Talk:The Hope of Glory

Helpful?
--- Another Believer ( Talk ) 18:40, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
 * https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/jon-meacham-explores-the-last-words-of-jesus-from-the-cross-79523909862
 * https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/news/last-words-of-jesus-are-focus-of-jon-meachams-new-book-the-hope-of-glory/vp-BB10tzsQ
 * https://www.today.com/video/last-words-of-jesus-are-focus-of-jon-meacham-s-new-book-the-hope-of-glory-79528005689
 * https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/25/opinion/christianity-trump.html

Requested move 6 March 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved — Wug·a·po·des​ 01:00, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

The Hope of Glory → The Hope of Glory: Reflections on the Last Words of Jesus from the Cross – This is the correct name of the book, as per the first line of the article. That name already redirects to this page. The short title can redirect to this for now, but Goodreads lists 129 books with "The Hope of Glory" as an element of the title, including multiple books denoted by that name alone. The Hope of Glory is also a theological concept, so it is likely that a disambiguation page would eventually be required. This new book is just one in a long list of works with the title, some notable, others not. It is WP:TOSOON to assert that this book is so notable it deserves the primary use of the term. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 11:49, 6 March 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. Jerm (talk) 00:28, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Support. I'd usually prefer the shorter title per WP:CONCISE, but I'm convinced by the above argument that the shorter title does not provide "sufficient information to identify the topic to a person familiar with the general subject area", the subtitle is not that long, and it's a WP:NATURALDIS. 85.238.91.68 (talk) 05:42, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment. There's a shortish DAB at Hope and Glory, and I appreciate that "hope of glory" is not quite the same thing, but were we to need disambiguation, it would probably serve to do it there. 85.238.91.68 (talk) 06:15, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Subtitle is way too long to be practical. Even if this has to be disambiguated, something like "(Meacham book)" would be much better. Since there isn't any other "The Hope of Glory" article, it isn't necessary for now. Nohomersryan (talk) 17:32, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree with Nohomersryan. I'm not sure why moving is necessary if there are no other notable subjects called "The Hope of Glory". --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 18:38, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Support I agree withSirfurboy🏄 that the page should be moved. The title would be longer but it is more accurate and saves the lower level title for a more topical article on the subject. Alternatively I also suggest "The Hope of Glory (Book)" 64.22.253.219 (talk) 16:19, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose. No reason to move in terms of WP:AT. If an article on the theological concept is eventually created, then revisit the need to disambiguate. But the book is so recent, and the current article so short, that it's more likely that the theology will be best dealt with as a section of the article on the book for some time to come anyway. Andrewa (talk) 15:42, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The other books listed on Goodreads who share the title "The Hope of Glory" do not appear to be as notable as Meacham's, nor do their authors. The only exception is a book by Sam Storms, and even that appears to immediately fail WP:BKCRIT. As for it also being "a theological concept", would the title capitalization of the article on that concept match that of Meacham's book? Are you referring to "Christ in you, the hope of Glory"? Would the article created on that concept truncate that phrase solely to "the hope of Glory"? Would it even include the definite article (The) that begins the title ("hope of Glory" instead)? All these questions seem useless to me since I was under the impression we didn't disambiguate article titles based on what other possible articles could potentially be created. I grieve in stereo (talk) 02:29, 24 March 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.