Talk:The Haunted Mansion/Archive 1

THERE IS NO WALT DISNEY IN THE GRAVEYARD!!!
Pardon my frustration, but I really feel like this needs to be said.

I just edited this statement in the Trivia section:

"It is also considered that the second (from left to right) Singing Bust, the one with his head broken off and sideways, is the face of the legendary park Creator, Walt Disney. Though there is a remarkable resemblance, there is no proof to whether or not it is truly him."

There is a lot of proof that it isn't him.

But most importantly,
 * It is pretty commonly known that Thurl Ravenscroft provided both the audio and the video for the lead singing bust.
 * With the notable exception of providing the voice of Mickey Mouse in his earliest appearances, Walt Disney rarely if ever appeared in any of his productions, except as a spokesman or host.
 * Walt Disney had passed away before any production had started on The Haunted Mansion. The attraction was still in its conceptual phase when he died.

I've heard this rumor before and it never ceases to annoy me. Granted, not everybody knows everything about Disney, but that is a prime reason why you DO NOT CONTRIBUTE RUMORS WITHOUT FACT CHECKING FIRST! Justin The Claw (talk) 15:57, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Heh, I changed it to "It was rumored that the" so the sentence is now clear. -- blm07 17:13, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

999 happy haunts?
There are actually about 1000ish happy haunts in the ride, and 12 people died or were killed while riding. which makes the minimum about 1011 happy haunts, not 999

I know its the catchphrase, but still we need facts! this is a wikipedia article not a disneypedia artice! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bearflip (talk • contribs).

According to the story, it's 999. So when you describe the story, it is fact. However, there are not 999 ghosts in the actual attraction, so in that context it's not true. But to say there aren't 999 ghosts when you are describing the backstory of the mansion would actually NOT be a fact. And it's not actually a catchphrase. A common description yes, but a catchphrase in the strictest sense it is not.

But that's not true at all...there are far fewer than 999 characters in the ride, and no one has ever died inside... Datameister 17:37, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Disney's Haunted Mansion
I moved the page from "Disney's Haunted Mansion" to "The Haunted Mansion". Many Disney properties have "Disney's" as part of their official names (like Disney's Grand Floridian Resort or Disney's The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad), but the Haunted Mansion is not one of them. Brian Kendig 13:14, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Flowery language
As fascinating as this article is, it needs to be more about detached facts and less like it's written by Disney to get you in the HM mood. It's an encyclopedia. It can use some tweakings.

Can't it have a bit of both? Even the best encyclopedias use flowery language from time to time. This does not have to be completely dry and detached...right?

Pepper's Effect?
The article mentions "Pepper's Effect" to explain the dancing ghosts in the ballroom, but it links to a non-existent article. Could someone please flesh out the meaning of this?


 * The term is actually "Pepper's Ghost." The effect uses a half glazed mirror or glass with a bright room or object behind it. With appropriate lighting, the person observing the effect being in dark or half dark, sees the room behind the glass without observing the glass at all. At the appropriate moment, a light is shined on a person or object in front of the mirror, but not visible to the person observing the effect so that they see the object reflected in the glass at the same time they are seeing the room behind the glass. It appears to the observer that the newly illuminated object has mysteriously appeared in the room behind the glass. This effect is used in The Grand Hall scene of the Haunted Mansion where the Grand Hall is behind the glass and the ghosts which appear and disappear are underneath the attractions omnimover cars carrying the guests. As the lighting on the ghosts fades in and out, the ghosts appear and disappear in the Grand Hall.


 * The illusion is named after John Henry Pepper, a professor of chemistry at the London Polytechnic Institute, who developed the effect for use in a theater in 1862.


