autobiography (The Pythons Autobiography by The Pythons), and Graham McCann's (2006) book Spike & Co. Some books by the Goons contemporaries also refer to the influence. For example, the 2003 book Eric Syke's Comedy Heroes (London: Virgin Books). There are of course other sources which others will be aware of. The other thing that has occurred over time of course is that The Goon Show has gone from being a primary influence to an indirect influence. For example, The Goons and Milligan directly influenced the Pythons, who themselves directly influenced the late Douglas Adams, who himself influenced a different generation. So over time, the threads get lost, and we rely on soundly researched biographies and histories, hence the importance of citing them as we become aware of them. Wotnow (talk) 17:41, 3 September 2009 (UTC)Wotnow

The first use of the word Rock?
Unless anyone objects, I'm going to delete the ludicrous statement that "Bloodnok's Rock and Roll Call" was the first British record with the word Rock in the title. Offhand, there's "With My Little Stick of Blackpool Rock", and I'm sure others can come up with dozens more. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.162.131.36 (talk) 21:40, 7 December 2006 (UTC).
 * Well perhaps the first with "rock and roll", but either way doesn't seem to be an important piece of info (perhaps the first in the World to have "rock" (in the sense of "rock and roll") would be noteworthy). --AGoon 10:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Is this really Goon related?
Removed from influences on comedy & humour section:

The Who
The Who's first full-length rock opera, Tommy, came about after the idea of a Rock Opera came into the minds of Pete Townshend and Kit Lambert, after listening to the Goons' comedy song "Gratis Amatis".

Gratis Amatis is described as been sung in 'Goon show voices' but I see no evidence that it was sung by Goons or any other connection. --AGoon 19:08, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Um, um. Wait. Doesn't it say that the concept of a rock opera *did* come from listening to the song? Am I missing something here?


 * "In 1966, three years before the original release of this album, Pete Townshend played a tape of a spoof song called 'Gratis Amatis' to Who manager Kit Lambert. The 10-minute aria consisted of high-pitched Goon Show voices singing 'Gratis Amatis' over and over for what seemed like an hour. As they fell about laughing, a friend said, "It's a rock opera", which caused more laughter. Suddenly Lambert stopped laughing and looked thoughtful. "Now there's an idea," he said.""


 * Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 04:14, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

BBC7 no longer broadcasts Goon Shows
Hello,

BBC7 ended it's repeats of Goon Shows some time ago and according to it's Goon page and no next air dates specified. I think the BBC7 external link should be removed and references to BBC7 edited to be past tense. Hope this helps

Kind regards Lee

CORRECTION - BBC7 now appear to be broadcasting Goon Shows - please ignore! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.18.126.156 (talk) 17:28, 24 February 2007 (UTC).

Public Domain?
Surely the earlier episodes are public domain now, being that 50 years since release have passed. Or am I very wrong?--Shadebug 16:51, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Whether they are in the PD or not, some episodes are being sold that way on eBay. Proteus71 20:11, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * For "broadcasts" the period is 50 years however for "literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works" it is 70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the last remaining author of the work dies. The BBC strictly enforces re-publication of the Goon Show without their consent as the scripts are fall under this classification.86.176.164.80 (talk) 13:53, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Cartman and Bluebottle
There should be a mention that Cartman from South Park's voice is based on Bluebottle. For instance both say Authorata! instead of Authoraty, and when the going gets tough both go home. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Djarra 18:48, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * That's original research without a relible source making that observation, or better yet, word from the creators of South Park.--Drat (Talk) 21:07, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * No way. The comparison isn't close enough. If indeed Cartman's voice really was (somewhat) based on Bluebottle, it only really needs to be mentioned on the Cartman page --AlbertW 20:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Goon Show Preservation Society
I have just created a stub article for the Goon Show Preservation Society. Regular editors of this article may be able to help expand it. Dbromage 02:50, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Books by Milligan
Are the following books by Milligan relevant to this article? If so, should they be added to the Bibliography section, or where? They aren't listed in the Spike Milligan article either, as far as I can see.

