Talk:The Intercontinental Derby (football)

Rivality between these two teams is not just in football. Basketball, Voleyball and some other branches should be included.

Pool and Cups
These clubs existed before 1959 and they have also a history before this date. Professionalism has been accepted this date and some friends just added cup history of teams after this date. It is wrong. We cannot chuck out this history.

Also I have added a pool that has more than 1 million participants (1.4 million participants). The older had just 3600 participants.95.15.167.177 (talk) 10:32, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Please stop removing references! Sisman Yanko (talk) 05:26, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Look at other derbies. Defunct / regional competitions are not counted. And only Istanbull Football League, Istanbul Shield, Istanbul Cup, Basbakan, Milli Küme and Turkish Football Championship were off. competions 1886kusagi (talk) 08:33, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Kıtalar arası derbi? Who invented this "title" for wiki entry?
this is simply "Fenerbahçe-Galatasaray derby". it doesnt have a special name like "El Clásico"

just look at newspapers, books, magazines, websites, forums and the way people name this derby... probably %0.01 of people in Turkey call this as "kıtalar arası derbi"

Agreed, I'm changing the title to "Fenerbahçe-Galatasaray rivalry". --Mttll (talk) 04:41, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

LardoBalsamico, please explain why you reverted my move of the article. --Mttll (talk) 14:18, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Just check the sources before making any changes. Thanks.LardoBalsamico (talk) 14:52, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Just because the title has been used sometimes doesn't mean it's the most common way to refer to this rivalry. --Mttll (talk) 03:12, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

is it common? according to who? i've never met a single person who called this as "Kıtalar Arası Derbi". why do you feel you have an obligation to find a name to this derby? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.102.174.173 (talk) 12:03, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fenerbah%C3%A7e%E2%80%93Galatasaray_rivalry&diff=720719408&oldid=719477283 where is the source????? Akocsg ruined this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.41.78.40 (talk) 15:15, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

1914-15 Istanbul League
In the 1914–15 Istanbul Football League article numerous sources were added which proof that there were two leagues/groups organized that season and thus there were two champions. The sources:

Actually, in some of these sources there is the extra information that there was a play-off match between those two clubs to decide the true champion and the right to claim the Istanbul shield. According to these references Fenerbahce won that match 3-1, so there is actually only one winner. That woud make it 16-14 titles, and not 16-15 as it is now.Akocsg (talk) 15:03, 19 September 2017 (UTC)


 * The "final match" you said was just the league match of the 1915-1916 season


 * Here is the list of mackolik, which uses historical documents
 * http://www.mackolik.com/Puan-Durumu/s=15826/Turkiye-Istanbul-Ligi


 * A screnshot from milliyet newspaer archive from 08.09.1965:
 * https://imgur.com/XvNqgbH


 * 1886kusagi (talk) 20:02, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Mackolik is a website about betting and livescores. A reference to "historical documents" is nowhere to be seen. It hardly seems like a serious and reliable source, in accordance with Wiki standards.

About the final match; there are at least three different sources listed by me claiming otherwise, while there is only one source (a newspaper) claiming the opposite. But one thing is sure: there were two parallel groups played in that season. Akocsg (talk) 14:50, 18 September 2017 (UTC)


 * But what about the so-called final match?
 * It was the normal match of the 1915-1916 season.
 * 1886kusagi (talk) 18:09, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

As I said, most of my sources state that it was the final match (the Union of Turkish football researchers TFAB, amongst others), not a regular match of the 1915-16 season. I personally don't know either. As there is no final proof I will let it stay as it is (16 to 15 titles) now, which is the fairest way I think. The record 16 titles of FB are certain anyway, so it isn't that important. If I should by chance find more sources, then I can change it at a later point.Akocsg (talk) 15:03, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Honours
Wouldn't it be better to only write down official trophies? Redman19 (talk) 12:01, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Indeed. I removed all unofficial titles such as the Fleet Cup, TSYD Cup etc. Akocsg (talk) 12:15, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

7-0 edit war
As you all may have noticed, there is an edit war going on regarding a game of football in 1911 which ended 7-0. Such a match was played, however the things being fabricated are little side issues such as how many players both clubs had fielded. Since the TFF didn't exist at the time it is pretty logical that they don't recognize the score, it was an Istanbul League match after all, the TFF also doesn't recognize the Isanbul Football League titles for example. The scoreline of that game wasn't fabricated, such scores were common back then just like two other matches from the same time period which ended 6-0 and 5-0, kind regards. Redman19 (talk) 12:40, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The TFF recognizes the istanbul football leuge titles of Beşiktaş. ~𝓐𝓭𝓲𝓰𝓪𝓫𝓻𝓮𝓴 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓕𝓲𝓻𝓼𝓽~ Contact  13:41, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Those weren’t regional titles, this match we speak about has been included into many books about Fenerbahce including Rustu Daglaroglus book where this event is described according to players who played in this game, the fans denying such a game took place aren’t aware of the books. Never heard of 7-1 to be honest, the scoreline that I am aware of is 7-0, the score is correct, what Galatasaray has been fabricating for years is that they pulled it off with seven against 10, the event isn’t described like that in Rustu Daglaroglus book. Redman19 (talk) 17:18, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

As it was mentioned in Dağlaroğlu's book and an article in a newspaper in 1965, there are no doubts that this match ended in a 7-0 victory for Galatasaray. There are several problems with Fenerbahçe's claim, though.

1. What Fenerbahçe claims about this match is based on an interview in 1973 with Hulki Kutluk, who was claimed to be one of the founders and first goalkeepers of Fenerbahçe. However; he doesn't appear in the match squad, nor in anything else than this interview (there is a possibility that I couldn't get the information about him as well).

2. In that interview, it was claimed that Galatasaray finished the match with 10 men, but no one is able to say who Galatasaray's other three men are.

I think it is more likely that this match happened as Galatasaray stated. --Isvind (talk) 13:35, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Here we go again
I have something to say about the last changes by Adigabrek. (S)he claims that outcome of the 7-0 match is disputed and "critics of the story defined it as nonsense, a fairytale, fantasy, almost like a folk legend". However, as it happened before when (s)he claimed the match ended as 7-1, there is no source given for his/her claims and (s)he also includes POV by writing "has been popularised after Fenerbahçe's 6-0 victory". --Isvind (talk) 17:47, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 June 2021
Isvind (talk) 09:10, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

I explained what I have to above.
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:16, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * , I don't believe we can establish one. As I mentioned several times before, (s)he claims something and doesn't back his/her claims with any evidence and when asked for it, (s)he refuses to answer. Now that the article is extended confirmed, (s)he can manipulate the section for his/her POV, and I just ask for deleting the POV parts and giving another source.--Isvind (talk) 11:36, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * , I removed the "critics of the story" sentence as it was uncited. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:43, 17 June 2021 (UTC)