 * Reference: Surrell, Jason (2004) The Haunted Mansion: From The Magic Kingdom to the Movies, Disney Editions, New York (p. 72)


 * Bill 04:41, Mar 16, 2005 (UTC)


 * Someone has now written an article about the effect. I added mention of the HM ballroom to that article. —Datameister 02:27, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Movie
What about that Disney movie that's based on Haunted Mansion? --Abdull 20:49, 10 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Here you go: The Haunted Mansion (movie). I've put a wikilink in the See also section of this article in case anyone happens to be looking for the film, but they are more than likely going to be looking for the attraction, not the sub-par film. --Evanwohrman 06:59, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

Music
I've written an article about the Mansion's theme song, Grim Grinning Ghosts. Anyone who knows what they're talking about is welcome to contribute. —Datameister 02:27, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Phantom Manor Narration
I corrected the statement about the narration by Vincent Price was 'never used'. Yes, it was used, as I visited the park soon after opening and went on the attraction several times. HOWEVER, it was removed due to complaints from the French guests. If I made any spelling errors in the update, feel free to correct them. --The Manator E 19:27, 8 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The Ghost Host is listed as being "Paul Frees" which is false. It was Thurl Ravenscroft, who also sings the main HM theme (he is the one on the tombstone wit the dark hair & moustache)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.195.61 (talk) 22:57, 30 April 2014 (UTC)


 * If you provide a reference for that it can be added to the article. Thanks, Bahooka (talk) 23:00, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Backstory or Fancruff?
The Backstory Section contains this intresting lead: As a wikipedian this really concerns me, as this implies that we're not actually getting the imagineer's backstory but rather one some (possibly non notable) fan site came up with, I suggest we eithier remove this section or get the facts from a more reliable source. -Deathawk 23:02, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The story behind the ghosts of the Haunted Mansion, while having many theories, as well as even some names, has never been completely set in stone. However, one common story, according to the writers of at least one fan site, goes as follows


 * Agreed - There certainly is a backstory, but surely not this detailed. Marc Davis, one of the imagineers who worked on the HM is quoted as saying about the ride (http://www.doombuggies.com/insiders_davis.htm) "this was not a story telling medium. These attractions at Disneyland and Disney World are experiences - but they are not stories!". While this stuff is based on elements of the ride I don't think there's a place for what amounts to fan-fiction in an article like this. Flubbit 15:02, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I say get rid of the backstory or at least replace it with info on the stories from the SLG comic as well as the new story, reported here at MiceAge to be added to Disneyland's Mansion ==FigmentJedi 00:41, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I disagree. There is a definite storyline, even though the implementation doesn't quite make it obvious. The SLG comic has some nice touches, but it doesn't connect at all with the Imagineers' intent. --Joe Sewell 17:56, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The story is an amalgome of different designers. Ultimately, the mansion does not have a straightforward story.   However, whoever wrote the storyline for the attraction had a good degree of imagination.  the only basic concepts are that the house is cursed, the rooms change, the narrirator hung himself, ghosts found the mansion a refuge, Leota, trapped in the crysal ball has mystical talent enough to summon the dead, the dead are playful (party scene, graveyard scene), and ghosts want a way out (hitchhiking ghosts).


 * I also agree, fan fiction does not belong in an encylopedia article, especially not at this length. — Walloon 16:27, 10 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I put in a disclaimer before the 'backstory', and I'm sure no one would object to it either. --Tme2nsb 21:14, 11 May 2006 (UTC)


 * That doesn't change the fact that there's no references, and fanfiction does not belong ANYWHERE in the article. --InShaneee 00:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

There have been multiple additions of names from fan fiction. I hesitate to revert these as other edits will be lost in the process. Is someone going to have to comb through the whole article to clean up this mess or is there an easier way? Ste3ve 00:39, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Architectural style
I have changed the reference to the Magic Kingdom version being in a "New England" style. It is clearly designed in a Gothic Revival style, which originated in England and Northern Europe and can be found throughout the Eastern seaboard in the U.S., and inland as well. While early planning for the Disneyland Haunted Mansion in the 1950s included an appearance by the Headless Horseman from The Legend of Sleepy Hollow, that story is set along the Hudson River in New York, not in New England. In fact, one of the themes of that story is the cultural contrast between the Yankee Ichabod Crane from Connecticut and the Dutch farmers of Sleepy Hollow. And nobody lives in a mansion in that tale; the prosperous Van Tassel farmhouse is nearest thing (and that's not very near!). — Walloon 00:07, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