The Goon Show Scripts, More Goon Show Scripts, Milligan's Ark. GilesW 11:41, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

These have now been cited within the article and listed in the reference section. They have also been added to the list of books in the Spike Milligan article. Wotnow (talk) 07:54, 3 September 2009 (UTC)Wotnow

Trimming
This is not a fansite. There is a lot of excess detail that needs trimming. Not every example of some aspect of the show, like time-wasting segments or fourth-wall-breaking, needs to be listed. I have also cleaned up the section about the play Ying Tong: A walk with the goons. It was peppered with personal opinions and the advertising blurb is not needed.--Drat (Talk) 02:23, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that the article badly needs improvement. However, most of your deletions are not improvements. They are deletions of material which brought information and value to the article. Most of those sections should be re-written - not deleted. Mlewan (talk) 06:33, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd like to know how having fifteen examples under "Communication with the radio audience" is somehow valuable. The four I left get the point across well enough.--Drat (Talk) 07:01, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Fifteen examples without explanations are admittedly too much. My point is that it would have been better to add proper explanations than to remove the examples. However, as neither of us seems able or willing to take the time to provide good explanations, it would not be feel right to add the examples back either. Let's leave them out for the time being. Mlewan (talk) 15:16, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Certainly prose is better than bullet points in these situations. Even then, only a few examples are needed, and it still needs to be backed up with sources such as the Goons' writings/interviews, etc. about the show, as well as third party sources. There are several sections where it is clear no other source has been consulted by the editor(s) except for recordings/transcripts of the show and then that info has been used to write about the nature of the show, which is original analysis.--Drat (Talk) 02:15, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * An article on The Goon Show certainly ought to be GA-Class and maybe even A-Class. If this article is reorganised to be less of a fan piece and more of a compendium of properly sourced information, it will get there.  It's merely OK right now, but there is such a lot of documentation on the show that it should be a lot better.  I will start looking for citations, and if I have time I will see if I can clean up the style as well. With regard to sources, it isn't difficult to prove that the Goons were highly influential on both Python and the Beatles, if only because Python and the Beatles said so themselves in their respective collective autobiographies, both of which I own.


 * The style is particularly bad. It looks like it's been revised by a lot of different people with a lot of different points they wanted to make about the show.  I have cleaned up the first paragraph a bit and added a reimprove template to remind us to find proper sources.  The Background section is a mess; I have done a temp revision by putting the first paragraph where it obviously should have been all along, namely as the last paragraph, but this is only a stopgap and I will go through it properly when I can.  Elsewhere, there is either too little information or too much.  Although the quoted bit is funny, I suspect that it violates WP: COPYRIGHT because it's an actual extract from a script.  There are resources on the web where you can read entire transcripts of the show, and you can buy recordings of a lot of it; we don't need to provide that stuff here, as it just clutters up the article.  We need to strike a balance between giving a flavour of the show and providing a serious article about it. Any thoughts and comments are welcome. Lexo (talk) 22:28, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The quoted script takes up a lot of space, and it doesn't directly support the statements in the Surrealism section (Lewis Carroll was very influential, and perfectly capable of producing exactly such nonsense 80 years before). However, it doesn't seemto the point of being a copyright violation -- using personal property in a limited way is the whole idea behind "fair use", etc. I agree with the drift of what you are suggesting, Lexo: Here's an example of two editors trying politely to include what are two quite different viewpoints(?):


 * "The Goon Show was cited as entertaining without resorting to sexual innuendo. However, this is because many listeners didn't understand the sexual jokes in the show."


 * The first sentence is backed by a non-authoritative source (a rambling essay by answers.com), and the second isn't given a citation at all. So, there's work to be done. In good humor, though, of course. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 00:22, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Beatles reference removed
The Beatles were very interested in comedy, and knew The Goon Show, but it shouldn't be called a major influence on them. Buddy Holly? Yes. Elvis Presley? Yes. Little Richard? Yes. But The Goon Show barely influenced their music or lyrics. A couple sentences later in the article, describing their interactions with Peter Sellers, etc., with quotations would be in order, though. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 06:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Although it didn't have any influence on their music, The Goons had a major influence on their movies, therefore I feel the removed text should be put back. -- Web H amster  23:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Their movies weren't written by them (except Magical Mystery Tour), and they didn't even speak the lines in Yellow Submarine. They had little control over any movie, except Magical Mystery Tour and Let it Be. Also, there's no proof that The Goon Show had a major influence what it was that made the Beatles great, or the people doing those movies (although I think Richard Lester (Help, Hard Day's Night director) was a big Goon fan, too. I could look it up. But that would make the Goons a big influence on Richard Lester, not on the Beatles, as such.)


 * The Goons were great, the Beatles were great. The Beatles loved the Goons. But saying they were a major influence? This is subjective and original research. And has no citation, so is contrary to WP:SOURCE. So, I'm removing the reference. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 23:42, 6 August 2008 (UTC) ("Have a gorilla?" "No thanks, I'm trying to give them up.")


