Talk:The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes

Informal RM
I haven't committed to the idea yet, but I'm curious as to what others think. Is The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes a suitable title for this film, with the ampersand being used as the WP:SMALLDETAIL to distinguish from the book? InfiniteNexus (talk) 05:09, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Character articles for Coriolanus Snow and Lucy Gray Baird?
Should we make articles for Coriolanus Snow and Lucy Gray? They're quite notable especially Snow. HiGuys69420 (talk) 20:54, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Net Production Budget
According to Deadline, the film had a production cost of $100 million and got $20 million in tax credits. I quote: " . . . at a $100M-plus production cost, 65% of which is funded by foreign sales with another $20M in German tax credits, . . . ". The budgets for films are net production budgets, so displaying the gross budget would be a misrepresentation of the actual budget. This is how budgets are displayed for other films, as well as on pages like List of most expensive films. - Rajan51 (talk) 18:40, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Rajan said "The budgets for films are net production budgets" which Wikipedia guidelines says that? That's Hollywood accounting, this is supposed to be an encyclopedia. The price you pay is the price. If you get a rebate later that does not change the price you had to spend up front. The reliable source Deadline Hollywood specifically says "$100M-plus production cost" (then they mention rebates, and more important they explain that Lionsgate presold 65% the foreign distribution rights to further reduce their costs and risk. I hope no one would suggest deducting 65% too.) Please note carefully that Deadline aren't even saying the budget was exactly $100 million, and they aren't saying that the rebates were $20 million exactly either ($20M+ in German tax credits, Rajan omitted the + when he quoted this text), it is not a clear and simple WP:CALC. This is probably all being estimated and converted from German tax documents in (€) Euro, if anyone locates those documents we might be able to get more specific about it.
 * Template:Infobox_film budget If there are conflicting estimates, do not cherry-pick; list each estimate either as an individual value or as a number range. Do not use primary sources to corroborate budget figures. When applicable, add "gross" and "net" parenthetically beside the figure(s) It is allowed to post a budget range. It is allowed to post the net budget figure, but if you do that it must be clearly marked. Please also note WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE "the purpose of an Infobox: to summarize (and not supplant) key facts that appear in the article" and that first the article body should mention the conflicting budget figures. Editors should not be trying to pick the "right" answer, do not presume that earlier figures are wrong, a film may have been greenlit at a certain budget and then the budget later increased, or had a cost overrun. Different sources may be including or omitting the cost of reshoots (in the case of Mad Max Fury Road there was a court case about exactly this budget difference). Please focus on improving the article body, the Infobox is there to summarize. -- 109.79.67.116 (talk) 19:36, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Per Template:Infobox film: When applicable, add "gross" and "net" parenthetically beside the figure(s). We should not remove the gross cost in favor of the net cost.  This probably should be made into a note or something similar, so readers are not confused.  Mike   Allen   21:20, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * There were a few ancient Project Film discussions about this, but this policy never really got hashed out in any detail. There were only really a few editors, User:TropicAces in particular, that were making most of these "net budget" edits anyway. The more frequent problem was editors cherry picking one figure over another. Fundamentally the answer is to first improve the article body to explain things more clearly, before doing anything to the Infobox or lead section. -- 109.79.67.116 (talk) 21:25, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I found the most recent discussion from May 2023 on this here. After looking through the production section, there is no mention of the budget figures. I agree with you that the article body needs to be expanded with this information, not the infobox (which is not what the infobox is for).  Mike  Allen   21:56, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Note: the article briefly listed the budget range $100-130 million but the figure $130 was inserted without any explanation, it does not seem to be supported by any reliable sources (the anon IP may have been making assumptions based on the budget of the previous films). The best available budget figure is $100 million reported by Deadline and The-Numbers.com (Box Office Mojo does not list a budget figure). -- 109.79.67.116 (talk) 19:49, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

User:Realmen15 decided to add net budget and gross budget figures to the infobox. Unfortunately this was not based on any new sources, still the same Deadline source saying "a $100M-plus production cost".

User:TropicAces reverted the change, saying it was not clear if the $100 figure reported by Deadline represented the net budget figure with rebates already deducted, or not.

Again these sorts of calculations are never as a simple as they might seem, and it does not benefit readers of this encyclopedia to to overcomplicate the Infobox. Better to list the headline figure in the Infobox as the reliable source reports, and explain further whatever other details you feel would benefit from clarification in the article body. (I have added the budget to the Box office section, including an explanation of why Deadline said the break even point might be relatively low.) -- 109.79.67.116 (talk) 19:12, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Note about the Capitol Zoo in Plot section
Putting 7 words, "riding with her to the Capitol Zoo", in the Plot section, helps clarify what happened, and is far shorter than the version in the article about the book which has, "Trying to get ahead of his competition, Coriolanus meets Lucy Gray at the Capitol train station and in the process is accidentally locked up in the tributes’ cabin. While trapped, Lucy Gray dissuades the other tributes from killing him. The tributes are put on display in the Capitol Zoo to humiliate them". And I cut out more characters than I added, as often happens. The addition may be no less useful than other things in the Plot section, such as the arguably-too-long Clemensia Dovecote section. John315 (talk) 06:54, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Normal rounding of numbers
The box office gross according to The-Numbers.com was $206,830,521 and this number normally rounds to either $207 million or $206.830 million. Truncating this number to $206 million is not normal rounding,(diff) edit summary "fix" it is inaccurate and misleading and a failure to follow MOS:LARGENUM. There is no need to accuse another editor of disruptive editing for actually following the guidelines. -- 109.77.196.243 (talk) 19:01, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Again, truncating $143.9 million to $143 million is mathematically inaccurate and misleading (diff) (and just plain unnecessary). There seem to be multiple editors presenting box office gross numbers inconsistently in this way for no apparent reason and I have raised the question with WP:FILM. See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Film -- 109.77.196.243 (talk) 20:54, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

I don't understand why editors think inconsistently truncating the box office gross figures is an improvement.(diff) -- 109.79.68.151 (talk) 07:30, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Note about Lucky Flickerman being the grandfather to Caesar Flickerman
Francis Lawrence confirms in an interview with Andy Cohen that Lucky is the grandfather. https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8m2at9S/ Jersies23 (talk) 07:21, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Can you provide a text based reference from a reliable source instead of a video? Video references are bad. -- 109.76.193.204 (talk) 16:10, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
 * No text based reference is available but the video is posted from the official social media channel of the television show in which the comment was made Jersies23 (talk) 15:05, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You could add it as a video citation cite AV media, but if you do please make sure to indicate at what timestamp in the video the relevant information occurs to help other editors who might try and check reference (WP:V) [PS Nevermind, the interview mentioned was only 30 seconds long, but as a general rule a timestamp is essential, video references are PITA to check]. (I avoid video references like the plague and use them only as a last resort because frankly WP:LINKROT is a plague.) They're both called Flickerman, the implication seems trivial. -- 109.79.68.151 (talk) 07:23, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Why aren’t we calling TBOSAS a musical?
Title. Jaydenwithay (talk) 23:01, 1 February 2024 (UTC)