A reference was recently added to the Harry Packer Mansion in Jim Thorpe, PA., claiming that the WDW mansion design was based on this. Images at doombuggies.com (http://www.doombuggies.com/history2.htm) clearly show that both the California and Florida mansions' exteriors were very closely based on photos and drawings from the WDI library. Some design elements and details may have been inspired by the Packer Mansion (and, in Disneyland's case, the Evergreen House at Johns Hopkins) but I wonder if the text and link added are an attempt to attract traffic to the Packer Mansion's website. Ste3ve 22:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

No to the last point. The Harry Packer Mansion has been falsely cited as the inspiration for the Mansion, and the 'fact' accepted by many, for at least 15 years or more. It's not a conspiracy to direct traffic to the website.

The Spaces
Why are there so many blank gaps in this article? It wasn't there before :-X Small5th

Attraction Facts
The Attraction Facts indicates that the Haunted Mansion is an "E" ticket ride. Although this may be historically accurate, Disneyland has not sold letterd tickets for attractions in some time. Perhaps this historical fact should be moved to "Facts and Trivia." — A2Z 19:42, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

2006 Attic Update
I removed any speculation about the bride being connected to the old room with the rose in the stretching room. This has not been confirmed nor denied. It does not belong in the wiki because this is only speculation, and speculation does not belong in the wiki. Let's try to keep theories out of this (although with the disclaimer, we can keep the fanfiction 'backstory', I suppose.) Also, let's please leave out rumours of the Hatbox Ghost. No one has ever mentioned it as part of the update, so, until we hear some hard news, it does not need to be mentioned. All of the future updates in the addition into Leota's scene and the Hitchhiking Ghosts has been confirmed by several sources close to Disney. (please don't correct my grammar. please :P) --Tme2nsb 22:26, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * There are a lot of speculations in this article. Each statement of fact, including the names of the people in the portrait and the name of the bride need to be verified and cited.  The citations are listed below as bulleted items, but they should be cited in the article itself.  If anyone has these references in their possession, please update them correctly. Bytebear 00:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Audio drama
I am very suprised that there is no mention of the radio drama that Ron Howard did back in the 1970s. This story was orginally put out in LP form and several years ago the drama was put on cassett tape for Halloween and an anniversary CD was created and sold in the parks. This information should have been included!!! Tpen 22:09, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should make clear here that what you call a "radio drama" was not created for radio, but for an LP record album. "Audio drama" would be a better term. The title of the album was The Story and Song from the Haunted Mansion, released by Disneyland Records in 1969. The reissue on cassette in 1998 was titled A Spooky Night In Disney's Haunted Mansion. More at the Doombuggies website. — Walloon 22:22, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

A little known fact about the radio drama. If you listen to the scene where the two teens enter the banquet hall, just before the organ plays... you can hear the song the magpies in Dumbo sing "When I see an Elephant Fly". The laughter is distinctly audible. Quite a fasinating bit of trivia. —Tpen 01:16, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not a radio drama. — Walloon 23:13, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Soundtrack
I tried to organize the audio for the Haunted Mansion into a new section while adding a bit of info, I hope I did it right. --blm07 01:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Attraction infobox
I put in the attraction infobox recommended by Wikiproject Disneyland. Disneyfile 22:40, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Missing Link
At the end of the graveyard section under "The Attraction," the article mentions a "Hidden Mickey." There is a wikipedia article for hidden mickey, and I would think that this should link to it. I'm new here, and while I'm sure I could figure it out, I don't want to mess it up.