 * P.S. There is a section further on in the article, where there's a quote from John Lennon. That seems pretty laudatory. Is that good enough for government work? Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 00:02, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Rather than repeat what I've written in reply to your message on my talk page I'll just point you in that direction. One thing I can see is that "major" is wrong. The Goons certainly did have an influence on the Beatles, but I can't (and shouldn't have) say it was a major one. I realise that the article doesn't refer to it as 'major', though I'm not totally sure what is meant by the use of "singular" in that section, and I didn't mean to refer to it as 'major' above (not that you were to know that). As for the quote, well if it can be sourced from somewhere else then maybe, but a Geocities website isn't what could be called a verified or reliable source. -- Web H amster  01:32, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Further to this is something I read whilst on IMDb on Lester's bio page, and I realise it's not a reliable source which is why I have no intention of adding it into any article, but it does answer your statement about how the Beatles didn't have any say. "Aside from "A Hard Day's Night", the success of which relies as much on The Beatles themselves as auteurs (Lester claims that the script by Alun Owen was largely jettisoned during filming, and its scripted quips were replaced by the real things from The Beatles themselves)". -- Web H amster  01:42, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * That's a point. The Beatles did do some ad-libbing during the film. Actually, I was just reading something about Help, apparently the Beatles were using marijuana so much on the set, it was hard for them to even remember the lines! Heh, heh. But that isn't so much a "Goon" influence as a "drug" influence...speaking of which, were the Goons much influenced by drugs? Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 03:47, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, alcohol --AGoon (talk) 21:14, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The MTC DVD release of Help! (1965) has The Running Jumping and Standing Still Film (1960) included as an example of humour that appealed to the Beatles. It was also apparently why Dick Lester was hired to direct the first two Beatles' films. Bloodnok (talk) 21:21, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It is IMO worth noting that Richard Lester in fact worked with The Goons in the '50s, as the director of the first Goons-related TV show, The Idiot Weekly, Price 2d, made in 1956, written by Milligan and starring Sellers - Dunks (talk) 04:44, 30 July 2009 (UTC).

Lennon says his humor is not like the Goons
From 1963 interview:

Q: "It's said, John Lennon, that you have the most 'Goon-type' humor of the four Beatles."

JOHN: "Who said that?"

Q: "I think I read it in one of the newspapers."

JOHN: "You know what the newspapers are like."

Q: "I don't know. What are they like?"

JOHN: "Wrong."

Q: (laughs) "This is going wrong... I want to get a nice 'Personality' bit."

JOHN: "I haven't got a nice personality."

Q: (laughs) "Is this evidence of Goon-type humor?"

JOHN: "No, I don't think I really have Goon-type humor. That's just an expression people use."

http://www.geocities.com/~Beatleboy1/db1963.1210.beatles.html Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 00:45, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Unteroffizier Krupp
I have been trying to find evidence that the name "Unteroffizier Krupp" was used as a character name by Milligan. I can not find it in any published script, or in the goon show bible "The Goon Show Companion". It may have been used in "The Tale of Men's Shirts" as published in "The Book of the Goons" by Elizabeth Rose but I haven't got a copy of that. The name comes up on google in relation to character lists, but they appear to have sourced their material from here. --AGoon (talk) 21:43, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Entry added by Special:Contributions/161.65.16.253  --AGoon (talk) 22:12, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No mention of "Krupp" in alt.fan.goons newsgroup. This is only a very minor character so I am going to delete references to this name for the character, and expect someone to provide references/evidence of it being a Milligan character name.  I may be wrong of course ;-) --AGoon (talk) 22:16, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

The name you refer to does not appear in any of the extant Goon Shows. However, Milligan DOES use a name like this in the Q series. I am not an authority on those series, but the particular scene - (Bath Scene) involves an underwater Police Inspector who comes up in a bath. It is viewable on youtube at - http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=hwqoOMPcpws Yukka tukka indians (talk) 23:52, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Character Catch Phrases Challenge
I can find lots of examples of Bluebottle being quoted in other places as saying "You dirty rotten swine you", but I can't find a single instance in any of the scripts or recordings I have where he uses the form "dirty rotten" - 'dirty' seems to have been added by the people quoting the character. I'd love to see at least one citation of it in this form, or see it corrected to "you rotten swine you" (and not "you dirty rotten swine" as often quoted).

I'd like to know in which Goon Shows willium mate says "you can't park 'ere mate". I can think of one where he might have done but I don't have the recording to hand. Presumably to call something a catchphrase it needs to be used frequently - or be especially revealing about the character. Willium Mate generally just says "mate" a lot.Tolken (talk) 07:12, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

I seem to remember an episode in which a prison was taken out to the Irish Sea, for some doubtless excellent reason. Early on, Willium says "You can't park 'ere mate, you'll 'ave to move along" and Bloodnok (I think) responds "How would you like to join the river police". Willium: "I'd like that very much sir" [Loud splash]. Later, the prison is stopped in the Irish Sea because a prisoner tries to escape by digging his way out causing the prison to start sinking and Willium's "You can't park 'ere mate, you'll 'ave to move along" gets the response "I thought you were in the river police!" to which willium responds "I've been promoted, mate". It all made perfect sense at the time. In a way it still does. John C Kay (talk) 02:21, 16 August 2013 (UTC)


 * The episode you refer to is Tales of Old Dartmoor and it is on YouTube here: - Governor Seagoon decides to take the prisoners and prison on a holiday abroad.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.148.220.15 (talk) 01:05, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Origin of Name
The Goon Show, a title which Milligan was quoted as being inspired by a Popeye character.[1]

Actually this is only true indirectly. The name does come from the characters in the Popeye cartoons but the show got its name because British POWs referred to their German guards as 'Goons' in reference to the characters in the cartoon. Michael Bentine has stated this on at least one occasion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.112.68.219 (talk) 20:12, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Recordings available?
I would really find it useful if, somewhere, in the article, it was mentioned whether recordings of the show are available for purchase (ideally, what different versions might exist, too). I can see that there were Goon Show records and movies but are there CD recordings of the show available? I know there is restoration of old shows is probably on-going but it sounds like the later seasons were archived and could be circulated if the BBC decided to. 69.125.134.86 (talk) 23:24, 15 April 2013 (UTC)


 * As of 2015 the most complete source of Goon Show recordings on CD is the box set series The Goon Show Compendium (final set scheduled for release Novemer 2015), containing almost all of the episodes from Series 5-10 in their most complete available versions, plus extensive extras and sleeve notes. 12 episodes to which EMI holds commercial rights are only available in abridged form on three double-CD sets from that company. Many of the episodes on the Compendium sets have also been released on unabridged double-CD sets from the BBC; Volume 8 also includes the series 4 episode "The Greatest Mountain in the World", while Volume 30 includes the pre-5th season special "The Starlings". Four further Series 4 episodes, taken from the only surviving off-air versions, appear on a double CD set The Goon Show Series Four, Part One. "Part Two" is not forthcoming as of October 2015 although other off-air recordings from Series 4 are believed to exist. Lee M (talk) 23:06, 22 October 2015 (UTC)


 * As noted in List of The Goon Show episodes, Volume 11 of the Compendium includes "Dishonoured—Again", "The Scarlet Capsule", and "The Tale of Men's Shirts", all of which were previously only released by EMI. So either the rights have reverted to the BBC or else EMI and the Beeb have come to an arrangement.

External links modified
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Page numbers in references
Some editor(s) has/have been adding in page numbers to various footnoted references, which is very commendable and helpful for verifying facts. However, they seem to have been unaware of the Template:RP feature in Wikipedia, which was created to handle the case of multiple different page refs to the same publication. Use of this feature avoids much tedious repetition of identical bibliographic information, differing only in the page numbers, and provides the page numbers in a handy but unobtrusive way. Some editor has attempted to approximate this feature by adding "(a) pp.4, 5, 61; (b)p.183, (d) pp.180, 181, (e)p.203" in the footnote by McCann, for example. The biggest problem with this improvised method is that if another editor later inserts another reference to McCann earlier in the article, the footnotes will all be reassigned different letters, which will now be incorrect.

I have attempted to clean up various references to the Goon Show Companion, by Wilmut and others, which you can see in my recent edit. I was very careful to leave references to specific chapters by name or specific quotations, intact and separate, while combining ordinary basic references together. I will probably leave it to other editors concentrating on this article to work on the other references, if they wish.

For interested editors, there is a very useful introduction to some of the more useful referencing tools at WP:REFSTART. The section "Same reference used more than once" is particularly relevant. Cheers! Reify-tech (talk) 21:15, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
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Past or present?
The Goon Show is a British radio comedy programme I changed 'is' to 'was', but got reverted. What is the rule about this? Valetude (talk) 09:54, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
 * MOS:TENSE says:
 * "By default, write articles in the present tense, including those covering works of fiction (see Writing better articles ) and products or works that have been discontinued. Generally, do not use past tense except for past events and subjects that are dead or no longer meaningfully exist. A good rule of thumb is that unless a subject has a specific expiration date (such as a person's death, a company's closure, or an event's end) then the present tense is appropriate."
 * Radio and television programs are often recorded and therefore still available to be listened to or watched, therefore all these articles are supposed to be written using "is". JustinTime55 (talk) 20:01, 29 April 2020 (UTC)