 * I added this link. Ste3ve 22:42, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

April/December Portrait
A note that the April/December portrait has appeared in the planter outside Pirates of the Caribbean was removed as vandalism, however this is true. The portrait was removed from the hallway of changing portraits in the mansion and replaced by a version of the portrait (commonly referred to as "Master Gracey") from the foyer of the Florida mansion when the changing portrait effects were updated. The April/December portrait would not work with the new effect methodology, but the "Master Gracey" portrait was adapted to work successfully. The issue is that the newer effect needs the "changed" version of the portrait to be white, as the effect is done using light projected through the "original" version of the portrait. As part of the redressing of Pirates of the Caribbean and New Orleans Square in general, a pile of pirate booty was installed outside the pirates attraction. Prominent among the loot was a copy of the "April" or before portrait from April/December. Ste3ve 22:53, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the comment on this. A problem with this article in general is that it does not cite WP:RS for many of the statements in it.  With a topic like this, where much of the information may come from informal sources, it can be hard to tell what is fact from what is fiction.  Is there any way to improve the sourcing on this page in general? Buddhipriya 00:21, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Recent additions
There have been multiple additions of names from fan fiction. I hesitate to revert these as other edits will be lost in the process. Is someone going to have to comb through the whole article to clean up this mess or is there an easier way? Ste3ve 00:39, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Sourcing has been a problem with this article for quite some time, as evidenced by the myriad of discussions here. I have tried to clean-up some of the most recent unsourced additions that you noted, but the entire article still needs major work.
 * My opinion is that unless some decent sources are found fairly quickly for all of the {fact} tagged info, then that info should be removed per WP:Verifiability and WP:No original research. -- Satori Son 02:17, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Harry Packer mansion
"''This version of the mansion was modeled after an actual home located in the north east Pennsylvanian town of Jim Thorpe." ref name="The Harry Packer Mansion" The Harry Packer Mansion http://www.murdermansion.com/index.html Fact|date=May 2007'' The Doombuggies website does say that "Back around 1970, some WED Imagineers visited Jim Thorpe, Pennsylvania and studied the Harry Packer Mansion," but clearly they did not end up using the Packer Mansion as basis for the Haunted Mansion in the Magic Kingdom. The Packer Mansion bears no architectural similarity to the Haunted Mansion. The Haunted Mansion was designed in Gothic revival style. The Packer Mansion was designed in Second Empire style (note the Mansard roof), with a Romanesque porch. There is nothing Gothic about the Packer Mansion, architectually. — Walloon 18:37, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Haunted Mansion.png
Image:Haunted Mansion.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:41, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

THE Haunted Mansion
I see this article might have been renamed "The Haunted Mansion", why did it change to just "Haunted Mansion"? "The Haunted Mansion" is correct, isn't it? -- blm07 01:58, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I totally agree. -- Valerius Myotis 05:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Totally agreed. It says "The Hanuted Mansion" on the ride's sign. Somebody should should this ASAP.RdCrestdBreegull (talk) 05:44, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Hanted Mansion in Long Branch, NJ
there was also a haunted mansion in long branch new jersey; any nyc-area kid of the 70s will remember the ads. perhaps some mention should be made of it - http://www.darkinthepark.com/Haunted%20Mansion/History/lbhistory.htm

Urban Legend
Altougth this may sound incorrect,several cast members from the ride have reported that they`ve seen a figure flowing around in the ride at nigth.The "ghost" is reported being a man with a hat and a coat.orlandounited.com have reported this legend,and even come up with photographic proof. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.235.144.148 (talk) 15:09, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Clean-up
Wow, I've been gone a while but it appears that this article has accumulated a lot of fan cruft and badly in need of copyediting. Lots of trivia and personal input and research placed in the article. I started to cleanup a little bit... more to come. :) Tiggerjay (talk) 02:40, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Agree. There is no citation in the first 5 paragraphs, although there are references to what Walt said or did. Without citation or proof, it seems to be just legend, not encyclopedic information. Cactusjump (talk) 20:27, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Complete Restructuring
I'm in the process of gathering information together to help this article along. I suggest that some of these sections be either separated in to other articles or completely removed. Especially the sections with these italicized justifications under them:
 * The following scenes are common to all versions of the attraction except The Phantom Manor...
 * The following are elements that are unique to each particular attraction.

If they need justification, perhaps they should be made another article or at least cleaned up. Cactusjump (talk) 00:42, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I would agree the page probably needs to be restructured, maybe separate pages for each ride. As the one who created the "common elements" and "unique elements" sections I did so mainly, as one who has only seen the Orlando version, to better know the differences between all the versions. Bwallace1701 (talk) 18:51, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I wonder if a chart comparing the differences and similarities would be useful? Just trying to find a way to make it more comprehensive. Cactusjump (talk) 18:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Mystic Point: Hong Kong's Haunted Mansion?
Before this gets out of hand (I've had to revert this twice in the last 24 hours), let's open the floor to discussion on Mystic Point. In case you have no idea what's being discussed, please read this article that mentions a major expansion to Hong Kong Disneyland. One of the sections is called "Mystic Point," and the description provided for its signature attraction seems to suggest a new interpretation of the Haunted Mansion. The key words here are "seems to suggest," because nothing in the initial information calls this a "Haunted Mansion." It may well be, but saying so now would be speculation and conjecture.

In the end, it probably is Hong Kong's version of the Mansion, with a localized supernatural story, much as The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror was given a new back-story for Tokyo DisneySea. Although in that particular case, the ride system is virtually identical to the existing American Towers, making the conclusion much easier to draw. In this case, it'd be a guess with pretty good odds of being right ... but still a guess.

--McDoobAU93 (talk) 13:57, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Opening date of mansion
The article says: and then some "soft" openings when park guests were allowed to ride on August 9th, 10th and 11th, even though it was not advertised as being open.

But in fact, it appears that it was advertised as per this ad in the LA Times.

A complete discussion of this can be found on the Doombuggies forum.

Recommendation is to remove the text about not being advertised. The official opening date as recognized by Disney is Aug 9th 1969.

-- Gordon (talk) 18:30, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Two Octagonal Rooms?
Been a while since I've been there, but I was always under the impression there were two octagonal rooms at DL, presumably to increase traffic flow. True, and if so, should it be mentioned in the article?--NapoliRoma (talk) 13:58, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Definitely two at WDW. PurpleChez (talk) 19:39, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

basic and differences
This article is containing 2 sections titled "The Basic attraction" and "Differences between attractions". Both of these sections are taking up a lot of space in this article and making it very long. Additionally the info in the basic section mostly relates to the California attraction than all the others. I think we should shorten and change the sections. trainfan01 —Preceding undated comment added 03:13, 13 May 2010 (UTC).


 * I agree with this assessment. Here's what I'm thinking: Many of the other multi-park attractions discuss the original location, then the variations on the subsequent installs. Here, the main discussion should be on Disneyland's version, since it was first. Discussions of the later versions should be limited to scenes exclusive to that attraction (such as Magic Kingdom's new staircase room). Maybe a table that mentions each scene (short description) and which parks' Mansions have it. Something to clean this up ... other ideas? --McDoobAU93 (talk) 03:40, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I have added "Disneyland" in backets to the basic attraction title to have it make more sense that way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trainfan01 (talk • contribs) 13:57, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

interesting source
http://travel.latimes.com/daily-deal-blog/index.php/disneyland’s-999/ Cheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.148.109.156 (talk) 15:14, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Link to commercial site, not fan site
The link to HauntedPortraits.com is not a link to a fan site. It's a commercial site trying to use the Haunted Mansion to sell their scary photoshopped antique pictures (though their misspellings of names from the HM is unintentionally funny) and the "blueprints" are public domain images, greyed out, with their logo covering the middle. If you want high-res ones, you have to sign up for their sales newsletter. Doombuggies.com is a fan site. HauntedPortraits.com is most definitely not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.128.35.29 (talk) 00:15, 26 July 2011 (UTC)